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The Strength coaches

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AzPatsFan, Oct 10, 2006.

  1. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Have you noticed how many "pulled hamstrings" injuries there have been?

    During the bye, when the seasonal performance is being reviewed, maybe these coaches need to review some of thier methods.

    Firstly, it seems apparent that a new longer and more cautious set of "warm-up" hamstring stretching exercises should be introduced.

    Secondly, it seems that maybe a revised set of weight lifting exercises that emphasize hamstring flexibility as well as explosion type exercises might be needed. It doesn't do much good to have great explosion in the hamstrings if that leads to pulls and the player ends up spending games in the tub and not on the field.

    Do y'all agree???
  2. Keegs

    Keegs Rookie

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    agree with what???
  3. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think you're getting too analytical here. We don't know what Mike, Herold, and the trainers do, we don't know how these guys got injured, we don't know what their specific injuries are, and we don't know how severe the injuries are or when they were suffered.

    We're just far too outside "the loop" to speculate on the specific exercises the players are doing.
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't know anything about conditioning and hamstring pulls but this comes up all the time. Sometimes things just happen, there doesn't always have to be someone to blame. Our S&C guy is supposed to be one of the best in the business.
  5. jimmyjames

    jimmyjames Rookie

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    Hey Everyone it's the annual guys-are-getting-injured-it-must-be-the-strength-and-conditioning-coaches'-fault post!
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2006
  6. edzo44

    edzo44 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    I think you're looking at the wrong problem. It's not just the Pats, ALL the teams are having problems with hamstring injuries lately.

    You should be concentrating on all those broken bones we've been having lately! What's up with that!? There must be exercises to strengthen all those flimsy bones in the wrists, arms and legs that our guys have been breaking the last couple of years right? It doesn't do to go out on the field and snap them flimsy bones left and right after all that weightlifting, must be the weights are too heavy. They should cut back on that to allow those weak bones to get stronger. Minimal weights, lots of milk, that'll fix everything. :D :D
  7. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    Shhhh... that means the we-must-switch-to-a-4-3-defense posts are right around the corner. ;)
  8. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Don't you guys think that Wright and Green should be on the field more? I would much rather have one of them out there than TBC or Seau.
  9. frazpt

    frazpt Rookie

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    First, not to be mean, but don't accuse coaches of not knowing what their doing unless you are better educated on the subject. Most hamstring injuries occur when the knee is flexed, and there is a change of postion. That means the hamstring is actually on slack. So what would a flexibility program do for a hamstring that is shortened and not stretched to the extreme. The strain actually occurs because the muscle is trying to decelerate the knee as it flexes and then extend during the cut. The purpose of plyometrics (explosion exercises) is to prepare the proprioception of the muscle to accept the load of the body weight and then recoil on the cut. This trains the body to react in the situation. Lifting weights and stretching will actually cause more hamstring strains. I could discuss this for awhile, and bore you, but the trainers and coaches know what they are doing. Injuries will occur no matter what, and if you look at the Strength coaches track record in the example of Willie McGuinest. It seems his program straightened out this player that was out every year with a hamstring or adductor strain.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Weren't their threads last year about Mike Woicik, who is considered the best in the business? There is a tendency for a lot of WR's to have hamstring problems and it seem that the problems are only coincidental.

    Earlier in the year, Josh Miller was interviewed and talked about Woicik, he claimed he was the best he had ever seen and personally felt that he and the staff here added 5 years to his career. Have read this before, so before we blame training staff have to ask if BB had someone on his staff who was impeding the players getting on the field would he keep them?? I can never believe that BB does not stay on top of or control anything that goes on in this franchise.

    OTOH look at Rodney Harrison, he is back on the field and playing as well as he did prior to the injury. Dan Koppen has recovered.. on and on injuries are part of the game and to blame anyone person begs the issue.
  11. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    I don't see the Pats as being an injury-prone team. I see the Pats as being a team with injury-prone DBs and receivers, but a (thankfully!) durable QB. Oh, almost every starter and key rotation player misses time now and then (who are the exceptions other than Brady and Warren?), but that's par for the football course.
  12. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    The team is 5 games into a 16+ game season. If the team can collect a win against a division rival by playing a vanilla offensive gameplan and a containment defensive gameplan while resting starters and giving opportunities for 2nd and 3rd string to gain valuable experience...well then...we can certainly entertain a myriad of threads discussing conspiracies, faults and failures.

