Sirius QB Poll

[Bostonian1962]

Has he found a time machine that takes him back in time, where he can then knock Belichick over the head just before he Drafts Tommy?

Outside of that, Manning ain't winning any more Super Bowls - Unless they fall in his lap, need an example? 2006 - We blow a 21 point lead and Peyton plays Rex Grossman in the Super Bowl. Gimmie a freakin' break.

At least Manning has one edge: His hall of fame wide receiver is being protected by a massive cover up, and may get away with a felony.

 

[ScottieC]

At least Manning has one edge: His hall of fame wide receiver is being protected by a massive cover up, and may get away with a felony.

Never thought about that one. I can see him running down the side line with the CB and him saying,"Dude, you don't let me catch this ball, I'm gonna shoot you...seriously I WILL shoot you."

What's the CB going to do, he don't want to die.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Marino - Duper and Clayton et all........

Goober 18 - Harrison / Wayne / Stokley / Edge / Clark et all........

Favre - SSharpe / AFreeman / Donald Driver / Edgar Bennett et all.....

Montana - Jerry All Planet / Dwight Clark / Roger Craig et all............

Bradshaw - Swann / Harris / John Stallworth et all.......

Troy Aikman - Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith et all.........

Tom Brady - (Dealt a 2 of Clubs and a 4 of Spaids in a game of BlackJack for 7 straight years) staring across the table at face cards. This piece of football greatness walks off with the damn chips. Tommy you are my hero and the greatest player to lace up cleats....................

 

[signbabybrady]

Marino - Duper and Clayton et all........

Goober 18 - Harrison / Wayne / Stokley / Edge / Clark et all........

Favre - SSharpe / AFreeman / Donald Driver / Edgar Bennett et all.....

Montana - Jerry All Planet / Dwight Clark / Roger Craig et all............

Bradshaw - Swann / Harris / John Stallworth et all.......

Troy Aikman - Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith et all.........

Tom Brady - (Dealt a 2 of Clubs and a 4 of Spaids in a game of BlackJack for 7 straight years) staring across the table at face cards. This piece of football greatness walks off with the damn chips. Tommy you are my hero and the greatest player to lace up cleats....................

Marino didn't play his whole career with duper and Clayton.

And Farves list is about as stacked as Brady's list especially when you add Moss into Bradys (even one year of Moss).

I never liked that argument. It is OK if you are trying to explain why someones stats are better but there is so much more than stats that goes into the GOAT evaluation that to point to his weapons doesn't do much. Who had the better lines, who had the better coaching, competition, ........

 

[BradyToMoss]

Marino didn't play his whole career with duper and Clayton.

And Farves list is about as stacked as Brady's list especially when you add Moss into Bradys (even one year of Moss).

No Marino didn't play his whole career with Duper and Clayton, he only played with both of those guys for 9 years................whoa

Sterling Sharpe in his prime was better than ANYTHING Brady has had to work with aside from Moss last season. Keith Jackson, Bubba Franks, Antonio Freeman and Donald Driver were a combo Brady could only have dreamed of playing with his first 6 years in this league...........

Greatness is taking a 7th round draft pick like David Givens and turning him into that season's most hotly sought after FA-WR. Greatness is taking a 5'8" half pint WR Deion Branch and turning him into a Superbowl MVP and forcing a team to fork over a 1st round draft pick to get what as we've always knew was just a #2 WR on most teams as we've now learned in Seattle (even when healthy over there). Both of these guys should buy Brady those same Movado watches he advertises with those fat signing bonuses Tommy Greatness made those two guys.

Greatess is taking an East Boston cast off TE and turning him into the second-coming of John Mackey in the snowbowl game.

Greatess is taking a Reche Caldwell and giving him his greatest and most optimum statistical season he'll ever see.

Greatness is Tom Brady.

 

[ScottieC]

No Marino didn't play his whole career with Duper and Clayton, he only played with both of those guys for 9 years................whoa

Sterling Sharpe in his prime was better than ANYTHING Brady has had to work with aside from Moss last season. Keith Jackson, Bubba Franks, Antonio Freeman and Donald Driver were a combo Brady could only have dreamed of playing with his first 6 years in this league...........

Greatness is taking a 7th round draft pick like David Givens and turning him into that season's most hotly sought after FA-WR. Greatness is taking a 5'8" half pint WR Deion Branch and turning him into a Superbowl MVP and forcing a team to fork over a 1st round draft pick to get what as we've always knew was just a #2 WR on most teams as we've now learned in Seattle (even when healthy over there). Both of these guys should buy Brady those same Movado watches he advertises with those fat signing bonuses Tommy Greatness made those two guys.

