Tom Brady, NFLPA Granted 14-Day Extension To File Motion For Rehearing By Second Circuit Court

[Rusty Griswold]

They wanted it in NY because otherwise the NFLPA would have filed in CA8 where the NFL gets their asses handed to them on a regular basis.

As much as I hate the NFL, I do not believe they engaged in the federal crime of bribing a judge, nor do I believe that *2* federal judges engaged in the federal crime of taking a bribe.

Do you realize the NFL was so sloppy in filing their case in the NY court, in fear of the NFLPA getting it field in Minnesota with Doty, that they forgot to sign their own paperwork?

Don't be so naive. The fact Kessler wasn't even allowed to speak, points to Chin and Parker being paid off as underlings to Katzmann. They knew Katzmann couldn't be bought.

 

[Rusty Griswold]

Is everyone aware that Ginsburg is the SC Justice overseeing the 2nd circuit? Unless you've been under a rock, which clearly Goodell never thought it might go to her at this point, this is a huge piece of leverage for Brady.

Ginsburg is liberal and would be ruling on a landmark case, as I've said from the beginning. This goes way beyond the NFL bubble. It would then be about employee rights and employees being set up for violations they didn't commit, for ulterior motives, namely financial gains and ego, power and greed.

This is huge. I was mocked for my opinion on this on Boston Globe board, as I have been for other opinions there for years, but in the end, I am usually correct.

I'll repeat this one more time: Goodell doesn't want his hand anywhere near a bible under oath in front of a SCOUTUS hearing. Nowhere near it, which is why I believe the owners DID want Brady to settle AFTER Goodell's win last month. They are wrong in thinking Brady would ever settle, which has to have them crapping in their pants.

That's why Goodell quickly came out and publicly stated "we are not settling". He thinks it's over right now, but he's mistaken, as are his attorneys.

Brady has the leverage here.

It's in Sheriff Goebbels's best interest to somehow lose with it kicked back hearing only at the 2nd court level, with a stay and En Banc, as opposed to sit in front of Ginsburg answering for a fraud Wells Report he and Pash engineered and doctored.

However, if he does lose, Brady will never take anything less than 0 games, where Kraft was promised last May.

Unbelievable.

Brady will never be suspended, but we got cheated out of a 1st rd pick again (and a 4th), and Kraft had money stolen again.

I don't see how Goodell survives this. Then again,l I thought for sure he'd be canned after the Rice Fiasco.

If I was an NFL owner, I would scapegoat Goodell to save face, and try to keep footing into the next CBA.

If Goodell loses, and stays on, the NFLPA has the leverage with a strike in tow, for 2020.

A strike would severely ruin Jax getting to London and those plans of expansion.

I am assuming the union knows this.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I keep asking the question: why not MA federal court?

I haven't researched the "first to file rule" but it was my understanding that if each side filed in different venues on the same day, then a balancing test would apply. MA has much more connection to the suit then Minnesota. Brady lives there. The events giving rise to the action took place in MA. Minnesota has nothing but a friendly judge in Doty making its choice flagrant forum shopping. NY is simply where the NFL corporate offices are located. I think MA wins if the issue was pressed.

Am I wrong?

Well, they couldn't have done any better than Judge Berman at the first level. In fact, of the 17 judges (besides the Chief) on the US District Court for the District of Massachusetts, seven were appointed by Nixon, Reagan or one Bush or the other, so there was no assurance that the lottery would even have given them even as good a Judge as Berman.

Any appeal would have gone to the US Court of Appeals for the First Circuit, which sits in Boston. So, at the Appeals level, they might have had a better chance, but, you can never tell.

In any event, that's all academic.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Is everyone aware that Ginsburg is the SC Justice overseeing the 2nd circuit. Unless you've been under a rock, which clearly Goodell never thought it might go to her at this point, this is a huge piece of leverage for Brady.

The only practical thing "overseeing" means is that she's the one the NFLPA would seek an emergency stay from if CA2 denies a request for en banc review or upholds the suspension after en banc review. And even there, the odds are that she'd just refer the request to the full court (which is very standard procedure) after perhaps issuing a temporary stay to give the court the chance to consider the stay request.

I'll repeat this one more time: Goodell doesn't want his hand anywhere near a bible under oath in front of a SCOUTUS hearing.

That ain't happening. Appellate level stuff (whether at the Circuit Court level or at SCOTUS) has no live witnesses. There won't be any other new testimony, either, so don't waste your time dreaming about depositions or the like. The only thing the briefs and arguments will be about is the contents of the record below and the lower court's interpretations/findings of law.

 

[Ivan]

Is everyone aware that Ginsburg is the SC Justice overseeing the 2nd circuit? Unless you've been under a rock, which clearly Goodell never thought it might go to her at this point, this is a huge piece of leverage for Brady.





