The totalitarian regime of Roger Goodell

[archstanton543]

you mean that chain of custody that left footballs at the hotel on game day here in foxboro while everyone was blaming the patriots for being dirty cheaters?

its nto just footballs, quarter 1 of the first game last year had the ****ing steelers complaining that the headsets were ****ing bugged.

And what became of those two situations? Were the Pats fined or draft picks taken away?

 

[raduray]

I do wonder if this ruling INCREASES the chances that SCOTUS will take up the Brady case. I mean, if you're someone like Ginsburg, doesn't this 8th court decision - and especially the wording about fundamental fairness - really slap you across the face and make you go, whoa whoa whoa there, hang on a minute?

It's my understanding that the SCOTUS is more likely to take up cases where's there's a split between two or more appeals courts. But there is no split here. Both the 8th and 2nd CA's have ruled that the CBA trumps fundamental fairness. It will be interesting to see if the SCOTUS takes this up, or even if the NFLPA will appeal, given the CA unanimity.

 

[chasa]

And what became of those two situations? Were the Pats fined or draft picks taken away?

not yet.

 

[ivanvamp]

They do. Because who's writing down these measurements and signing off on chain custody paperwork? The League? No. It's the refs. Imagine if the League doctored those documents and forged signatures. I'm sure the ref's CBA does allow for fundamental fairness.

No, I'm saying that the refs properly measure and record the Pats' and, say, Jets' footballs before the game. Jets come in between 12.8 and 13.2. The Pats come in between 12.5 and 12.8.

Then the game is played in 19 degree temps. The Jets complain about the footballs. At halftime they measure the footballs. The Jets' measure at 10.3. The Pats' measure at 10.0.

Goodell takes the 10.0, and, because the Pats' are "serial cheaters", he takes away more first round picks, and suspends Brady a whole year.

WHO CARES THAT THE JETS' FOOTBALLS ALSO MEASURED BELOW THE 12.5 LIMIT? We know that the Colts' balls, when using the same gauge they deemed that was used to get the Pats' balls at the low mark, WERE ALSO BELOW 12.5.

So Goodell punishes the Pats anyway. The Courts have just ruled that even if this is grossly unfair, it DOES NOT FREAKING MATTER.

 

[archstanton543]

So Goodell punishes the Pats anyway. The Courts have just ruled that even if this is grossly unfair, it DOES NOT FREAKING MATTER.

There's a reason the League didn't release the pressure numbers like they said they would. It's because they prove that the IGL exists. I really don't think they'll go back to that well again. If they punish the Pats/Brady again it will be for something else.

 

[Kontradiction]

In the end, the players have nobody to blame but themselves for signing on the dotted line of such an agreement knowing the type of guy who was in charge.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Except they have chain of custody and pressure recording rules now that will make a Deflategate 2 extremely unlikely. If they whack the Pats with another scandal, it will be for something else.

Don't worry.........they'll find something

 

[ivanvamp]

In the end, the players have nobody to blame but themselves for signing on the dotted line of such an agreement knowing the type of guy who was in charge.

As has been pointed out, Article 46 was agreed to WAY before Roger Goodell became commissioner. It was agreed to back when people assumed that the commissioner was a reasonable and fair minded person.

 

[Kontradiction]

As has been pointed out, Article 46 was agreed to WAY before Roger Goodell became commissioner. It was agreed to back when people assumed that the commissioner was a reasonable and fair minded person.

People were not assuming Goodell was a reasonable and fair minded person in 2011.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Again, Article 46 has been part of the CBA for a long long time. It's just never been abused this way before. It was never haggled over because they had no reason to believe the Commish would use it to arbitrarily punish players since no one had every used it that way before. Now, I will say that the NFL CBA is the worst out of the four major US sports but not because they allowed Article 46.

Thanks. Even though it hadn't been abused yet and the labor lawyers never flagged it as problematical seems to me to be more concerning. I'm sure, in hindsight, the monies spent in trying to mitigate the power would have been better spent in preventing it. Well, the emperor is clothed in a nice new suit coming off his wins in the Brady and Peterson cases so they (the NFLPA) have their work cut out for them in the next CBA. I think it's going to get ugly from here on in, but I may be overestimating the size of the 'nads on the players and the union.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

It is not as simple as "Sign a CBA and you can do anything you want." It's "Get them to sign a s— CBA that gives someone nearly unlimited power."

