The Official Patriots vs Gaints Pre-Season Game Thread

[Demosthenes]

I did not think Tebow had a rebound performance left. I thought Rex Ryan ruined Tim Tebow for good.

How good is Tim Tebow holding a clipboard for 19 games this season as the third string quarterback?

Props to you for stepping up and saying that.

If Josh can undo what Rex and company did to Tebow, and even get him back to where he had him in 2010, it would be a good foundation to work from as QB3.

Bunch of big "ifs" there, to be sure.

 

[supafly]

I have to actually witness improvement before making a re-evaluation. The interior offensive line (McDonald, Kline, Stinkowitch) was terrible in pass protection for Tim Tebow.

The overall lack of quality depth on the New England Patriots roster this season is quite alarming:

Interior Offensive Line
Wide Receiver (Dobson raw, Boyce raw)
Tight End
Defensive Tackle (Forston raw, Vellano raw)
Defensive End (Bequette raw, Buchanan raw, Cunningham MIA, Francis MIA)
Cornerback (Ryan raw, Cole stinks)
Safety (Harmon raw, T. Wilson raw)

Interior OL--Mankins is fully healthy (much better than last year's situation), Wendell, Connelly, Cannon--and maybe even a return from Nick McDonald who was a Scarnecchia project. Doesn't seem much different from last year at all.

TE--the loss of AH hurts, but you really think the depth last year of Hooman and an injured Fells in 2012 was better than this year? I hardly think so. They've added a nice young prospect in Sudfeld, and have a healthier Fells now. They've also gotten Jake Ballard back, and even if he's brought about slowly in the next 4-6 weeks it's much better than Hooman.

WR--Welker was swapped for Amendola, so they decided to go younger. After that Llyod, Branch, and Edelman weren't exactly setting the world on fire. Yes it's "raw," but a change definitely needed to be made. Thompkins may even be an upgrade on Llyod, and getting Branch off the roster in replacement for young speed could be a big positive. Edelman even has another year in the system, so that could be a benefit.

DE--how was it any better last year with a rookie and a guy moving from LB?

CB--definitely has to be better. We have Talib starting from day one, along with Dennard who is another year polished and not a rookie. Arrington should be playing more in the slot instead of outside. Those first 3 players are an improvement.

S--McCourty is playing there from day one, so that's half the battle. We've seen some pathetic depth there in the past 2-3 yrs. It's been worse.

The only real concerns I have are the defensive tackles, but it's not like we were stacked at the position lately and we went to the SB and the AFCCG in the past 2 yrs with some bums. Aside from that it's nothing more than the usual hopes that health holds up.

 

[ATippett56]

Props to you for stepping up and saying that.

If Josh can undo what Rex and company did to Tebow, and even get him back to where he had him in 2010, it would be a good foundation to work from as QB3.

Bunch of big "ifs" there, to be sure.

Tebow has guts, I'll give him that. Tebow took a beating due to porous interior offensive line play, especially in pass protection.

 

[ATippett56]

Interior OL--Mankins is fully healthy (much better than last year's situation), Wendell, Connelly, Cannon--and maybe even a return from Nick McDonald who was a Scarnecchia project. Doesn't seem much different from last year at all.

Since Nick McDonald was not on the field tonight, I can't comment on who was not there. The New England Patriots desperately need an upgrade at backup offensive center.

TE--the loss of AH hurts, but you really think the depth last year of Hooman and an injured Fells in 2012 was better than this year? I hardly think so. They've added a nice young prospect in Sudfeld, and have a healthier Fells now. They've also gotten Jake Ballard back, and even if he's brought about slowly in the next 4-6 weeks it's much better than Hooman.

I was disappointed with the performance from the tight ends tonight.

WR--Welker was swapped for Amendola, so they decided to go younger. After that Llyod, Branch, and Edelman weren't exactly setting the world on fire. Yes it's "raw," but a change definitely needed to be made. Thompkins may even be an upgrade on Llyod, and getting Branch off the roster in replacement for young speed could be a big positive. Edelman even has another year in the system, so that could be a benefit.

