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The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching/Brady

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Ian, Dec 6, 2009.

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Who Do You Blame For the Patriots Problems?

  1. Offense

    26 vote(s)
    16.6%
  2. Defense

    24 vote(s)
    15.3%
  3. Coaching

    95 vote(s)
    60.5%
  4. Tom Brady

    12 vote(s)
    7.6%
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  1. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    #17 Jersey

    For the sake of keeping this place from looking like it's melting down, let's restrict this discussion to this one thread until at least tomorrow. Please place your vote in the above poll, and once everyone calms down and we can have a rational discussion about each of these areas maybe I'll be a little easier to get along with at that point...but right now it's just madness on here.

    I don't blame everyone for being disappointed - but let's try and keep this place somewhat sane. Otherwise it's going to be an even longer week.

    So here's how this will work: please restrict yourself to ONE POST in this thread of where you feel the problem is with this team, along with why you feel that way. I will post a new thread on the forum for each category based on the BEST RESPONSES in this thread to start discusssions so we can break it down further.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  2. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot Rookie

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    Can we have an all of the above option?
  3. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    I blame my ex-wife...she burned my lucky Pats cap three years ago and it's been downhill ever since!![​IMG]
  4. dtbrks

    dtbrks Rookie

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    Coaching..

    offense and Defense are getting outplayed in the second half by a large margin and I think it's the coaching..
  5. DougFlutie

    DougFlutie Banned

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    This poll points the finger at offense if coaching isn't a selection. I would wager that many of those who chose coaching weren't blaming Belichick but the people under him.
  6. Rob0729

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    Yeah, I would go with that answer too. It is too simplistic to point to one area. There are enough things wrong with this team right now to blame solely on the offense, defense, Brady, or the coaching.

    But if I had to pick one, I would pick the coaching because it covers both sides of the ball.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  7. SoCal Pmen

    SoCal Pmen Rookie

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    All of the above
  8. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    I'm blaming you Ian ... you are to blame.

    Pees and O'Brien are trying to keep up with all the suggestions here and now they are lost.

    If this site did not exist then they could just listen to Bill ... instead of learning on the job here.

    Seriously ... there must be a JAG OUT THERE WHO CAN REPLACE KACZUR.

    He could go 50 yards backwards if the play lasted longer ... he is the ultimate wimp.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    Coaching and D for the Season, all of the above today
  10. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    #17 Jersey

    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    You can also elaborate on what you feel is wrong, and I'd even love to hear a few people talk about what they would do to correct the issues. Let's make this a really good thread with constructive breakdowns of each area.
  11. The Intimidator

    The Intimidator Rookie

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    The problem is the talent on this defense and are inability to be able to put pressure on the QB and not being able to cover. This defense is horrid, and the reason why we are only giving up the 3rd least points in the league because they lead in the league in time of possession. This defense stinks period.

    It is also the lack of the offensive execution, which has a lot to do with the coaching. Penatlies at the worst times, the inability to not pick up 3rd downs at the most critical times of the game. This is mostly has to do with coaching. This I agree has a lot to do with O'Brien and the coaching staff.

    Defense plus bad offensive coaching= the mess that we are in.


    Simple as this.
  12. DougFlutie

    DougFlutie Banned

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    Defense gave this team a chance to win.

    They made multiple stops in the 2nd half.

    The offense scored a total of 7 points the last 3 quarters, no points the last 25 minutes.




    You can't always blame a defense just because in any loss they gave up the last meaningful points...
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  13. Joker

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    it was coaching today...primarily the O play calling...2nd and goal at the 4 and you call a fade into triple coverage?..ridiculous...going for it 4th and six instead of a FG at the end of the 1st half?...please....the "stretch play" on first down with 5 minutes to go against a fast sideline to sideline D??...this ain't rocket science...
  14. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    Every passing play it's the same scenario.

    The ball is snapped - Kaczur gets bullrushed.

    Brady moves a step or 2 left and loses focus for a brief second.

    The opponent's LT now is closer to Brady.

    So Brady steps up but by now the delayed pressure is coming up the middle.

    Tom rushes the throw to differing results.

    Get Kaczur out of there and it's an entire new ballgame for Brady.
  15. Bill B.

    Bill B. Rookie

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    I really think that the biggest problem with this team is the lack of a power running game. When we had Antoine Smith and Corey Dillon, the Patriots could milk the clock when they had a lead. We don't take any time off the clock when we need to. The Patriots are relying too much on Brady and the passing game. I think the defense is young and in transition. We definitely need to put more pressure on the QB.
  16. PatsSox363804

    PatsSox363804 Rookie

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    the main problem is coaching, especially on offense. I say this because the defense is a work in progress and I don't expect them to be world beaters at this point. The offense is supposed to be the strength. We continually do ridiculous things like force plays to Moss (thats on Brady) and throw deep on 2nd and 6 (thats coaching and Brady.) We go away from game plans that work and start chucking it downfield. Brady is turning into Favre, it's depressing.
  17. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    #17 Jersey

    My feeling is that defensively they're going to need to better address their pass rush heading into this offseason. They've been one of the bottom teams over the past few seasons in sacks, and unfortunately as much as people here have discussed how poor the secondary is playing, it's quite unfair to ask a bunch of young guys to cover receivers for six or seven seconds.

    When you give a quarterback all that time to survey the field, with receivers running back and forth, eventually someone is going to get open. Coverages are in place to deal with specific routes and situations, but all that goes out the window when receivers have time to get away from their man and make a play.

    Henne had a lot of time today with a solid pocket around him, especially as the game wore on and you could tell the players were getting tired chasing their receivers around in the 80-degree heat. They need to do a better job of disrupting that - because unfortunately that is a big area of concern.

    Look around the league at the stats. There are guys in this league who have almost as many sacks in total as this entire team does. But that aside sacks aren't even the biggest concern - any pressure would be good to see at this point. Watch the game again and you'll see the pocket he had today...it was just ridiculous.
  18. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    Week after week no pocket protection AT ALL.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  19. muzz

    muzz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Coaching, and the constant locking of threads every time we lose.
  20. Laurence Maroney's Dreads

    Laurence Maroney's Dreads Rookie

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    You know, I voted for the offense, but I suppose I could throw coaching in there instead. And it's not Belichick's fault, as a lot of people here have been quick to conclude. Most coaches are at their best when they have to worry about one thing. Belichick, despite being a great coach, is no exception. He's been at his best when he has to worry about 1 thing. He was at his best as a DC because he just had to worry about scheming defenses and putting people in the right position on one side of the ball. He was later at his best as a HC when he just had to scheme mid week, and serve as overseer on Sundays.

    How do we get back there? We need a truly trustworthy OC, DC, or preferably both. Weis and RAC will obviously be brought up because they're both currently unemployed. But look at in game sideline shots... Belichick just looks overwhelmed over there. He's an excellent coach, but he's not God. He can't be the HC, OC and DC all at the same time. Now, more than ever, I'm convinced that Weis, RAC or both will be back next season.
  21. OldNEPatsFan

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    The coaching, especially Bill. I think it's time to hire a good OC and DC. Bill has done nothing since he lost Charlie and Romeo. Bill should stick to just coaching and not personnel decision. The past 5 years of the draft have been less than mediocre with Bill in charge. Why stockpile draft picks when you make bad selections. Why say there are no DE/OLB's who meet the Pats profile of 6'4" 4.60 40, then waste 2 draft picks on Derrick Burgess. Why waste a draft pick and trade to get a WR and sign another old WR who are useless. Why draft a WR who is injured. Why draft run stopping D-Lineman when you have no pass rusher. Why on earth do you keep signing an old LB so he can sit on the bench and take up a roster spot.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  22. Rob0729

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    Ian, I wasn't criticizing the poll or that you are simplifying the problem. I think people just like to blame one side of the ball for losing even when it is clear that both sides played their part in the loss. It isn't just for fans on this site, but fans for most teams.

    I see the problems as follows:

    - The lack of pressure from the pass rush. Even when they seems to penetrate the line, they don't seem to get anywhere near the QB
    - The secondary is getting picked apart in large part that the opposing QB has time to throw.
    - Moss is getting too easily taken out of games. It is one thing to get shut down by Darrelle Revis twice, but Mike McKenzie and Vontae Davis?
    - Brady is making poor decisions and throws
    - The o-line lately has struggled to protect Brady and have been inconsistent all year opening holes for the run
    - O'Brien is a rookie signal caller and is definitely showing it
    - Pees' defense is too passive and when they go into a prevent defense, comatose most of the time
    - Belichick is making stupid decisions like not kicking the field goal today which probably would have won the game.

