***THE OFFICIAL 2014 New England Patriots training camp thread***

[shmessy]

This myth has been debunked multiple times now. Further, he's not doing anything of note in TC either. If he was, he would be clearly winning the starting job already and the coaching staff wouldn't be throwing everything at the wall still to see what sticks. Like supafly, I've been a huge advocate of leaving Ryan at CB too but, given that Harmon can't even beat out the likes of Chung or Wilson yet and given the fact that we have an embarrassment of riches at CB, I wouldn't mind seeing Ryan put back there. He has a nose for the ball and if his head is consistently turned toward it, the defense could really stand to benefit.

Bill Belichick 8/12: 'This will be a good opportunity to evaluate our team' | Patriots.com

Q: Have you seen a lot of improvement out of Duron Harmon this year over last year?

BB: Yeah, definitely. Sure, absolutely. Yeah, much better understanding of what we do, much better understanding of what our opponents do. Better anticipation. He had a great offseason physically – bigger, stronger, faster, more explosive. Yeah, I would say it’s all positive; all above last year’s bar.​

 

[supafly]

I still think that it's more of a situation where although Harmon hasn't exactly jumped out due to great playmaking thus far, the decision to rotate and give others opportunities is more of a normal and expected TC exercise.

I'm not sure why anyone should have expected a rookie from last year who only saw 36% of the reps to have stepped in and "automatically" have the position locked up? That wouldn't make much sense to me.

Which one is it? Has Harmon really sucked so far? Or is more of what I'm suggesting, in terms of allowing others to battle for the spot, per usual? At the end of the day, I still expect Duron Harmon to be the main S2. Just my opinion.

 

[Mack Herron]

The problem is that, if Chung is the best you've got, you don't have much at all. Numbers are irrelevant at that point.

True, but at least folks like Harmon, Thomas, Ryan, and possibly WIlson at least have the potential to be solid contributors. I don't see that potential in Hooman or the other TEs, for instance.

 

[Ring 6]

He's been one of their top 3 corners in camp this year. They're not going to cut him, sorry.

We will see.

 

[shmessy]

I still think that it's more of a situation where although Harmon hasn't exactly jumped out due to great playmaking thus far, the decision to rotate and give others opportunities is more of a normal and expected TC exercise.

I'm not sure why anyone should have expected a rookie from last year who only saw 36% of the reps to have stepped in and "automatically" have the position locked up? That wouldn't make much sense to me.

Which one is it? Has Harmon really sucked so far? Or is more of what I'm suggesting, in terms of allowing others to battle for the spot, per usual? At the end of the day, I still expect Duron Harmon to be the main S2. Just my opinion.

Yeah, I'm not getting the reason for the Harmon negativity either. He was a rookie last year and he saw much more of the field (and didn't do so badly at all) than anyone expected.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I'm not sure why anyone should have expected a rookie from last year who only saw 36% of the reps to have stepped in and "automatically" have the position locked up? That wouldn't make much sense to me.

I think people saw it this way due to the fact of our lack of depth or really lack of anyone else "decent" to put back there with Mccourty so people penciled him in. People wanted Ryan but still don't think it will happen...maybe though. Chung seems to be having a (dare i say it) decent camp

 

[supafly]

Yeah, I'm not getting the reason for the Harmon negativity either. He was a rookie last year and he saw much more of the field (and didn't do so badly at all) than anyone expected.

We all have our own personal opinions of certain players/talents etc, so I'm not meaning to suggest that I think Harmon is some great safety. Like you, I just don't fully understand the negative insinuation of allowing different players to get first teams reps, and how that has suddenly equated to the thought that Belichick is not feeling optimistic about Duron Harmon. I would expect different players to get first team reps at the position, as it's not one that was anything close to "locked up."

I'm not necessarily seeing the relationship of the 2, but that's just me. It's quite possible that others who have attended live TC practices have come away with the feeling that Harmon isn't looking too hot; hence the question that I threw out.

