The Patriots are changing their evaluation grading system for scouting

[RobertWeathers]

I get they were washed up, but it doesn’t change that they were completely lost in the Patriots’ system. These were some of the best of all time who couldn’t figure out how to play in the Patriots’ system. Several of the, admitted that.

This system requires precise, diverse route-runners. They were not which hampered their ability to be successful in this offense. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

Again, Ochocinco and Galloway would have struggled in the Patriots’ system in their prime.

Guys like Cooks, Moss, Welker, Hogan, Patten, Stallworth, Lloyd, Amendola and LaFell were all FAs, new to the offense and did just fine. Why? Because they were good route runners and could run multiple routes.

 

[patman52]

Bill picked Jones.

And he was a problem not THE problem.

My thoughts exactly. Love Bill, but Mac was handled wrong. Brady spoiled BB on his willingness to take BB's hits for the team.

 

[Rob0729]

This system requires precise, diverse route-runners. They were not which hampered their ability to be successful in this offense. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

Guys like Cooks, Moss, Welker, Hogan, Patten, Stallworth, Lloyd, Amendola and LaFell were all FAs, new to the offense and did just fine. Why? Because they were good route runners and could run multiple routes.

The route receivers run in the Perkins/Erhardt system are contingent on the defensive alignment on the play. Every receiver has multiple routes on every play and they have to determine the route based on how the defense lines up on that play. A receiver has a different route whether the CB is playing off or press or if the defense is man or zone. A receiver needs to diagnose the defense and figure out the correct route. A player's success in that system is very much tied to their intelligence.

Part of the problem of the last two years is that the receivers are not running the same routes that the QB thought they were supposed to run. Whether it was Mac or Zappe reading the defense wrong or the receiver reading it wrong, there were plenty of times where the QB threw it to a spot where the receiver wasn't. For all Mac's faults, reading defenses presnap is one of his strengths. So I assume more often than not, it was the receiver reading the wrong route.

And of the guys you listed, a lot of them took a while to pick up the offense. Only Moss and Welker were clicking on all cylinders right off the bat. Cooks was inconsistent early in the season. Sometimes very good, sometime not so much. Same thing with LaFell. Both became far more consistent as the season went on. People were labeling Amendola a bust his first year here. Hogan didn't come on until later in the season. Patten didn't really start to contribute in any significant way until mid to late October his first year. And Stallworth was an unique player because he was only used sparingly for a couple of big plays a game. He probably had a package of plays rather than had the entire playbook. But many of those receivers are known for their football intelligence.

But notice you didn't mention a WR who was a free agent in the last 6-7 years? Of those receivers you listed, the latest any of them were acquired were Hogan and LaFell in 2017. The Pats haven't acquired a WR in free agency that picked up the offense consistently since then. The closest you have is Bourne.

 

[XLIX]

I remember when BB first started here Pioli said, don't worry Bill, I'll get you some good players, and BB said, get me players to fit my system. I guess his system stopped working.

His system stopped working the day…. Oh, never mind….

 

[Rob0729]

#

I remember when BB first started here Pioli said, don't worry Bill, I'll get you some good players, and BB said, get me players to fit my system. I guess his system stopped working.

I think system meant more back then because there wasn't the WR talent in the league like there is today. The Pats won two Super Bowls with Troy Brown and David Patten as the starting WRs. No swipe at those guys, but I don't think either in their prime could start on about a quarter of the teams in the league now. I think both would be considered #3 WR teams like Miami, Philly, 49ers, etc.

The league has changed. That was Belichick's problem. He refused to adapt.

And there is evidence that the system on offense doesn't work anymore. It didn't work here. It didn't work in Las Vegas with more talent. It didn't work when either Judge used it for the Giants or Patricia used it with the Lions.

 

[The Gr8est]

Very happy about this news. The Patriots were known to have some of the smallest draft boards in the league. Instead of downgrading players for an issue they would often simply remove them from their board all together.

There was a rumor Deebo Samuel and Aj Brown were removed from the Pats board because they had to much fun on their visit to Foxboro.

Hopefully this new regime will hit on value plays in the draft that the previous regime would have completely removed from their board. The current group could buy themselves good will at the draft by simply not going against general consensus as much as Bill did.

I remember in the 2001 draft the top DT candidate was Gerard Warren.

The Pats picked Richard Seymour which was a great pick while Warren had a less than stellar career.

Word came out later that BB soured on Warren because rather than talk about football he wanted to know about the nightlife in the region.

Warren is a great example of someone who football was not important to.

Another interesting fact that I noticed while looking this up was that Michael Vick went 1st overall, and there were no other QBs taken in the 1st round. Drew Brees was the first pick in the 2nd round and a couple more QBs went later in the round.

Maybe it was a bad year for QBs, but it is hard to imagine only one QB going in the first round now.

If those same players came out in the same year now, at the very least I expect Drew Brees is a relatively high 1st, maybe top half.

 

[1960Pats]

I think this is the best news I have heard since the change in regimes. Looks like Belichick's grading system of putting an emphasis of how a player will fit into the Patriots' system over everything else is gone. And they are implementing the Packers' system where they emphasize athleticism, versatility, and explosiveness.



