This years draft picks

[OsloRhino]

Barring the overwhelming success of Maroney, has anyone really been wow-ed by this years draft?

I mean...

Jackson. Looks a cracking prospect, as does the newly accquired Doug Gabriel but Brady still doesn't seem to trust them. He's looking for Caldwell and Troy Brown more and more.

Thomas. Anyone? It was supposed to be Watson's break-out year, but I'm underwhelmed. Daniel Graham is no more than an average Joe. So, with the departure of Fauria I was looking forward to Thomas (who was supposed to have the best vertical leap of any TE in the draft) getting some game time. Or at least getting ready to step into Watson's shoes... but no.

Garrett Mills. Was hoping that this guy's arrival would mean that we could cut one of Heath Evans, Patrick Pass or (hopefully not) Kevin Faulk. But... I'm still waiting.

 

[TeamPats]

You must be joking. You know who was also a bust his rookie year was Ty Warren. Not to mention Ben Watson. Oh and let us not forget Tom Brady, that guy was a waste of a pick. Maybe we should hold on to our judgements for another 2 years. Quite honestly it would be unfair to rate Hobbs or Mankins at this point let alone the rookies. All young players have an enormous learning curve to go through in the first 3 years. So why don't you just appreciate the fact that we have a Front Office that realizes this and continues to produce quality players.

 

[marty]

I know some may/are tempted to discuss draft prospects due to 2 losses in a row(gasp) but you might want to find the draft forum. It's got some great debates going on there!

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

it is disingenuous to mention this year's rookie class and not mention O'Callaghan. They got their starting RT in the 5th round.

As for the round 1-4 guys, it's just too early to tell. Maroney is not yet the star Pats fans want to make him out to be. The other guys haven't had much of a chance to prove themselves, and even if they had there's nothing wrong with a guy needing a year to pick up the pro game and the team's offense.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Barring the overwhelming success of Maroney, has anyone really been wow-ed by this years draft?

Why would you start a discussion like this by barring the success of our #1 draft pick? Compared to Reggie Bush on the whole I think he's doing a bang up job in the positions he's been placed in in this system.

I mean...

Jackson. Looks a cracking prospect, as does the newly accquired Doug Gabriel but Brady still doesn't seem to trust them. He's looking for Caldwell and Troy Brown more and more.

WR's take time to develop within an established unit, let alone one with 4 of 5 unfamiliar witht the system. Why lump him in with veterans for evaluation purposes unless you are willing to acknowledge they are all new to the system and are because of injury or acquisition date being forced to make the acquaintance of a complex playbook and a new QB and each other on the fly in the regular season.

Thomas. Anyone? It was supposed to be Watson's break-out year, but I'm underwhelmed. Daniel Graham is no more than an average Joe. So, with the departure of Fauria I was looking forward to Thomas (who was supposed to have the best vertical leap of any TE in the draft) getting some game time. Or at least getting ready to step into Watson's shoes... but no.

Again, why do you ask a question of Thomas and then point to Watson. Thomas has been getting time in Graham's absence, has certainly been filling Fauria's role as well as subbing for Graham whose role has been primarily blocking oriented and was certainly not intended to step into Watson's shoes (which we all agree Watson is still struggling to fill as it is).

Garrett Mills. Was hoping that this guy's arrival would mean that we could cut one of Heath Evans, Patrick Pass or (hopefully not) Kevin Faulk. But... I'm still waiting.

Don't hold your breath then, Mills just went on IR.

 

[Mack Herron]

Whither the playmakers

Sure its too early to declare that the rookies are not going to develop. But it is not too early to say that their contribution this year has been minimal, save for Maroney. WIth the losses we had, the rookie class did little to fill their shoes. You can point to Brady and Warren not doing much their first year, but there are also rookies who contributed right away (Eugene Wilson, Logan Mankins and Deion Branch for instance). Call it whatever you want, the Patriots are suffering now because they have too few guys who can make plays. Maybe Maroney, Jackson, Thomas and Mills will wind up in the HOF, but they are not doing much to help us win now, and neither is Seymour (outplayed by Warren) or Bruschi (outplayed by Seau). They need someone to step up and make plays now, and we are wating for someone to rise to the occassion.

 

[stinkypete]

Ok, I agree that some of out old-reliables have underperformed this year. Warren has outperformed Seymour, Seau has at least matched Bruschi, and Wilson was non-existant before his injury.

