The Official Who's Up & Who's Down Thread

[mgteich]

Sound like Bose State to me.

Counting on Maroney as the blocker is a four wide receiver set is just asking for disaster.

Moss and Tate on the outside, Edelman and Welker in the slot, Maroney in the backfield, Brady under center. You spread them out. From that formation, you could run Maroney either by a straight handoff (because the other team has a lot of DB's out there, and every one is spread out, there should be a good amount of running room) or a draw; or you could go play-action; or you could do a straight drop back with Maroney blocking; or you could send the receivers on one side down the field and run a swing pass to Maroney to that side, which has been vacated by the WR's and DB's heading down the field; or you could run little WR screens to either Edelman or Welker.

You could run so many variations off this set. And I prefer Maroney to Faulk in this set because (a) he's a better runner than Faulk is; (b) he's actually a pretty good receiver; and (c) other teams see Maroney and think run, and it gives them much more to think about (in my opinion).

 

[ivanvamp]

Sound like Bose State to me.

Counting on Maroney as the blocker is a four wide receiver set is just asking for disaster.

Boise State with, eh, *much* better personnel. Works for me. But they spend way too much time in the shotgun for my liking. Starting out under center gives the offense more options and, therefore, gives the defense more stuff to have to defend. I even like starting out in a 3-WR set with Hernandez on the line, where he would be covered by a LB. Then you shift and bring the WR who is isolated around to create a 3-WR set on one side, and slide Hernandez out to the other side, where he is now one-on-one with a LB.

Good night.

 

[letekro]

I see a lot of "downs" for Pryor, which I think are misplaced. He is an excellent interior pass rusher/penetrator. There is a spot for that type of player on this team and he fulfilled that role to perfection in the first half last night. He is NOT a gap controlling NT in the 3-4, but he should not be marked down for that anymore than VW should be marked down for not providing a great interior pass rush.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Down: Butler

Is there any way he loses his starting spot to wheatley or mccourty? i just didn't see the improvement from last year. i was much higher on him than what he displayed last night.

How in the hell did he break so late on Bush's TD? Everyone else saw it coming his was except him, I don't know where he was looking.

 

[Feep50]

I was on thee road last night so didn't see any of the game. I forget who posted the link for highlights, but thx for that link!

After reading all the previous posts, my overall impression is that we have a young, improving nucleus of future core players and that is very, very encouraging. Chung, Vollmer, Edelman, Tate, etc etc

Rookies in that mix of core future stars G-Force, McQuirky, The Spike-ster, etc etc


What my mind keeps coming back to is the big misses like Crable and possibly Brace. But I suppose that's all part of building a team. Enjoyed reading all of the posts in this thread and looking forward to seeing how this version of the Patriots pans out in the coming months.

 

[mgteich]

The reason I picked Boise State is that they are one of the best teams in the country, with one of the best offenses. And, yes, I understand that a Boise State offense would work for you. That was exactly my point.

This is the nfl. We do NOT rely on four wide receiver sets. When used, it is ESSENTIAL that the running back or h-back be a top blocker, and be able to be great at picking up the blitz. Faulk does that. It is hoped that Hernandex may be able to do that. Even Morris can play that role. Maroney cannot.

Boise State with, eh, *much* better personnel. Works for me. But they spend way too much time in the shotgun for my liking. Starting out under center gives the offense more options and, therefore, gives the defense more stuff to have to defend. I even like starting out in a 3-WR set with Hernandez on the line, where he would be covered by a LB. Then you shift and bring the WR who is isolated around to create a 3-WR set on one side, and slide Hernandez out to the other side, where he is now one-on-one with a LB.

Good night.

 

[Ring 6]

I see a lot of "downs" for Pryor, which I think are misplaced. He is an excellent interior pass rusher/penetrator. There is a spot for that type of player on this team and he fulfilled that role to perfection in the first half last night. He is NOT a gap controlling NT in the 3-4, but he should not be marked down for that anymore than VW should be marked down for not providing a great interior pass rush.

I have yet to see this excellent interior pass rushing that I keep hearing about.
I understand he has decent quickness for his size and looked good against future shelf stockers last preseason, but I have yet to see this pass rushing skill everyone seems to think he have actually happen on the field against the quality of OL that will be on the field in the regular season.
He is fighting for a spot on the roster, saying he cant do his primary job is not a great statement for his chances.

 

[condon84]

How in the hell did he break so late on Bush's TD? Everyone else saw it coming his was except him, I don't know where he was looking.

Yeah, he fell asleep. He had outside contain and shouldn't have been looking inside in the first place. On another play, I saw him come up and make the tackle on an outside run (or maybe a screen), but he showed he's willing to come up and be physical. I'm glad this goof happened in a preseason game. I still have high hopes for this kid.

 

[Ring 6]

Boise State with, eh, *much* better personnel. Works for me. But they spend way too much time in the shotgun for my liking. Starting out under center gives the offense more options and, therefore, gives the defense more stuff to have to defend. I even like starting out in a 3-WR set with Hernandez on the line, where he would be covered by a LB. Then you shift and bring the WR who is isolated around to create a 3-WR set on one side, and slide Hernandez out to the other side, where he is now one-on-one with a LB.