View attachment 56493

Patriots seemingly have no plans to fill vacant GM job this year in wake of Bill Belichick's departure

New England, however, has revamped its personnel group now captained by Eliot Wolf

www.cbssports.com

Was Bill using papa Steve's system? Whatever it was it hasn't been working.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

The route receivers run in the Perkins/Erhardt system are contingent on the defensive alignment on the play. Every receiver has multiple routes on every play and they have to determine the route based on how the defense lines up on that play. A receiver has a different route whether the CB is playing off or press or if the defense is man or zone. A receiver needs to diagnose the defense and figure out the correct route. A player's success in that system is very much tied to their intelligence.

Part of the problem of the last two years is that the receivers are not running the same routes that the QB thought they were supposed to run. Whether it was Mac or Zappe reading the defense wrong or the receiver reading it wrong, there were plenty of times where the QB threw it to a spot where the receiver wasn't. For all Mac's faults, reading defenses presnap is one of his strengths. So I assume more often than not, it was the receiver reading the wrong route.

And of the guys you listed, a lot of them took a while to pick up the offense. Only Moss and Welker were clicking on all cylinders right off the bat. Cooks was inconsistent early in the season. Sometimes very good, sometime not so much. Same thing with LaFell. Both became far more consistent as the season went on. People were labeling Amendola a bust his first year here. Hogan didn't come on until later in the season. Patten didn't really start to contribute in any significant way until mid to late October his first year. And Stallworth was an unique player because he was only used sparingly for a couple of big plays a game. He probably had a package of plays rather than had the entire playbook. But many of those receivers are known for their football intelligence.

But notice you didn't mention a WR who was a free agent in the last 6-7 years? Of those receivers you listed, the latest any of them were acquired were Hogan and LaFell in 2017. The Pats haven't acquired a WR in free agency that picked up the offense consistently since then. The closest you have is Bourne.

If you remember Amendola's first game, he caught I think 10 passes and we won that game because of him. I think he pulled a groin muscle and was ineffective for a while because of that.

 

[Zuma]

If you remember Amendola's first game, he caught I think 10 passes and we won that game because of him. I think he pulled a groin muscle and was ineffective for a while because of that.

Which was not dissimilar to Sanu…except he never was productive after that.

 

[1960Pats]

"Reaches" based on who... Mel Kiper, Street&Smith's, Tito the bartender down the corner?

I'd like to see Thornton and Strange stay healthy and get a high functioning offense around them. But then, I don't have an irrational desire to see BB draft picks fail... I see them as Patriots and nothing else.

I'll give them 3-4 years total, like I'd give every other talented rookie who shows flashes.

Those two are reaches based on what we've seen so far, or haven't seen.

And speaking of bartenders, I was in the North End a while back and went to a restaurant to see a server from my favorite restaurant that I knew had gone to that place to work. I went in and sat at the bar, ordered a wine and dinner from the bartender. I had never met the man before and when I went back there a few weeks later the guy remembered my name, the wine I drank and what I ate. That guy's going places in that business.

 

[1960Pats]

The route receivers run in the Perkins/Erhardt system are contingent on the defensive alignment on the play. Every receiver has multiple routes on every play and they have to determine the route based on how the defense lines up on that play. A receiver has a different route whether the CB is playing off or press or if the defense is man or zone. A receiver needs to diagnose the defense and figure out the correct route. A player's success in that system is very much tied to their intelligence.

Part of the problem of the last two years is that the receivers are not running the same routes that the QB thought they were supposed to run. Whether it was Mac or Zappe reading the defense wrong or the receiver reading it wrong, there were plenty of times where the QB threw it to a spot where the receiver wasn't. For all Mac's faults, reading defenses presnap is one of his strengths. So I assume more often than not, it was the receiver reading the wrong route.

And of the guys you listed, a lot of them took a while to pick up the offense. Only Moss and Welker were clicking on all cylinders right off the bat. Cooks was inconsistent early in the season. Sometimes very good, sometime not so much. Same thing with LaFell. Both became far more consistent as the season went on. People were labeling Amendola a bust his first year here. Hogan didn't come on until later in the season. Patten didn't really start to contribute in any significant way until mid to late October his first year. And Stallworth was an unique player because he was only used sparingly for a couple of big plays a game. He probably had a package of plays rather than had the entire playbook. But many of those receivers are known for their football intelligence.

But notice you didn't mention a WR who was a free agent in the last 6-7 years? Of those receivers you listed, the latest any of them were acquired were Hogan and LaFell in 2017. The Pats haven't acquired a WR in free agency that picked up the offense consistently since then. The closest you have is Bourne.

I think you may be confusing intelligence with recognition.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Packers fans constantly complain about their draft classes, especially regarding a lack of offensive playmakers? And have done for the past decade at least.

Yes. And the Packers had A Rogers, who many felt was better than TB12, and won 1 SB. We would have to be idiots to become Packers East.

 

[Rob0729]

I think you may be confusing intelligence with recognition.

Recognition and intelligence are intertwined. You have to have certain level of intelligence to be able to read and diagnose a defense. You don't have to be book smart. But you gotta be football smart.