Thompkins hopefully matches Lloyd's production from last season. Hopefully Amendola can fulfill the Welker role and remain healthy for 16 regular season games. Edelman was on the roster last season. I have become very disappointed with Dobson. Boyce is still raw.

The theme of my original comment was the critique of the roster depth not the starters.

 

[Christiancat]

Good game tonight. Mallet did a great job, but still has work to do in some areas. I thought Tebow did very well tonight. I was dissapointed he got sacked a few times and threw an interception. However, his play tonight was an improvement over the first two preseason games. Obviously Tebow still has things he needs to work on. Sims also deserves a lot of credit for getting open and in the right spot to make those plays. Overall, happy for the team and happy to see Tebow get vindication and show he's still got it.

 

[manxman2601]

I haven't read through this thread,; i watched the game on replay. I assume and hope that George Winn got some love. He's been my guy since we signed him and I've been disappointed that he's had so little opportunity in pre-season. I described him previously as BJGE v2.0 - I actually think he's potentially better than that as he has better burst. He's such a decisive runner. Still think he struggles to make the team as a result of the numbers game - I'll just have to hope that he makes it through to the PS.

Also Quentin Sims - the receiver we were hoping Aaron Dobson would be. Sims might not have the Dobson speed (although I'm not sure Dobson has the Dobson speed considering how much he struggles to get open on deep routes but Sims was terrific on those two TDs.

Whilst I don't think there's a Dobson/Sims battle, there might be a Sims v Mark Harrison battle. If you could stash one of those away on IR or PS ready for next season, who gets the job?

Also, those 7th round picks are looking very nice. I thought all three Rutgers draftees did well but Beauharnais was outstanding and Michael Buchanan flashed some genuine upside.

In terms of potential, it was an exciting game.

 

[Oswlek]

Since Nick McDonald was not on the field tonight, I can't comment on who was not there. The New England Patriots desperately need an upgrade at backup offensive center.

I was disappointed with the performance from the tight ends tonight.

Thompkins hopefully matches Lloyd's production from last season. Hopefully Amendola can fulfill the Welker role and remain healthy for 16 regular season games. Edelman was on the roster last season. I have become very disappointed with Dobson. Boyce is still raw.

The theme of my original comment was the critique of the roster depth not the starters.

The funny thing is the depth is almost certainly improved over last year and without a doubt no worse.

WR - I'll grant you that the top two probably won't have the same numbers, but the #3 and #4 combined for less than 400 yards. I'll eat my shirt if that happens again.

TE - Fells was injured all year and both he and Hooman were first year acquisitions. Experience, health + Ballard and the position looks deeper.

OL - Minus Ducky and McDonald, this position could be weaker at depth, though it should be noted that neither of those guys were considered significant acquisitions.

RB - About the same with better depth at running back and slightly less depth at passing back.

CB - Much better with Ryan appearing to be a keeper and Cole looking improved.

S - Better by default considering two rookies were the #4 and #5, and Chung was the #3.

ILB - Way, way, way better. And that isn't saying it strong enough.

DT - A little worse, but were Deaderick and Forston really anything to write home about last year? If and when Armstead comes back, it could be improved as well.

DE - I'm disappointed that we aren't seeing a leap from Francis and Bequette looks like a waste (I think Francis might even be cut, personally) but the usable depth last year was Scott, Cunningham and Francis. I like Jermaine more than most, but even my estimation of his play isn't setting the bar that high. I do agree that this could be a problem area if Nink or Jones gets hurt, but that happened last year and they got by. Plus, with ILB being so improved, it is easier to slide Collins or HT over for emergency snaps than it was last year.

DE, OL and DT have potential depth issues, but it isn't that far off what they've had available the past few years and those seasons went pretty well. And things look much better everywhere else. :rocker:

 

[The Brandon Five]

TE - Fells was injured all year and both he and Hooman were first year acquisitions. Experience, health + Ballard and the position looks deeper.

Ballard didn't help himself by giving up on that post route. That should have been a TD. I don't think Bill looks to kindly on players who don't play until the whistle. See: Asante Samuel on the Tyree play.