For the record--I still agree with the majority that the safety position, as a whole, could have been improved, but that's a bit of a different topic that is webbed off from this discussion.

 

[supafly]

I think people saw it this way due to the fact of our lack of depth or really lack of anyone else "decent" to put back there with Mccourty so people penciled him in. People wanted Ryan but still don't think it will happen...maybe though. Chung seems to be having a (dare i say it) decent camp

Definitely one of the intriguing positional battles of TC/preseason.

A recent thread that took a poll last month showed about 70% (IIRC) feeling that Harmon had the spot locked up. I have a feeling that would change a bit if taken now, down to about 50-55% (off the top of my head guesstimate).

I'm just wondering if it's more of the fact that Harmon hasn't looked very good, which judging by the beat writers' reports I'm not too sure I'd agree with due to the lack of bringing him up altogether; or the fact that many here are less sure due to the fact that Chung/Wilson/Ryan have been getting first team reps?

At the end of the day, I suppose one could argue that the 2 go together on some level.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Classic Inigo Montoya line.

 

[Kontradiction]

How does one debunk somebody's opinion that a player looked half decent?

If that's their opinion based on what they saw then I have to question their eyes, their knowledge of quality safety play, or both. It would also seem the team agrees with my stance since Harmon has yet to take the bulk of the snaps at the second safety position and they're still cycling through bodies. But, to give you guys a taste of your own medicine, what does the coaching staff know?

 

[Rob0729]

Worried about revis getting toasted by maclin this week.

Jeremy Maclin toasts Revis in Eagles-Pats practice - NFL.com

Maybe you should go to Jetsinsider.com. If you go over there, there seems to be a lot of concern that Revis is going to be a dud because Revis never took plays off and he always dominated in practice when he was with the Jets.

It's funny but it is only one Eagle reporter reporting that Maclin is consistently toasting Revis and everyone in the world is buying it as fact.

 

[Kontradiction]

Bill Belichick 8/12: 'This will be a good opportunity to evaluate our team' | Patriots.com

Q: Have you seen a lot of improvement out of Duron Harmon this year over last year?

BB: Yeah, definitely. Sure, absolutely. Yeah, much better understanding of what we do, much better understanding of what our opponents do. Better anticipation. He had a great offseason physically – bigger, stronger, faster, more explosive. Yeah, I would say it’s all positive; all above last year’s bar.​

​

As opposed to trashing the player and saying that he's been mediocre at best?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Definitely one of the intriguing positional battles of TC/preseason.

A recent thread that took a poll last month showed about 70% (IIRC) feeling that Harmon had the spot locked up. I have a feeling that would change a bit if taken now, down to about 50-55% (off the top of my head guesstimate).

I'm just wondering if it's more of the fact that Harmon hasn't looked very good, which judging by the beat writers' reports I'm not too sure I'd agree with due to the lack of bringing him up altogether; or the fact that many here are less sure due to the fact that Chung/Wilson/Ryan have been getting first team reps?

At the end of the day, I suppose one could argue that the 2 go together on some level.

I would agree with those numbers. 50% I think he is back there week 1 but not a lock if he is in there week 1.

 

[supafly]

It would also seem the team agrees with my stance since Harmon has yet to take the bulk of the snaps at the second safety position and they're still cycling through bodies.

I can see your take on it 100%, but at the same time I wonder if a permanent starter won't be taking the bulk of the reps for another week or so?

For the record, I'm really unsure of what to think, so I'm just tossing stuff around out loud. I think if I had to bet though, I'd definitely stick with my original thought that Harmon is the main S2 when all is said and done, and that this is something something of a normal process at a position that didn't have a clear cut answer to it.

 

[supafly]

Harmon has not looked very good in what I have seen of him at camp and in the preseason, his tackling angles and reaction time is not up to par with Wilson or even Chung’s in my opinion. I almost feel like he and Wilson traded bodies.

Thanks for the response and analysis, Brady6. I appreciate it.

By the way, do we have any idea about the extent of TWilson's recent missed practices?