But to say that the rookie class has underperformed is a bit absurd.

Maroney has outperformed all rookie backs with the exception of Addai, maybe topping Addai when you consider kick returns.

Jackson has been overshadowed by Marques Colston and Greg Jennings, but has made some big plays too. Either way, it's hard to argue Santurdio or Sinorice Moss over him.

O'Challaghan has been one of the top 3-5 rookie OL this year.

 

[Mack Herron]

Perhaps we can agree that it is too much to expect big contributions from rookies, except for very high picks. The problem is that for the last couple of years the team has also not gotten much help from free agents, while suffering a big loss of verteran talent through attrition (free agency). The only hope for us fans is to have the rookie classes step up, and it has not happened. The drafting has been okay, but not spectacular. The net effect is simply that there is less talent on the team now than there was in 04 and it shows.

Yes, there is plenty of football left to be played, but when was the last time their performance took a nose dive in November? That's no way to win a championship boys. If I were a coach, I would certainly be looking to make some changes because this team is headed in the wrong direction. Find more ways to get the ball to Maroney, Jackson, Gaffney (perhaps Thomas as well given Watson's drops) because they look like they can do something with it. Yes, we may die with their mistakes, but we are already dying without them. Help out the coverage with more pressure. They need to find a way to light a fire under these guys Sunday or it will be too late. I have already detected some desperation on the part of the coaches (benching Gabriel and O'Callaghan last week), and if they do not show rapid improvement in GB, I look for more of the same.

 

[OsloRhino]

OK... let me put it another way.

Nigh on every scribe I read this year had the Pats as securing the best draft overall. Cariuci on NFL went as far as grading Pats at an 'A'.

The Pats had two potential starters in both Maroney and Jackson according to everyone.

So... Maroney starts and fires whereas Jackson is having a stop-start campaign. I'm aware that he's playing perhaps the most difficult position going for a rookie and it will take time for him to bed in. But I just don't want him to turn into the next Bethel Johnson. We're in trouble at WR. We lack a game-breaker. Caldwell is quick, but Brady has nigh on rarely slung a 50yard pass, so Reeche won't be pulling ten catches per game.
In addition to Caldwell we have Pat Great Troy Brown. As much as I love him, he's not a game-breaker nor is he a number one target.- He'll do a job, and he'll play his heart out- The Pats way.
For some reason, the chemistry between Gabriel and Brady isn't quite there yet. Now I don't care what any scribe says, Gabriel was a number three wide out in Oakland and if he turns into a number two at Foxboro, we're making a steal for what we traded for him. Gabriel can go short, long, in, out and jump. What more could we want?
What I'm crying out for is Bellicheck to give Jackson the chance to make the plays he made in College. He's a potential number one reciever. So why isn't he getting his chance?

Now... Garrett Mills. As much as this kid looks the business, he's delievered squat. And why would he? Where is his game time? When we drafted him, I thought "Goodbye Miller... and with any luck someone (and my gut said Green Bay) will trade for Patrick Pass". This hasn't come to light. Injuries, I know, but he's not been injured every game. And when I look at game-tape and what I read online seems to confirm what I'm already thinking. Is he a full-back? An H-back? Are we going to develop him to be a Mike Alstott\Jamal Lewis battering ram? I don't know... I don't think that BB does either. And thats worrying for such a high round draft pick. I can live with Kevin Faulk eating into his workload, because he's such a wonderful 3rd down option to have. But again, don't we have more questions here than answers?

Finally, someone who in my eyes had more potential than any of our other draft picks, that being the TE Thomas. When the Pats have 3 good, and I mean good TE's I was looking for Bellicheck to really try some special plays. I can't think of many teams who could match up so well, especially in and around the red zone. I accept that Daniel Graham has been banged up, but Bellicheck is seeming to prefer a 70 percent Graham to a 100 percent Thomas. Now you can cite familiarity to play book all you want, but this kid physically dominates. And when you've such a huge advantage, I don't like to see it go to waste. I was hoping that this kid by now would be our number two TE, as after all Ben Watson was due to have a break out season. Guess what? Neither on these scenarios have happened.

We can go back to the finds BB has made. Stephen Neal and Nick Kazcur being perhaps two of his greatest picks. He seems to take raw talent and mould it. This year seems to be an exception to the rule.