    Sometimes I wonder...I may not be able to make pre-snap reads...but I sure have a good feel for what Belichick's philosophies entail...NYG had it, and a few more seasons in CLE would have revealed the same thing we see in NE...play each battle to win, but remember that you are fighting a war and save ammo for the next battle...
  13. BelizePats

    BelizePats Rookie

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    Does anyone here really think that coach B. would have just some slob running this critical aspect of the team?
    This aint the problem!
  14. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Why did post this degenerate in to a claque of defenders "protecting" the strength coaches? I didn't criticize them.

    BB always uses the Bye week to self analyze and self criticize. He tries to detect trends that they may be revealing to opponents. This does NOT mean the Offensive or Defensive coaches stink; it is merely a way to improve.

    Modern management is a is a self analysis and measurement process that leads to gradual improvements. Toyota's policy of continual improvement has produced the highest quality automobiles that has forced all the other vendors to try to match, and most have, until now there is essentially little statistical difference in quality between them.

    At one time Toyota's best efforts led to autos with 350 or so defects per 100 cars while the US manufacturer's had around 750 defects per hundred. Toyota established an image for quality. 3.5 defects versus 7.5 per vehicle on average. Now all have improved, until all produce vehicles with 90 to 120 defects per hundred vehicles. Essentially zero or one defect per vehicle on average. If anyone offered a vehicle with 350 or even half that at 175 defects per hundred, the auto would derided as a "lemon", yet that was the world very best at one time. No one does. As a consumer, the overall quality level of every manufacturer's auto has been of benefit to me.

    The strength coaches are fine coaches. It doesn't mean that they can't evaluate a stretching exercise or two and possibly improve them, given the perhaps inordinate number of hamstring injuries that the Team has suffered.

    I fully expect that Belichick is doing so, I merely pointed out this is probably an agenda item that y'all overlooked. :)
  15. BelizePats

    BelizePats Rookie

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    I can dig that AZ.
    You bring up some good points.
  16. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    Sorry, AZ... I'm sure more of a reaction to the "fire the S&C coaches" posts from last year and the year before. You do bring up some good points, as did frazpt (which I didn't find boring at all, man).
  17. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We're not dealing with Toyota's here. These guys are more like custom cars who were assembled by a variety of producers who were simply acquired by one end user and his mechanics are thereafter responsible with maintaining them in peak performance. In some cases the defect existed long before our mechanics got their hands on the little bugger. The only hammy problems we seem to be having are related to a rookie model acquired from Florida and a late model acquisiton from Oakland and one model produced in Foxboro. The rookie model spent the early spring in training for the annual combine competition - the training for which BB often lambastes as a waste of valuable football training related time - and our mechanics had barely had time to sneak a peak under the hood before he pulled his hammy in a TC exercise of some sort. The Oakland model came in nursing some injuries and like most WR models we acquired this season also in need of a tricky post production GPS installation so our QB could track his movements on the field.

    So aside from the "Wilson" edition, it would not appear we have a hammy problem that would remotely involve the Patriots strength and conditioning program. 1 in 53 through 9 regular and pre seaosn games is not in my mind indicative of any kind of chronic problem. Now the scaphoid bone thing on the other hand....but traumatic injuries which are the kind that have plagued this franchise for the last few seasons are really outside the perview of the strength and conditioning division. Although if during the bye they can locate and identify the guy on the staff responsible for traumatic fluke injuries I am all for canning his sorry ass...:D
  18. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Chad Jackson had a tough stretch with the hammy (as many rookie WRs do), but who else has missed a lot of time due to hammy issues? Gabriel? He came here that way. Who else? Seriously. Anyone? That's my problem with this thread - I don't see where there's been an epidemic of "strength-and-conditioning" injuries.
  19. frazpt

    frazpt Rookie

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    I appreciate your point of view from continueing analysis of your program, but again stretching you hammy won't do it. It is most often injuried in a shortened position of which, lengthening it will do nothing but pose more injury. I needs to be training in the transition position (cutting) which they do. I know first hand, I worked for a consultant to the Pats rehab/conditioning program.
  20. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    So just doing more Good Mornings and Hack Squats won't do it? :D

    Seriously, out of curiosity, how do they train in the cutting position? If it's not too lengthy for you or anything... training intrigues the hell outta me.

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