 

[Rob0729]

If you remember Amendola's first game, he caught I think 10 passes and we won that game because of him. I think he pulled a groin muscle and was ineffective for a while because of that.

Either way, Amendola spent a year in the Patriots' system with the Rams before he got to the Patriots. He played under McDaniels the year before.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Those two are reaches based on what we've seen so far, or haven't seen.

And speaking of bartenders, I was in the North End a while back and went to a restaurant to see a server from my favorite restaurant that I knew had gone to that place to work. I went in and sat at the bar, ordered a wine and dinner from the bartender. I had never met the man before and when I went back there a few weeks later the guy remembered my name, the wine I drank and what I ate. That guy's going places in that business.

I tended bar 10 years and fortunately had a good memory, really increased the tips when they walked in the door, and I had their drink waiting for them.

 

[VrabelJr]

I hope Wolf adapts this new system with some things he’s learned because BB’s system yielded 6 Lombardi’s to GB’s one. GB has also been famous for choking in the playoffs the last decade plus.

 

[1960Pats]

Yes. And the Packers had A Rogers, who many felt was better than TB12, and won 1 SB. We would have to be idiots to become Packers East.

Aaron Rogers was the reason the Packers only won 1 SB, just like BrINT Favre was before him. They actually had decent players to work with for many years.

Going 4-13 after 4 years of a steady decline would have me jumping for joy over a 9-8 season and a playoff berth.

 

[1960Pats]

I tended bar 10 years and fortunately had a good memory, really increased the tips when they walked in the door, and I had their drink waiting for them.

Absolutely. I was stunned when I walked into that place when he called me by my name and remembered my wine and food. The place isn't even a favorite of mine but I can't wait to go back and see him again.

 

[VrabelJr]

#


I think system meant more back then because there wasn't the WR talent in the league like there is today. The Pats won two Super Bowls with Troy Brown and David Patten as the starting WRs. No swipe at those guys, but I don't think either in their prime could start on about a quarter of the teams in the league now. I think both would be considered #3 WR teams like Miami, Philly, 49ers, etc.

The league has changed. That was Belichick's problem. He refused to adapt.

And there is evidence that the system on offense doesn't work anymore. It didn't work here. It didn't work in Las Vegas with more talent. It didn't work when either Judge used it for the Giants or Patricia used it with the Lions.

BB did evolve though. Hence Moss, Gronk, and Hernandez. The problem is we lacked talent the last few years. Scheme can only make up for so much and my criticism of BOB is that he did a worse job of scheming than Josh McD or even Patricia did.

In general fans focus too much on offensive systems. The modern day NFL and really for the last 10 years is a huge melting pot. The difference between EP and West Coast in the NFL today is numbers vs colors in play names. Different teams slightly emphasize certain concepts like RPO and outside zone more than others, and that’s largely based on personnel, but play action and synergy between run to pass and pass to run is the bread and butter. The differences make up less than 15-20% of play calls.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The route receivers run in the Perkins/Erhardt system are contingent on the defensive alignment on the play. Every receiver has multiple routes on every play and they have to determine the route based on how the defense lines up on that play. A receiver has a different route whether the CB is playing off or press or if the defense is man or zone. A receiver needs to diagnose the defense and figure out the correct route. A player's success in that system is very much tied to their intelligence.

Agree on sight adjustments. However you don't need to be a Mensa candidate to play WR in this offense but you do need to read coverage.

Part of the problem of the last two years is that the receivers are not running the same routes that the QB thought they were supposed to run. Whether it was Mac or Zappe reading the defense wrong or the receiver reading it wrong, there were plenty of times where the QB threw it to a spot where the receiver wasn't. For all Mac's faults, reading defenses presnap is one of his strengths. So I assume more often than not, it was the receiver reading the wrong route.

That and the QB is not good at reading defenses and going through progressions which needs to be in concert with the WRs making the proper sight adjustment.

And of the guys you listed, a lot of them took a while to pick up the offense.

Only Moss and Welker were clicking on all cylinders right off the bat. Cooks was inconsistent early in the season. Sometimes very good, sometime not so much. Same thing with LaFell. Both became far more consistent as the season went on. People were labeling Amendola a bust his first year here. Hogan didn't come on until later in the season. Patten didn't really start to contribute in any significant way until mid to late October his first year. And Stallworth was an unique player because he was only used sparingly for a couple of big plays a game. He probably had a package of plays rather than had the entire playbook. But many of those receivers are known for their football intelligence.

Define "a while"... a few weeks? C'mon...

No...they are known for being talented WRs who run good routes.

Name one receiver who sucked here and went on to become a 1000 yd receiver elsewhere.

But notice you didn't mention a WR who was a free agent in the last 6-7 years? Of those receivers you listed, the latest any of them were acquired were Hogan and LaFell in 2017. The Pats haven't acquired a WR in free agency that picked up the offense consistently since then. The closest you have is Bourne.

Hogan was 2016. Lafell was 2014. Cooks was 2017. Josh Gordon did fine when he was here. A Brown would have easily kicked ass here if was sane. Byrd had his best year here. So did Bourne. Why? Because they run good routes.