The sad state of the Pats Safeties

[supafly]

If anything, the position of safety is one of the teams' stronger points in my opinion.

 

[Triumph]

Harrison is the only DB in the history of the game to have 30 career sacks and 30 career interceptions. I hope you are still around in a few years to offer insightful commentary on how Brady's replacement isn't as good as perhaps the best QB to ever play the game. :bricks:

You missed the entire point.

Im not comparing any player to Harrison. In Reiss's poll, Chung has 68% of the vote as the best NE S when last season was his first season as a starter and hes a liability in coverage (your own words). Meri has been here 4 seasons and still gets benched. Meri has as many Pro Bowls as Rodney Harrison to illustrate what a joke the Pro Bowl is.

 

[Oswlek]

You missed the entire point.

Im not comparing any player to Harrison. In Reiss's poll, Chung has 68% of the vote as the best NE S when last season was his first season as a starter and hes a liability in coverage (your own words). Meri has been here 4 seasons and still gets benched. Meri has as many Pro Bowls as Rodney Harrison to illustrate what a joke the Pro Bowl is.

What point did I miss? That NE's safeties aren't as good as Rodney Harrison? Does that really need to be said? And does not being as good as one of the best safties to ever play the game mean that they are in a "sad state"?

If you are trying to make some other point, then I guess I did miss it, along with everyone else who responded to this thread. :confused2:

BTW, I never said Chung was a liability as a safety, I said he was as a nickle back.

 

[Shelterdog]

What point did I miss? That NE's safeties aren't as good as Rodney Harrison? Does that really need to be said? And does not being as good as one of the best safties to ever play the game mean that they are in a "sad state"?

If you are trying to make some other point, then I guess I did miss it, along with everyone else who responded to this thread. :confused2:

BTW, I never said Chung was a liability as a safety, I said he was as a nickle back.

I think the Chung at nickel experiment (which was largely a failure) was done so he could help with the run/be physical/be a bigger blitzing threat, and not because he was going to be a top cover guy. In the end the bad coverage outweighed the good.

 

[Oswlek]

I think the Chung at nickel experiment (which was largely a failure) was done so he could help with the run/be physical/be a bigger blitzing threat, and not because he was going to be a top cover guy. In the end the bad coverage outweighed the good.

Perhaps that was part of it, but I just saw it as an indictment on NE's sub corners. Once NE starting giving a little more snaps to Butler at the end of the year, Chung was there less.

 

[Professor Frink]

Just a prediction. By the end of 2011 league consensus will be that the Patriots have a better group of safeties than almost every other team.

 

[townes]

If anything, the position of safety is one of the teams' stronger points in my opinion.

That's how I see it as well, i think Chung is going to become a star player and a major presence in the backfield and the others are all good players. I think Page is better than we have seen yet and Meriweather isn't as good as the hype. Sanders is smart and solid.

 

[TheComeback]

Brandon Meriweather is a much better safety than he gets credit for on these forums. He is undeserving of two pro bowls, but if you go back and watch the games, he's constantly all over the field making plays.

Yes, he blows tackles and his attitude is a little undesirable, but he isn't Pacman Jones. Meriweather is the ideal "solid" free safety. Without him I think we'd notice our defense giving up quite a few more passes in the deep third of the field. He's very good in coverage.

 

[Oswlek]

Brandon Meriweather is a much better safety than he gets credit for on these forums. He is undeserving of two pro bowls, but if you go back and watch the games, he's constantly all over the field making plays.

Yes, he blows tackles and his attitude is a little undesirable, but he isn't Pacman Jones. Meriweather is the ideal "solid" free safety. Without him I think we'd notice our defense giving up quite a few more passes in the deep third of the field. He's very good in coverage.

BB seems to like him despite all his quirks. So, as usual, I'll consider my contradictory opinion wrong until proven otherwise.

 

[Triumph]

What point did I miss? That NE's safeties aren't as good as Rodney Harrison? Does that really need to be said? And does not being as good as one of the best safties to ever play the game mean that they are in a "sad state"?

If Chung is already the best NE S with deficiencies in coverage over a 4 year player in pro bowler Meri, then something is wrong.

If you are trying to make some other point, then I guess I did miss it, along with everyone else who responded to this thread. :confused2:

After the first 2 pages, 5 different poster see Meri as a problem and Chung already as the best S. 2 other posters look for Dowling to move to S. Looks like you dont speak for everyone else

BTW, I never said Chung was a liability as a safety, I said he was as a nickle back.

So, Chung is better in coverage vs # 1 and # 2 WRs? Not!

 

[Triumph]

It is interesting how BB will see things different than the fans. In 2003 we all point to Big Ted's arrival as a key fix to NE's prior year run D woes. What is forgotten is that Ted missed 8 games with minimal impact. Warren was a factor, but forgotten was that Dan Klecko played as many minutes as Ty did while Ted was out.

Yes, interesting.

The facts are that Washington missed only 6 games and to say there wasnt minimal impact in his absence is false. TW missed the Denver away game and the NE D had its first 100+ rusher in Clinton Portis that regular season. Klecko started at NT as was yanked out in the first quarter.

Klecko overall was a disaster at LB too, so his snaps or minutes there are really meaningless. 12 total tackles and 6 assists for all his minutes. Its like saying Maroney had an impact because he had 150 carries.

Where NE really fixed the run defese was by turning over 3/4 (4/5 if you add the top CB backup) of the secondary. Gap filling by the safeties and edge support from the CBs was what BB fixed while we were all pointing to the savior on the DL.