I could see why you went there. Obviously a CBA is an agreement between a union and a business and would need to be signed/ratified first.

Just really pointing out how ridiculous it is that fairness can be signed away. It should be implicit in any legal agreement where a court of law might be needed. And arbitration/CBA in my view should be based upon law (in fact it is, except for the NFL CBA....apparently).

 

[DarrylS]

Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely.. Lord Acton.

Payback is a bytch Roger..

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Actually, the NFL and RG owe a great debt of gratitude to the players and the union for agreeing to this CBA. Herr Goodell is just enforcing the power that was granted him by the clueless. I am 100% in for the players but this last CBA was just stupid, criminally stupid on their part. I see a large problem wresting that power from the NFL dictator but you never know. Maybe the players grow a pair in the meantime. I'm not hopeful..

If the p-layers were smart, the NFL as arbitrator would be off the books before evening coming to the table to negotiate. That way they don't have to give something up for it.

but, we all know they need to get paid immediately and that's why our TFB is sitting 4 games. Short term gain for long term pain...as long as they perceive it doesn't affect them.

 

[IllegalContact]

when the players of an entire team decide to come down with the 'goodell flu' one sunday morning and the game cannot be played, the owners will react quickly

man, there are countless ways the players, as the ones who put the product on the field can react within the confines of the CBA that can undermine the game so much that the owners will have to make a change.

don't worry, they'd turn on him just as easily as they turn on each other and their players.......they are billionaires and that's how billionaires act

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Roger Goodell, thanks to two US Courts of Appeal, literally can issue ANY penalty he wants, for ANY infraction - real or imagined. And the courts just said he has the right to do that.

It's worse than that. CA8 ruled that "fundamental fairness" is not required in any labor arbitration. It also ruled that if parties to an arbitration agreement allow one side to pick the arbitrator, the other side has been deemed to have waived any and all bias/"evident partiality" claims.

 

[Galeb]

And what became of those two situations?

They resulted in a media frenzy and deeper investigation than would have happened had it been any other team.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

According to @WallachLegal, CA8 also ruled that the commissioner is "not forever bound by historical precedent". And they strongly hinted that the commissioner is free to ignore NFL arbitration precedent from as little as six years ago. Even more permission for him to be completely arbitrary.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

According to @WallachLegal, CA8 also ruled that the commissioner is "not forever bound by historical precedent". And they strongly hinted that the commissioner is free to ignore NFL arbitration precedent from as little as six years ago. Even more permission for him to be completely arbitrary.

Here is the exact language:

The arbitrator relied on the Collective Bargaining Agreement and the law of


the shop to reach this conclusion. The Agreement gives the Commissioner discretion

to impose fines and suspensions for conduct detrimental to the game. The Personal

Conduct Policy allows for fines and suspensions based on the nature of the incident

and other relevant factors; it does not establish maximum punishments. Citing the

2010 Dolphins Player decision, the arbitrator reasoned that the Commissioner “is not

forever bound to historical precedent,” and that “f he should determine that the

current level of discipline imposed for certain types of conduct has not been effective

in deterring such conduct, it is within his authority to increase discipline in such

cases.” As applied to Peterson’s case, therefore, the arbitrator thought the terms of

the Agreement, the law of the shop, and the Personal Conduct Policy gave the

Commissioner discretion to impose a six-game suspension and fine if he concluded

that shorter suspensions in prior cases had been inadequate. The arbitrator’s decision

on this point was grounded in a construction and application of the terms of the

Agreement and a specific arbitral precedent. It is therefore not subject to secondguessing

by the courts.

It comes down to the same thing I had mentioned. The issue is that the "arbitrator" decided that the commissioner was ok in changing in historical precedent based on the terms of the CBA, and the Court isn't allowed to overturn an arbitration because of an error in interpretation of the CBA.

But in essence you're right. When the Jets get "caught" tampering with footballs, they'll be allowed to get off with a $25,000 fine because the arbitrator suddenly decided this wasn't an important issue after all and so is changing precedent, and the Court will be fine with it.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

It's worse than that. CA8 ruled that "fundamental fairness" is not required in any labor arbitration. It also ruled that if parties to an arbitration agreement allow one side to pick the arbitrator, the other side has been deemed to have waived any and all bias/"evident partiality" claims.

 

[jimache]

... something tells me NFLPA/NFL will reach an impasse on the next labor agreement negotiations and we might miss a few regular season games ... if there will be one