 

[Patfandango]

quote
When we drafted him, I thought "Goodbye Miller"

Does this mean he was drafted to replace our punter?

With all due respect, this is a silly post. There have been occasional rookies that have stepped up their first season: Light, Koppen, Mankins, Wilson, Samuel among others. These have largely been due to injury and hence necessity. Judging a draft by their rookie year performance is pure folly. If we judged neal on his first year, your greatest draft pick would be coaching wrestling now. Thomas is third and Mills is fourth (now IR) in the TE depth chart and deservedly so. he's still learning the system. I like what I see from this draft because they have talent and good attitude and can be taught. Maroney is exceptional in his attitude and I think he'll be a great patriot. Jackson has obvious talent and as you said will take time to bed in. O'Callahan was a steal and only dropped in the draft due to injury concern. Gostkowski has a great leg and will be fine. I'm surprised not to see more of Andrews especially on ST.

 

[TruthSeeker]

So far, I'm very happy. Maroney has actually exceeded my hopes so far. He has had one huge game running the ball, a couple of good ones of 70+ games, and then some games where he didn't really get going as a halfback, but has been huge on kickoffs. He leads the NFL in kickoff returns, which is a pleasant surprise.

Jackson has been a mild dissappointment so far, but you can at least see the potential (something I never saw with Bethel Johnson, except on KO's). I think he will be a good one, but not this year, I don't see him being a major contributer for the rest of the year, maybe 1 catch a game like he's been getting lately.

Thomas certainly looks the part, and I think he is being groomed to take Graham's place.

Mills was a mistake pick, he will be the Klecko of the offense. I really don't see a place for him on the team, and would have rather picked a WR at that time. I thought that then, and still feel the same now. Imagine how Marques Colston would have looked in a Pats uni, I would have picked Colston over all of our picks after Mills (except for Gostkowski).

It's still too early, but this can be a franchise changing draft, if Maroney, Jackson, Thomas, Gostkowski & O'Callahan keep improving. Maroney looks to be the surest thing of all the picks, and he should, he was a first round pick.

 

[ATippett56]

It has been written to properly evaluate a draft class, one has to wait three years. With that in mind, it's time to evaluate the Patriots 2004 draft class which only the two first rounders have produced, Wilfork and Watson. The rest of the Patriots 2004 draft class has been a complete bust except for trading a second round draft pick for Corey Dillon. The lack of depth on the New England Patriots roster (especially in the defensive secondary and linebacker) may be attributed to this fact alone.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

OK... let me put it another way...

No, let me. Mills hasn't seen the field yet due to injury, and he was placed on Injured Reserve this week so he won't. If you have been seeing him in games and his play was disappointing you, you were delusional 'cause he ain't played and he isn't going to.

Jackson lost an entire camp to a hamstring injury. That said, he is apparently having some difficulty translating what he understands in theory on paper into what he can do in game speed situations on an NFL field. BB won't play them if he doesn't think they can execute plays they way they were intended to be executed. This isn't college. End of story.

Thomas has been out there in Graham's extended absence and he didn't light it up. He makes some plays, but so does Graham when he's in and BB will always value veteran experience over rookie promise. We don't get to see them practice, but if he were lighting it up there he would likely be getting more playing time. That's how BB makes those decisions. He trusts Graham because he's earned it, and he values his blocking because we unfortunately need it. But neither TE was a day one pick so I think you are just trying to project unrealistic expectations onto them. They don't need to light it up in year 1 to represent value.

 

[OsloRhino]

No, let me. Mills hasn't seen the field yet due to injury, and he was placed on Injured Reserve this week so he won't. If you have been seeing him in games and his play was disappointing you, you were delusional 'cause he ain't played and he isn't going to.

Jackson lost an entire camp to a hamstring injury. That said, he is apparently having some difficulty translating what he understands in theory on paper into what he can do in game speed situations on an NFL field. BB won't play them if he doesn't think they can execute plays they way they were intended to be executed. This isn't college. End of story.

Thomas has been out there in Graham's extended absence and he didn't light it up. He makes some plays, but so does Graham when he's in and BB will always value veteran experience over rookie promise. We don't get to see them practice, but if he were lighting it up there he would likely be getting more playing time. That's how BB makes those decisions. He trusts Graham because he's earned it, and he values his blocking because we unfortunately need it. But neither TE was a day one pick so I think you are just trying to project unrealistic expectations onto them. They don't need to light it up in year 1 to represent value.