The facts are that the NE run defense couldnt stop anybody in pre season as opposing teams gashed the NE D.That prompted BB to pull of the deal with DAngelo for Washington.

Same Mcginest, Bruschi, Vrabel, Phifer Law, Harrison, Wilson, Poole. The difference Ted Washington. After he arrived there was a night and day difference on defense. Washington would tie up 2 sometimes 3 OL and was basically unmovable in the middle of the NE D. Everyone knows that the LBs make the majority of the plays in a 3 -4 and Washington kept people off Tedy Bruschi and his stats reflect that. Bruschi commented on that fact during the season.

Yes, Harrison made plays in the run D too. He was a pinball all over the field.

 

[townes]

Reading this thread unfortunately reminds me of just how bad the Patriots were last year. I'm not sure how much longer Belichik's rope should be given the grossly substandard performances his teams have been putting out. I think it's time to clean house and try to wrangle Pete Carroll from the Seahawks to try and revive this franchise.

 

[Raymond]

Reading this thread unfortunately reminds me of just how bad the Patriots were last year. I'm not sure how much longer Belichik's rope should be given the grossly substandard performances his teams have been putting out. I think it's time to clean house and try to wrangle Pete Carroll from the Seahawks to try and revive this franchise.

What a comic. I'd wondered last year while Carolina, Dallas, Cleveland, Minny, Denver, Tenn and San Fran were all coach shopping what kind of a bidding war there would be if BB was available.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Reading this thread unfortunately reminds me of just how bad the Patriots were last year. I'm not sure how much longer Belichik's rope should be given the grossly substandard performances his teams have been putting out. I think it's time to clean house and try to wrangle Pete Carroll from the Seahawks to try and revive this franchise.

Sad, really sad!

 

[townes]

What a comic. I'd wondered last year while Carolina, Dallas, Cleveland, Minny, Denver, Tenn and San Fran were all coach shopping what kind of a bidding war there would be if BB was available.

Given the trajectory the Patriots are on it won't be long until we find out because there is no way the Kraft's continue to put up with this kind of suckitude. Belcihik can't draft, can't find free agents who can contribute, can't adjust and can't gameplan. Worst of all though they are no longer winning, and that can't be tolerated. I don;t blame the naysayers for constantly crapping all over the Patriots because they are losers and the critics are winners.

 

[Oswlek]

Yes, interesting.

The facts are that Washington missed only 6 games and to say there wasnt minimal impact in his absence is false. TW missed the Denver away game and the NE D had its first 100+ rusher in Clinton Portis that regular season. Klecko started at NT as was yanked out in the first quarter.

Klecko overall was a disaster at LB too, so his snaps or minutes there are really meaningless. 12 total tackles and 6 assists for all his minutes. Its like saying Maroney had an impact because he had 150 carries.

The facts are that the NE run defense couldnt stop anybody in pre season as opposing teams gashed the NE D.That prompted BB to pull of the deal with DAngelo for Washington.

Same Mcginest, Bruschi, Vrabel, Phifer Law, Harrison, Wilson, Poole. The difference Ted Washington. After he arrived there was a night and day difference on defense. Washington would tie up 2 sometimes 3 OL and was basically unmovable in the middle of the NE D. Everyone knows that the LBs make the majority of the plays in a 3 -4 and Washington kept people off Tedy Bruschi and his stats reflect that. Bruschi commented on that fact during the season.

Yes, Harrison made plays in the run D too. He was a pinball all over the field.

Go back and check the YPC and YPG stats for the games Washington played and vs those that he missed. I think you'll be surprised.

 

[Oswlek]

If Chung is already the best NE S with deficiencies in coverage over a 4 year player in pro bowler Meri, then something is wrong.

After the first 2 pages, 5 different poster see Meri as a problem and Chung already as the best S. 2 other posters look for Dowling to move to S. Looks like you dont speak for everyone else

So, Chung is better in coverage vs # 1 and # 2 WRs? Not!

Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is it? What position does Chung play? How often are players of that position lined up 1:1 against opposing receivers?

Chung's coverage for a safety is OK. But it isn't very good as a nickleback.

As for the first issue, I'm starting to see that you aren't really worth the time. Why is it an indictment on NE's safeties overall that people have concerns about Meriweather? You still haven't said anything other than NE's safeties aren't as good as they were when they had the best safety in the league. What great insight!

 

[stcjones]

That is a no brainer man....Pat chung. Chung was awesome last year and earned alot of praise. Merriweather was average at best with exception of a few illegal hits. I think chung is real deal.

QUOTE=Triumph;2570900]Its pretty bad when youre debating between Meriweather and Chung as who is the best.

Man, do I miss Rodney Harrison. A complete Saftey and arguably the best NE has ever had.

Poll: Best safety on the Patriots - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston[/QUOTE]

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

Reading this thread unfortunately reminds me of just how bad the Patriots were last year. I'm not sure how much longer Belichik's rope should be given the grossly substandard performances his teams have been putting out. I think it's time to clean house and try to wrangle Pete Carroll from the Seahawks to try and revive this franchise.

Going 14-2 and then getting dominated by a team they annihilated earlier in the season, mostly because of the defense, is actually pretty bad.

 

[reflexblue]

Rodney is probably my favorite Patriot ever and no one can live up to him, but I love Chung. The guy knows how to make plays. I'm not a fan of BM.

I don't like BM either.....it Smells....it Smells BAD. :bricks: