So what's the deal with the retired numbers?

[Biffins]

What is the bar for retiring numbers? Has the standard been toughened in recent years? I assume so otherwise we would have a ton more retired numbers in the coming years from the SuperBowl winning teams over the past 2 decades.

Here are the people who spent alteast 5 years with Patriots in NFL Hall of Fame (so excluding Curtis Martin and Junior Seau) currently

Nick Buoniconti (1962-1968)
John Hannah (1973-1985)
Mike Haynes (1976-1982)
Andre Tippett (1982-1993)

And both Buoniconti and Haynes spent major and best chunks of their careers with Dolphins (2x SuperBowls) and LA Raiders (1x SuperBowl) respectively.

And yet the actual retired numbers are

Gino Cappelletti 20 New England Patriots 1960—70
Mike Haynes 40 New England Patriots 1976—82
Steve Nelson 57 New England Patriots 1974—87
John Hannah 73 New England Patriots 1973—85
Bruce Armstrong 78 New England Patriots 1987—2000
Jim Lee Hunt 79 New England Patriots 1960—70
Bob Dee 89 New England Patriots 1960—67

One could argue only Hannah, Cappelletti, and perhaps Haynes deserve it under this criteria. There are tons of players with better careers than Bob Dee or Jim Lee Hunt and their numbers are not retired. Not to mention Nelson played alongside Tippett and wasn't better than Tippett. So what gives? Can someone explain why Nelson is retired when Tippett is not and Tippett is in NFL HoF and Nelson isn't, when they both were LBs in same era and spent entire careers with Patriots.

I am assuming the Patriots HoF was created to honor players without retiring numbers, since retiring so many numbers can become impractical in the large NFL rosters.

So, if no numbers were retired since the creation of Pats HoF in 1992. I would be ok.

BUT, we retired Armstrong after Pats HoF was already around. So what's the deal there?

And are we going to still retire numbers in the future or not? Is Armstrong the new (stricter) standard. Are we going to retire Brady's 12? Do we have other Patriots with better and more illustrious careers than Armstrong (6 Pro Bowls and 2x Second-Team All-Pro) ? I'd argue yes. Gronkowski (4x Pro Bowls, 4x First Team All-Pro) , Logan Mankins (7x ProBowls, 1x First Team All-Pro 5x Second-Team All-Pro) , Richard Seymour (3 Super Bowls, 7 Pro Bowls, 3x First Team All-Pro and 2x 2nd Team All-Pro), Vince Wilfork (2x SuperBowls, 5 Pro Bowls, 1x First Team All-Pro, 3x Second Team All-Pro), Ty Law (3x SuperBowls, 5x Pro Bowls, 2x First Team All-Pro).

Are we going to retire Gronk, Mankins, Seymour, Wilfork and Law as well? Or none of them and only Brady. Is Brady the only name we ever retire again and the rest just get HoF.

Do we un-retire some numbers from the past, as some other teams have done?

 

[jah]

Have other teams
really unretired numbers before?

I've always myself wondered things like OP but assumed I just didn't get it because I'm young. It does seem like the bar was kinda low at first. I don't think we'll see any retired numbers from this era besides 12, although that's probably how it should be.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

While I appreciate the gesture of retiring a number, I also love to see players carry on the legacy of those who came before them. I'd even be open to giving out #12 down the road. What an honor to receive that number!

And let's be honest, if any number deserves to retire permanently, it's #17.

 

[Dragda]

I don't think the Patriots officially retire numbers.

 

[bormio]

Nobody is going to wear #12 for a very, very, very long time.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

I think they need to un-retire some if not all of the numbers as those numbers should be in use. Being inducted into the Patriots HOF is the new equivalent of getting a retired number. The only retired number should really be #12.

 

[Bradyking12]

Nobody is going to wear #12 for a very, very, very long time.

12 and 87 should be retired once Brady and Gronk are done imo

 

[Tony2046]

I think they need to un-retire some if not all of the numbers as those numbers should be in use. Being inducted into the Patriots HOF is the new equivalent of getting a retired number. The only retired number should really be #12.

I think you're right on the money. The Pats HOF didn't exist until 1991. They both seem to serve the same purpose except retiring numbers has a limitation while theoretically Pats HOF inductees can be limitless.

But yeah #12 should be retired.

 

[jmt57]

If Steve Nelson's number is unretired I may have to change my screen name.

 

[primetime]

No one will wear #12 again. But #80, #33, #54... all have been issued regularly. Even Gronk isn't iconic enough to see a retired number, I don't think.

The major problem with retired numbers is that NFL rules restrict certain positions to certain ranges, so there really is a strict limit on numbers that a team can retire. It wasn't until the mid 2000s that receivers could choose to wear numbers 10-19 by choice. It took a while to become accustomed to top receivers wearing numbers in the teens that had previously been worn by training camp fodder.

 

[supafly]

I don't think we'll see any retired numbers from this era besides 12, although that's probably how it should be.

I'm pretty sure that I heard @AndyJohnson is actually starting a petition to change Garoppolo's number to #12.

Lucky for many of us, we'll be able to just remove the old nameplate and slap on the new. Aside from a few more letters, no one will ever know the difference.

 

[DarrylS]

If the Patriots retire all the numbers we anticipate they will and you have 90 players in TC, then there might be a problem.. unless you move on into the 100's, which is probably not allowed by the NFL..

 

[Tony Cahncuhd]

Until they start allowing uniform numbers in triple digits, retiring any more numbers is pretty unworkable. Here you have a sport with 53 players (90 for training camp) and a finite set of 99 (minus the retired ones) to distribute among them. In camp, they're already doubling up players on the same number between offense and defense. What happens when only 52 numbers are left? You stop retiring and start un-retiring? We already have Halls of Fame to honor the best. Why do we need to retire numbers too? I can see doing it in basketball, but not a sport with so many players requiring numbers.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

It was an insidious plan by the 3 digit numbers because they were left out. Those 3 digit number are patient ans will wait it out.

I suspect, they could use a much smaller (100) digit number and go with the larger 2 digit number on the shirt (as long as there are no duplicated. Like you couldn't have 137 and 37...as much as BB would like that because Edleman would be 83 and Amendola would get 183)

I don't like the idea of unretiring a number

 

[Ivan]

Nobody is going to wear #12 for a very, very, very long time.

I don't believe #12 will ever be used by a Patriot again.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Nobody is going to wear #12 for a very, very, very long time.

...what I said about the Bruins' #7 when they traded Phil...

 

[bormio]

I don't believe #12 will ever be used by a Patriot again.

I agree, and believe that is the way it should be.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Regarding retired numbers...Numbers do not tell the whole story. Anybody who really wants to consider themself a fan of the team will learn and appreciate why each of those guys had their number retired, and not make deceiving statistical comparisons between eras. At this point, retiring 12, and only 12, makes sense.

As for the Hall, Super Bowl participation shouldn't be a significant factor; if so then you'd need to include the '76 team. To close out this decade, the just thing will be to induct the rest of those glaring omissions from the 70's. Ideally, worthy players from the 80's and 90's will make it and then we can move on to Seymour, Vrabel, Welker, etc.

 

[bormio]

2 reasons it makes sense to retire the #s of all baseball players who make the HOF, but not in football. First, it is a numbers problem - you need the jersey numbers in football. Second, membership in the baseball HOF is a bit more exclusive. Hannah's # should be retired, not just #12.

 

[aluminum seats]

Boy, you guys are really going out on a limb saying Brady's number will be retired. Bold take.