I'll repeat this one more time: Goodell doesn't want his hand anywhere near a bible under oath in front of a SCOUTUS hearing.

They don't call witnesses at the Supreme Court.


And lower court rulings stand in the case of ties, so right now the likelihood is that any CAII ruling would stand if it went to the Supreme's, which is doubtful given that they are currently kicking cases back rather than taking them shorthanded.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Do you realize the NFL was so sloppy in filing their case in the NY court, in fear of the NFLPA getting it field in Minnesota with Doty, that they forgot to sign their own paperwork?

Don't be so naive. The fact Kessler wasn't even allowed to speak, points to Chin and Parker being paid off as underlings to Katzmann. They knew Katzmann couldn't be bought.

If you're really committed to your belief in that regard, then the guy you want to contact is the very ambitious US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Preet Bharara. You can print out a Fillable Report Form (Report A Crime | USAO-SDNY | Department of Justice) and send it to him anonymously at:

United States Attorney's Office
Southern District of New York
Attn: Civilian Crime Reports Unit (Criminal Division)
One St. Andrew's Plaza
New York, NY 10007

Bharara shows every indication of being as politically ambitious as one of his predecessors in his job, Rudy Giuliani. He has put several high profile people behind bars and is currently going after the Mayor of New York City, but a corrupt federal judge would get major headlines, so if you can substantiate your charge, have at it!

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Question I've raised before about Brady's potential suspension:
Is it already stayed until the appeals process is exhausted or does the NFLPA have to formally request a stay?
Just academically curious. Does anyone know?

Berman vacated the suspension. CA2 ordered Berman to dissolve his vacatur of the suspension. Berman won't act on that order until the relevant deadlines pass.

If the NFLPA petitions for en banc review the CA2 order will likely continue to be held in abeyance (though I don't believe it has to be) and the suspension will continue to be vacated. I don't know if the NFLPA needs to formally request a stay of the CA2 order in conjunction with the en banc request.

If CA2 grants en banc review that actually vacates the decision of the Chin/Parker/Katzmann panel and wipes out the CA2 order to Berman. So at that point no need to ask for any stay before the en banc ruling.

If the en banc CA2 finds for the NFL it will issue an order to Berman to dissolve his vacatur. If the NFLPA intends to seek certiorari from SCOTUS it will need to ask CA2 to stay its order if CA2 doesn't do that on its own.

If CA2 refuses to stay its order, the NFLA will have to ask SCOTUS for a stay pending SCOTUS's decision on the certiorari petition. That will be made via Ginsburg, but IIRC it is standard practice for the "overseeing" justices to refer such petitions to the full court. If SCOTUS denies certiorari (the decision to accept or deny can take months, BTW) the case is over. If they accept they will likely extend their stay of CA2's order (though again, the NFLPA might have to formally request it).

 

[Rusty Griswold]

The only practical thing "overseeing" means is that she's the one the NFLPA would seek an emergency stay from if CA2 denies a request for en banc review or upholds the suspension after en banc review. And even there, the odds are that she'd just refer the request to the full court (which is very standard procedure) after perhaps issuing a temporary stay to give the court the chance to consider the stay request.



That ain't happening. Appellate level stuff (whether at the Circuit Court level or at SCOTUS) has no live witnesses. There won't be any other new testimony, either, so don't waste your time dreaming about depositions or the like. The only thing the briefs and arguments will be about is the contents of the record below and the lower court's interpretations/findings of law.

Disagree.

The entire key to this whole thing, which for whatever reason has been glossed over, is for Olson to get the NFL back to answering for the Wells Report itself.

Goodell's entire premise for leaning on the "absolute power" line, which is true, is being propped up against a series of lies, 56 to be exact. That is the source of why he is ruling the way he is, but if what he is ruling on is a falsified document and not independent, it cannot stand.

Katzmann also cited this along with Berman.

Berman, the Chief 2nd Circiut Judge ruled in favor of Brady. Ginsburg is Berman's boss, so to speak. So, do the math.

Berman ruled in favor of Brady based on he idea the Wells Report made no sense.

Get it?

The only reason the narrative shifted to "it doesn't matter what Berman says, I can lie and frame and do what I want, I have the power", is because Goodel thinks that trumps American law, when it doesn;t.

The NFL is a working entity under US Law regardless of what their good ol' boys club states on a piece of paper.

This is no different than the anti-gay marriage thing. Civil rights/human rights trump anything else. You can't re-write American law unless you go through Congress.

Framing someone to rule on something is not legal. That's the issue. It'd be like Coke and RC Cola teaming up to lie and frame Pepsi, using the press to profit, and then expect to get away with it, just because it was a good idea they duped the public on to have the public by more Coke/RC Cola after a merger or something.