 

[Big-T]

Ballard didn't help himself by giving up on that post route. That should have been a TD.

If Ballard kept running a post route it still wouldn't have been a TD, Tebow threw toward the sideline didn't he?

 

[The Brandon Five]

nice play Sims!!..and that was to the right by Tebow......Sims made a great adjustment...I'm beginning to get binky fever

Mallett whiffed on the same play to the left.

Just sayin'...

 

[JackBauer]

DE - I'm disappointed that we aren't seeing a leap from Francis and Bequette looks like a waste (I think Francis might even be cut, personally) but the usable depth last year was Scott, Cunningham and Francis. I like Jermaine more than most, but even my estimation of his play isn't setting the bar that high. I do agree that this could be a problem area if Nink or Jones gets hurt, but that happened last year and they got by. Plus, with ILB being so improved, it is easier to slide Collins or HT over for emergency snaps than it was last year.

??

I thought Bequette looked good last night. I'd rather keep Bequette/Buchanan than Francis.

 

[Oswlek]

??

I thought Bequette looked good last night. I'd rather keep Bequette/Buchanan than Francis.

In another post I said Bequette played himself back onto the bubble last night, but he had fallen so far behind with awful performances the first three weeks that I don't think it will be enough. He might return to the PS, though.

 

[JackBauer]

In another post I said Bequette played himself back onto the bubble last night, but he had fallen so far behind with awful performances the first three weeks that I don't think it will be enough. He might return to the PS, though.

Weren't they playing him out of position in some of the previous games, though (at least in the first game)?

 

[Oswlek]

Weren't they playing him out of position in some of the previous games, though (at least in the first game)?

Unless you consider RDE out of position, no.

 

[JackBauer]

Unless you consider RDE out of position, no.

Bequette was forced to play out of position early in the preseason, taking on the role of a five-technique defensive end in a 3-4, rather than his usual seven-technique defensive end in a 4-3. He struggled in the role, both in holding his ground against double teams and in shedding blockers from his more-interior position. At 6-foot-5, 265 pounds, J.J. Watt he is not.

Michael Buchanan, Jake Bequette May Have Saved Spots on Patriots Roster by Shining in Final Preseason Game | New England Patriots | NESN.com

As I said. Seemed like they were also doing something similar with Benard, ostensibly to see if he could be Cunningham redux.

 

[The Brandon Five]

If Ballard kept running a post route it still wouldn't have been a TD, Tebow threw toward the sideline didn't he?

I'd have to see a replay, but from what I remember the pass went over Ballards head upfield. They showed him giving up on the route and then trying to recover.

 

[ATippett56]

The funny thing is the depth is almost certainly improved over last year and without a doubt no worse.

TE - Fells was injured all year and both he and Hooman were first year acquisitions. Experience, health + Ballard and the position looks deeper.

Fells and Ballard were both cut today, so my eyes did not deceive me during the four preseason games.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yes, because the Patriots running the 43 is significantly different to the Dolphins running a 43 front. Also, Buchanan doesn't have Wake's burst off the line. Alhough unofficial, he's at least a tenth slower over the 40 yard dash. That is significant when you're a pass rusher. That said, Buchanan has a significant advantage in the 3 cone drill.

Furthermore, don't misrepresent actuality with not pulling for a player. That's your mistake. I'd like Buchanan to make the team and I'd like him to star. The more players of quality on the Patriots roster the better.

40 yard times really don't matter for pass rushers. Chandler Jones runs a 4.77, and we all know that he's quick in every way that he needs to be.

Just think of it this way: Buchanan is at least as big as Ninkovich. To my eyes, it actually looks like he's ~10 pounds heavier.

 

[BradyFTW!]

??

I thought Bequette looked good last night. I'd rather keep Bequette/Buchanan than Francis.

Agreed - Bequette was good last night. If nothing else, I think he has some value as DE on running downs, since he seems to be pretty good at maintaining control, setting the edge, and is capable of getting leverage and collapsing the pocket if the RT overplays his hand.