 

[Ring 6]

If that's their opinion based on what they saw then I have to question their eyes, their knowledge of quality safety play, or both. It would also seem the team agrees with my stance since Harmon has yet to take the bulk of the snaps at the second safety position and they're still cycling through bodies. But, to give you guys a taste of your own medicine, what does the coaching staff know?

So anyone who has a different assessment than you is blind or stupid?
Your call to authority is extremely weak. Practice reps in the 3rd week of camp are not exactly the litmus test for the coaching staff opinion on a player, especially here.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Maybe you should go to Jetsinsider.com. If you go over there, there seems to be a lot of concern that Revis is going to be a dud because Revis never took plays off and he always dominated in practice when he was with the Jets.

It's funny but it is only one Eagle reporter reporting that Maclin is consistently toasting Revis and everyone in the world is buying it as fact.

I saw Boston Writers tweeting about how it looked half speed for him as well. Howe was one I think?

I can't imagine what they are saying over at the cesspool..Millner better then revis? I bet!

 

[Ring 6]

Maybe you should go to Jetsinsider.com. If you go over there, there seems to be a lot of concern that Revis is going to be a dud because Revis never took plays off and he always dominated in practice when he was with the Jets.

It's funny but it is only one Eagle reporter reporting that Maclin is consistently toasting Revis and everyone in the world is buying it as fact.

If you read the comments even he isnt actually saying that. He mentioned beating him the one time that has been beaten to death, and then a couple of holding calls.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

Maybe you should go to Jetsinsider.com. If you go over there, there seems to be a lot of concern that Revis is going to be a dud because Revis never took plays off and he always dominated in practice when he was with the Jets.

It's funny but it is only one Eagle reporter reporting that Maclin is consistently toasting Revis and everyone in the world is buying it as fact.

My thought is simply that Revis didn't want to run top speed in practice and risk pulling a hamstring. He's probably spent a lot of time these last two years building up strength and tightness in his hamstrings to augment the strength of his repaired ACL. Maclin was all pumped to beat Revis deep, and Revis let him run after covering the initial move, letting him have his "win" when it doesn't count. Given that Maclin pulled-up lame with a hamstring issue today on yet another deep route, I'd say that Revis made the right call, the play-to-the-whistle purists notwithstanding.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I still think that it's more of a situation where although Harmon hasn't exactly jumped out due to great playmaking thus far, the decision to rotate and give others opportunities is more of a normal and expected TC exercise.

I'm not sure why anyone should have expected a rookie from last year who only saw 36% of the reps to have stepped in and "automatically" have the position locked up? That wouldn't make much sense to me.

Which one is it? Has Harmon really sucked so far? Or is more of what I'm suggesting, in terms of allowing others to battle for the spot, per usual? At the end of the day, I still expect Duron Harmon to be the main S2. Just my opinion.

I honestly don't know who to expect, but the conventional wisdom that it is his job to lose is more a question of case of upside optimism. He played well for a rookie last year, so we expect him to do well for a 2nd year player this year, but his continued improvement is far from guaranteed, let alone that his rate of improvement is faster than his competition.

I tend to think that Wilson got written-off prematurely by this board, based on two similar badly blown plays, one of which cost us a game. Coach B might have had more reason to write him off, but lacking that information, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Harmon showed better coverage skills last year, but he also showed a very Chungish tendency to take himself out of plays when trying to stop the YAC. Wilson never had that issue, but he also hasn't been tested in coverage this year. It won't take much more than one blown coverage to land him at the bottom of that 3-way competition. Chung has shown good run support, but he was pretty good in his fits before; it was only in the open field that he had issues. I need to see more of him to see if he's improved in that department to say nothing of his coverage issues, which I think are pretty much fundamental limitations at this point. Harmon hasn't stepped-up yet, but he'll get his chance this week and next. Regardless, I think we have 3 serviceable safeties there plus Ryan. With improved CB play and accordingly simpler safety reads, I could see any one of them doing the job on an improved Patriots defense this year.