No. This is America. There are laws.

I guess if you're Lester Munson or some other bozo at ESPN, you think this is about only Goebbels's absolute powers, when in reality, it's about how Goodell has been caught lying numerous times to federal judges.

Doty, Jones and now Berman (and Chin/Parker), the latter 2 will go silent after being paid off. So, Sheriff Goebbels has lied to at least 3 federal judges, which I am sure Ginsburg doesn't like.

This isn't about dreaming. This is about Brady having the leverage and Goodell's stupidity and hubris.

 

[BobDigital]

So I don't have it marked on my calendar but isn't this going to come up in a few days?

 

[Rusty Griswold]

If you're really committed to your belief in that regard, then the guy you want to contact is the very ambitious US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Preet Bharara. You can print out a Fillable Report Form (Report A Crime | USAO-SDNY | Department of Justice) and send it to him anonymously at:

United States Attorney's Office
Southern District of New York
Attn: Civilian Crime Reports Unit (Criminal Division)
One St. Andrew's Plaza
New York, NY 10007

Bharara shows every indication of being as politically ambitious as one of his predecessors in his job, Rudy Giuliani. He has put several high profile people behind bars and is currently going after the Mayor of New York City, but a corrupt federal judge would get major headlines, so if you can substantiate your charge, have at it!

Well, a local NY judge just asked the NFL to furnish all documents for the discovery process to look into the concussion settlements, which is bad news for the NFL. Don't think for a second the owners are not quietly concerned about this stuff, in conjunction with Brady's situation.

I don't need to do anything. The FEDS are watching the NFL as we speak.

If the owners were wise, they'd scapegoat and fire Goodell now and clean house to save some face.

 

[Rusty Griswold]

Berman vacated the suspension. CA2 ordered Berman to dissolve his vacatur of the suspension. Berman won't act on that order until the relevant deadlines pass.

If the NFLPA petitions for en banc review the CA2 order will likely continue to be held in abeyance (though I don't believe it has to be) and the suspension will continue to be vacated. I don't know if the NFLPA needs to formally request a stay of the CA2 order in conjunction with the en banc request.

If CA2 grants en banc review that actually vacates the decision of the Chin/Parker/Katzmann panel and wipes out the CA2 order to Berman. So at that point no need to ask for any stay before the en banc ruling.

If the en banc CA2 finds for the NFL it will issue an order to Berman to dissolve his vacatur. If the NFLPA intends to seek certioari from SCOTUS it will need to ask CA2 to stay its order if CA2 doesn't do that on its own.

If CA2 refuses to stay its order, the NFLA will have to ask SCOTUS for a stay pending SCOTUS's decision on the certioari petition. That will be made via Ginsburg, but IIRC it is standard practice for the "overseeing" justices to refer such petitions to the full court. If SCOTUS denies certioari (the decision to accept or deny can take months, BTW) the case is over. If they accept they will likely extend their stay of CA2's order (though again, the NFLPA might have to formally request it).

Translation?

A lot of money is needed. Brady has it, as does the NFLPA.

Your move, Sheriff Goebbels.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Is everyone aware that Ginsburg is the SC Justice overseeing the 2nd circuit? Unless you've been under a rock, which clearly Goodell never thought it might go to her at this point, this is a huge piece of leverage for Brady.

Ginsburg is liberal and would be ruling on a landmark case, as I've said from the beginning. This goes way beyond the NFL bubble. It would then be about employee rights and employees being set up for violations they didn't commit, for ulterior motives, namely financial gains and ego, power and greed.

This is huge. I was mocked for my opinion on this on Boston Globe board, as I have been for other opinions there for years, but in the end, I am usually correct.

I'll repeat this one more time: Goodell doesn't want his hand anywhere near a bible under oath in front of a SCOUTUS hearing. Nowhere near it, which is why I believe the owners DID want Brady to settle AFTER Goodell's win last month. They are wrong in thinking Brady would ever settle, which has to have them crapping in their pants.

That's why Goodell quickly came out and publicly stated "we are not settling". He thinks it's over right now, but he's mistaken, as are his attorneys.

Brady has the leverage here.

It's in Sheriff Goebbels's best interest to somehow lose with it kicked back hearing only at the 2nd court level, with a stay and En Banc, as opposed to sit in front of Ginsburg answering for a fraud Wells Report he and Pash engineered and doctored.

However, if he does lose, Brady will never take anything less than 0 games, where Kraft was promised last May.

Unbelievable.

Brady will never be suspended, but we got cheated out of a 1st rd pick again (and a 4th), and Kraft had money stolen again.