Good night.

The shotgun is used to help Brady get rid of the ball quicker. 4 wide with the QB under center is inviting a blitz against a QB who cant read it, and find a receiver as quickly.
You cant get the benefits of the shotgun without being in the shotgun, and with 4 wide, you need them.

 

[mgteich]

I agree about Pryor. The top five defensive linemen get almost all the reps. The #6 was in on less than 6% of the reps last year. That leaves the option of having the #6 be a developmental player.

We have our four man rotation in Warren, Wilfork, Warren and Wright. They can play all the DL roles in the 3-4 and 4-3. We also have Lewis as our #5. He seems to be a solid player and veteran, and able to fill that role when needed.

SO WHERE DO WE GO WITH THE NUMBER SIX SPOT?
I agree that Pryor is fighting for that last defensive back spot. So are Weston, Brace and Deaderick.

I have yet to see this excellent interior pass rushing that I keep hearing about.
I understand he has decent quickness for his size and looked good against future shelf stockers last preseason, but I have yet to see this pass rushing skill everyone seems to think he have actually happen on the field against the quality of OL that will be on the field in the regular season.
He is fighting for a spot on the roster, saying he cant do his primary job is not a great statement for his chances.

 

[eom]

I agree about Pryor. The top five defensive linemen get almost all the reps. The #6 was in on less than 6% of the reps last year. That leaves the option of having the #6 be a developmental player.

We have our four man rotation in Warren, Wilfork, Warren and Wright.

we do....?

 

[mgteich]

We did.

Now, we have Warren, Wilfork, Wright and Lewis.

we do....?

 

[ivanvamp]

The reason I picked Boise State is that they are one of the best teams in the country, with one of the best offenses. And, yes, I understand that a Boise State offense would work for you. That was exactly my point.

This is the nfl. We do NOT rely on four wide receiver sets. When used, it is ESSENTIAL that the running back or h-back be a top blocker, and be able to be great at picking up the blitz. Faulk does that. It is hoped that Hernandex may be able to do that. Even Morris can play that role. Maroney cannot.

Maybe he can't. And I am not relying on four-WR sets. It's just one way to get Edelman and Welker on the field together, since someone wondered how to do that.

 

[ivanvamp]

The shotgun is used to help Brady get rid of the ball quicker. 4 wide with the QB under center is inviting a blitz against a QB who cant read it, and find a receiver as quickly.
You cant get the benefits of the shotgun without being in the shotgun, and with 4 wide, you need them.

You don't need to be in the shotgun in order to operate a 4WR set, I don't think. Operating from under center allows the threat of a straight handoff that you don't have from the shotgun.

Every set has its strengths and weaknesses, obviously.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

How in the hell did he break so late on Bush's TD? Everyone else saw it coming his was except him, I don't know where he was looking.

That was a weird play. They were in a 3-3-5 nickel with Wilfork as a defensive left side 1-technique, Wright at RDE playing 3-technique, Mayo at the Will off the line over center. The only guys on the defensive right side of center were Butler, Wright, and Sanders. Wright was eadily tied up by the tackle, who started playside of him. Butler's man sealed Sanders, leaving him one-on-one with Bush. He shouldn't have gotten beaten so thoroughly to the outside, but he was in a tough spot regardless, since even if he contains the play properly, Spikes was a long way away to help make the play. A bad play, but an equally bad play-call/lack of adjustment letting themselves get shifted so far left by concentrating too much on the pass.

 

[letekro]

I have yet to see this excellent interior pass rushing that I keep hearing about.
I understand he has decent quickness for his size and looked good against future shelf stockers last preseason, but I have yet to see this pass rushing skill everyone seems to think he have actually happen on the field against the quality of OL that will be on the field in the regular season.
He is fighting for a spot on the roster, saying he cant do his primary job is not a great statement for his chances.

His skill set was, is, and will always be getting off the ball and penetrating. That is his primary job. He's a role player and the only one on the DL with that skill set. They tried this previously with Klecko but he was just too small. He's not an everydown player, but in the pass-happy NFL he will get a ton of snaps.

And I'm not sure why you are referring to him as a pre-season wonder? He played often and well during the regular season when healthy.

 

[deters]

Williams has value as a blocker - nice job on the goal line, I thought. I think McKenzie's safe, they're just bringing him along slowly.
At least I hope so... :nosmile:

Mckenzie hasn't played a live action game of football since December 20th 2008. He is just rusty give him time.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Maybe he can't. And I am not relying on four-WR sets. It's just one way to get Edelman and Welker on the field together, since someone wondered how to do that.

Why can't you just have Moss-Welker-Edelman on the field?

 

[Kontradiction]

Anybody notice that clumped 4-wide formation that we were running at times last night? Was that used much, if at all, in 2009?

 

[Ring 6]

You don't need to be in the shotgun in order to operate a 4WR set, I don't think. Operating from under center allows the threat of a straight handoff that you don't have from the shotgun.

Every set has its strengths and weaknesses, obviously.

You dont have to be, but you are setting your QB up to be killed.
When he is in the shotgun, he can see the blitz, see the play develop and get the ball to the hot route.
It is extremely harded to blitz effectivel against the 4 wide from the shotgun than under center.