    Fixing the problems will be tougher though, but here is what I will do:
    - I think the Pats need to play with a little desperation on defense. This season is slipping away fast and they need to get a little more aggressive
    - The offense needs more patience. O'Brien needs to call a better game, but Brady needs to stop thinking he needs to make every play. The INT in the red zone should have had Brady just throw it away.
    - Ultimately, there needs to be an upgrade in talent at least on the defensive side of the ball. The only players currently starting in the front seven who should be starting next year are Wilfork, Warren, and Mayo. They need to upgrade the other positions and move guys like TBC, Wright, Green (if he is here), Woods, and Guyton to supporting roles while letting Thomas and Burgess go.
  23. eagle eye

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    People want to blame O'Brien and they say we are playing out of the shotgun too often. The main reason we play out of the shotgun so much is that our line is not able to defend very well. Brady is in the shotgun so that he can see pressure coming and get rid of the ball.

    Our D has problems too, the pass rush is almost non-existent. We have an inexperienced secondary, the players have the talent and will get better. Its been a huge change this year for the D with Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel and Hobbs all gone. A lot of leaders there and guys that younger players would look up to.

    Its easy to blame the co-ordinators but personally I think inexperience and in the case of the offensive line some players that are just not good enough which has been the problem with this team in our bad performances.
  24. Rob0729

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    I think O'Brien's play calling is a problem (but as I stated not the only problem). I still don't see the shotgun itself being the problem though. Indy uses it about as much as the Patriots (after today, it may be more) and they are 12-0. This offense didn't have problems with McDaniels using it so much.
  25. DougFlutie

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching


    I think this is backwards. I don't think any O-line can protect that well against a pretty much constant pass rush. The only guy who makes his O-line look good against repeated passing is Peyton, who is probably the greatest QB ever.
  26. alvinnf

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    One thing that is hurting this team right now is. They seem to be stuck between fronts on defense. They used to have the personnel to be a good 34 team, but still play 43 when necessary. TBC is not the elephant or the Joker or whomever in the 34. This team is closer to a 43 team trying to run 34. With the loss of a true 34 DE we are stuck with undersized guys at two critical positions. So now teams can just scoop Vince up on the inside and they are off to the races. My fix would be to play Vince as a 43 under tackle inside and rotate Pryor or Wright as the over tackle. Leave Green and Warren on the outside. Just push the pocket all day long. Burgess and TBC are worthless edge rushers.
  27. MoLewisrocks

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    You could take what Ian said and square it. We get no pressure unless we all out blitz and we pay for that and then go into a shell. We allow pressure from 3 and 4 so 5 or more is plant Brady day. He didn't make a bad throw all day. Bad decision maybe to go to the $9M man in tight coverage on a fade. I believe some were calling for more of those not that long ago... He had no options on the last snap as he was about to be sacked. The sad reality is Moss catches balls when he is wide open due to blown coverage or going across the middle where he is down on contact with no YAC or occasionally he flashes the one handed thing. But I think he mostly does that consistently in practice, when he practices...

    They play him like he's the player they apparently see in practice. It doesn't translate on the field in game situations except against lesser competition. And sometimes not even then. Been this was since December of 2007 but it's like the elephant in the livingroom around here. I hope that actually is what Wes was elluding to. Unfortunately unless Moss starts playing like the guy who arrived here in Setember 2007, there isn't much else they can do at this juncture in this season. If he doesn't I hope Bill finally has the sense to move on in another direction. 'Cause this is like tapping out Corey Dillon redux only he stays on the field. Focus on the impeoving the OL thereby improving the TE's and RB's and try finding a couple of hard nosed 6' kids with Welkeresque makeup and line 'em up outside and let Brady develop them like he did Branch and Givens.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  28. Art_Vandelay421

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    Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

    Agreed...Kazur is this team's Max Lane. Where is the foot speed?
  29. nabwong

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    #12 Jersey

    We would have won had BB not gone for 4th down in the 2nd quarter.
  30. patsfan13

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    I am OK with the secondary. A couple of blown coverages but more often than not we see great accuracy by opposing QB's ie Manning, Brees & now Henne. This is because of NO Pressure, on many completions the DB has good coverage the QB is making a perfect throw. IF we were able to apply and make the QB uncomfortable not nearly as many great throws.

    We need 1 or 2 DL and a couple of LB that can apply pressure. TBC has done well but is not a stud PR, Pryor shows promise as a DL who can apply pressure. Burgess and THomas are a waste of cap space at this point. The DB have done a good job IMO given the lack of any pressure on opposing QB's
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