I don't see how Goodell survives this. Then again,l I thought for sure he'd be canned after the Rice Fiasco.

If I was an NFL owner, I would scapegoat Goodell to save face, and try to keep footing into the next CBA.

If Goodell loses, and stays on, the NFLPA has the leverage with a strike in tow, for 2020.

A strike would severely ruin Jax getting to London and those plans of expansion.

I am assuming the union knows this.

I don't know where to begin.
Ginsberg is for emergency stays. Decisions to take a case are typically referred to the entire court.
The Supreme Court considers the record of lower courts, it doesn't call witnesses.

The only way Goodell would have to testify would be if CA2 had sent the case back to Berman with specific instructions in that regard, which are highly unlikely. The likelihood of its doing so en banc are very slim.

Where this does would get interesting would be if Olson can successfully make the argument that the Steelworkers Decision and not the Garvey decision should prevail (see my lengthy post earlier in this thread). The bottom line is that they should have had the "A Team" argue the initial Appeal. Now we're in rope-a-dope-and-hope mode.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Well, a local NY judge just asked the NFL to furnish all documents for the discovery process to look into the concussion settlements, which is bad news for the NFL. Don't think for a second the owners are not quietly concerned about this stuff, in conjunction with Brady's situation.

I don't need to do anything. The FEDS are watching the NFL as we speak.

If the owners were wise, they'd scapegoat and fire Goodell now and clean house to save some face.

I'll take that as, "I don't have any evidence."

 

[XLIX]

Do you realize the NFL was so sloppy in filing their case in the NY court, in fear of the NFLPA getting it field in Minnesota with Doty, that they forgot to sign their own paperwork?

Yes I do. In fact when that happened, I made a post that the MN judge would consider his paperwork "first" because his was filed properly, but no such luck.

Don't be so naive. The fact Kessler wasn't even allowed to speak, points to Chin and Parker being paid off as underlings to Katzmann. They knew Katzmann couldn't be bought.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Well, a local NY judge just asked the NFL to furnish all documents for the discovery process to look into the concussion settlements, which is bad news for the NFL. Don't think for a second the owners are not quietly concerned about this stuff, in conjunction with Brady's situation.

I don't need to do anything. The FEDS are watching the NFL as we speak.

If the owners were wise, they'd scapegoat and fire Goodell now and clean house to save some face.

Right. If CA2 had referred this back to Berman with instructions to pursue the involvement of Pash et al in the drafting of the Wells report, Goodell would have a big problem. But that hasn't happened. Maybe Olson can move something here. I'm hopeful but not optimistic.

 

[XLIX]

I'll repeat this one more time: Goodell doesn't want his hand anywhere near a bible under oath in front of a SCOUTUS hearing. Nowhere near it, which is why I believe the owners DID want Brady to settle AFTER Goodell's win last month. They are wrong in thinking Brady would ever settle, which has to have them crapping in their pants.

Unfortunately, that isn't how the Supreme Court works. The only realistic way Goodell would have to testify would be in a civil suit.

 

[XLIX]

Well, a local NY judge just asked the NFL to furnish all documents for the discovery process to look into the concussion settlements, which is bad news for the NFL. Don't think for a second the owners are not quietly concerned about this stuff, in conjunction with Brady's situation.

The owners are likely *very* concerned about losses from the concussion settlement, but I don't see how that relates to Brady.

 

[Rusty Griswold]

The owners are likely *very* concerned about losses from the concussion settlement, but I don't see how that relates to Brady.

Brady is now being used a pawn of sorts heading into the next CBA. It's leverage to get a better deal for the union, along with the concussion thing, which is why Goodell has doubled down on Deflategate.

In other words, Goodell CANNOT afford to lose this, because it's a loss of leverage at the next CBA table for 2019.

 

[Rusty Griswold]

Unfortunately, that isn't how the Supreme Court works. The only realistic way Goodell would have to testify would be in a civil suit.

He doesn't want that either, though. Don't you realize if Goodell loses here at all, it's an open and shut Defamation case if Brady wants it?

These are all steps Goodell can take, as long as Brady is willing.

NFLPA and Brady both have strong interests to bury Goodell.

The last thing Goodell wants is a SC Justice telling he and his cronies that he's been lying to federal judges for years now.

It would all but guarantee a slam dunk defamation suit for Brady that would cost the owners 250 million, if not more.

This is some serious **** here.

 

[Rusty Griswold]

I'll take that as, "I don't have any evidence."

Sorry if I don't have the authority to check their mattresses or back accounts. Judges and court rooms are paid off all the time.

Sorry you're a bit naive to that.

My evidence is that Kessler wasn't ever allowed to speak. That's my evidence. Goodell's appeal hearing was as much a railroading as Goodell framing Brady for this.