You didn't see Mills pre-season? Not against Atlanta? Nor Washington?

You make a valid point against the TE position. But to me, Daniel Graham has under-achieved all his career. I love teams who have a TE that they can throw to. Crumpler. Gonzales. Witten. Heap. Heck, you don't even half to be all that good (Scaife) or all that quick (Jolley\Royale)

 

[mgteich]

Wow!

This draft was one of the best ever. Maroney, Gostkowski and O'Callaghan have already produced more than we have a right to expect from any rookie class.

Even after a hammy injury, Jackson is still contributing, and is a future starter.

Thomas is Graham's replacement at TE. And BTW, if the best blocking TE is an underperformer, I guess you think that TE's is simply WR with a bit of extra weight.

I agree that Mills may have been a mistake. I don't like players without a clear role either. And maybe not. We'll see after he is healthy for a season. We'll see after he competes in a couple of camps. With regard to the preseason, he looked like a fine prospect.

So, let's see. We have probably starters at RB, K, KR, RT, WR and TE. And this doesn't even count the ST/defensive prospects: Andrews, Woods, Smith and Mays.

 

[OsloRhino]

I think we can all agree on one thing here: BB is his own man.

Every preview of the draft I read had the Pats going for a CB or a ILB. Bobby Carpenter was the nearest thing to a lock.

We thankfully got Maroney.

But, are we all in agreement that we'd like to see our Rookies all with more game time and more ball in hand?

 

[Brarrell]

Perhaps we can agree that it is too much to expect big contributions from rookies, except for very high picks. The problem is that for the last couple of years the team has also not gotten much help from free agents, while suffering a big loss of verteran talent through attrition (free agency). The only hope for us fans is to have the rookie classes step up, and it has not happened. The drafting has been okay, but not spectacular. The net effect is simply that there is less talent on the team now than there was in 04 and it shows.

Yes, there is plenty of football left to be played, but when was the last time their performance took a nose dive in November? That's no way to win a championship boys. If I were a coach, I would certainly be looking to make some changes because this team is headed in the wrong direction. Find more ways to get the ball to Maroney, Jackson, Gaffney (perhaps Thomas as well given Watson's drops) because they look like they can do something with it. Yes, we may die with their mistakes, but we are already dying without them. Help out the coverage with more pressure. They need to find a way to light a fire under these guys Sunday or it will be too late. I have already detected some desperation on the part of the coaches (benching Gabriel and O'Callaghan last week), and if they do not show rapid improvement in GB, I look for more of the same.

Bottom line the FO and ownership did little to improve this team in FA how do you look your fan base and season ticket holders with the highest ticket prices not to mention parking fees in the eye,and for that matter the QB and honestly say you are championship driven.

 

[OsloRhino]

Bottom line the FO and ownership did little to improve this team in FA how do you look your fan base and season ticket holders with the highest ticket prices not to mention parking fees in the eye,and for that matter the QB and honestly say you are championship driven.

Because the franchise is the most successful in NFL since 2000?

 

[mgteich]

Indeed!

Let's see how badly we've done this year in free agency and trades:

Gabriel - starting WR
Caldwell - starting WR
Seau - starting ILB

We also re-signed a bunch from last year including Hawkins.

We look back and consider how great we did in free agency when we picked up players like Harrison and Vrabel. The fact is that they were far from locks to be top players. We could have one top free agent in Caldwell or Gabriel. We'll see in a year, or perhaps by the playoffs.

Because the franchise is the most successful in NFL since 2000?

 

[BradyManny]

Jackson lost an entire camp to a hamstring injury. That said, he is apparently having some difficulty translating what he understands in theory on paper into what he can do in game speed situations on an NFL field. BB won't play them if he doesn't think they can execute plays they way they were intended to be executed. This isn't college. End of story.

Sorry, I cringed upon reading this because it reminded me of Doc Rivers too much. If he's having trouble getting used to the NFL speed, the only way to make him grow is to have him play in the game and learn at the NFL's speed. End of story.

That said, it's still too early in his development to do that. But it's also too early to start saying things like "if he can't execute the plays, he can't get on the field." Every athlete knows that there's only so much you can learn in practice, in order to get used to "game speed", you need to be in the game.