Greatess is taking an East Boston cast off TE and turning him into the second-coming of John Mackey in the snowbowl game.

Greatess is taking a Reche Caldwell and giving him his greatest and most optimum statistical season he'll ever see.

Greatness is Tom Brady.

Yea, I like this BradytoMoss guy - That's the kind of post that just stops a thread. How are you gonna argue any of that?

Nice.

 

[Sting]

Brady is ahead of Payton Manning that's what matters to me.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Marino - Duper and Clayton et all........

Goober 18 - Harrison / Wayne / Stokley / Edge / Clark et all........

Favre - SSharpe / AFreeman / Donald Driver / Edgar Bennett et all.....

Montana - Jerry All Planet / Dwight Clark / Roger Craig et all............

Bradshaw - Swann / Harris / John Stallworth et all.......

Troy Aikman - Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith et all.........

Tom Brady - (Dealt a 2 of Clubs and a 4 of Spaids in a game of BlackJack for 7 straight years) staring across the table at face cards. This piece of football greatness walks off with the damn chips. Tommy you are my hero and the greatest player to lace up cleats....................

Great post! We PatsFanners can make this thing alot more respectable. We just gotta help out Tommy. Dolphin fans sure are voting. I hope our side takes the time to do so.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Well, when I posted, Brady had a lousy 4%. You think 4% is alot of love, when somebody like Marino who never won squat leads all QBs? I sure don't.

That's not a debate we're going to resolve here. I tend to agree that rings trump stats (I take Bradshaw over Staubach in his era for the same reason), but Marino's stats were pretty darn great and dissing him doesn't speak well of our football knowledge or savvy.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I'd like to see a poll on here asking how many people even know who Otto Graham is. I'd be surprised if it was 50%. Kids today don't seem to be interested in the history of football.

Yeah, it's a shame. I think one of the great things about football and the NFL is the history. I find reading about not just the early days of the NFL but the evolution of the professional game before the NFL to be fascinating. It gives a real appreciation of and respect for how difficult it is to achieve at a high level over time in this sport and league.

You also can't even think about trash-talking great players like Marino or P. Manning when you understand their place in the game and the records they've broken or hold. I can understand partisanship and I can be as much a Homer as the next guy, but it bothers me when people show such little knowledge of and respect for the game by mouthing off about players like these. Ultimately, they're just embarrassing themselves, but it still bothers me.

 

[Bostonian1962]

That's not a debate we're going to resolve here. I tend to agree that rings trump stats (I take Bradshaw over Staubach in his era for the same reason), but Marino's stats were pretty darn great and dissing him doesn't speak well of our football knowledge or savvy.

I know I'm not dissing Marino. He was truly a great QB. But, when I see Marino leading all QB's, and in particular OUR Tom Brady, 29% to 8%, it seems to me that perhaps, just perhaps, the FLA fans are voting heavily. I just felt the urge to give the best fans on the planet (New England fans) a bit of a heads up on the situation.

 

[They_Hate_We]

Speaking of history, it's nice to see Hannah at the top of the Guard poll on the same page

 

[Bostonian1962]

Speaking of history, it's nice to see Hannah at the top of the Guard poll on the same page

You're right. It's interesting that the same voters that have Marino blowing away Brady as the best QB, got the guard position correct...................IMHO.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I know I'm not dissing Marino. He was truly a great QB. But, when I see Marino leading all QB's, and in particular OUR Tom Brady, 29% to 8%, it seems to me that perhaps, just perhaps, the FLA fans are voting heavily. I just felt the urge to give the best fans on the planet (New England fans) a bit of a heads up on the situation.

I guess one man's "dis" is another man's "firmly stated comment," but you did refer to him as "somebody like Marino who never won squat." That kind of comes across to me as a "dis," but we're just arguing about nonsense like this because we're still 10 days from Training Camp.

 

[Bostonian1962]

I guess one man's "dis" is another man's "firmly stated comment," but you did refer to him as "somebody like Marino who never won squat." That kind of comes across to me as a "dis," but we're just arguing about nonsense like this because we're still 10 days from Training Camp.

Point taken. Those words are a bit of a dis, but all I was getting to is that normally the greatness of a QB is very much related to how many rings they have. I'm somewhat surprised to see Marino running away with the poll.

You're right, we are just killing time until camp, is all.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Since stats are tough to compare across decades (consider the changes to the rules protecting QB's and allowing Receivers to run free five yards past the line), if we just rank the SB era QB's on "Rings won" plus "NFL MVP's won" plus "SB MVP's won" and, if we get fancy and assign, completely arbitrarily I admit, three points for a ring, two points for being an NFL MVP and one point for being a SB MVP, this is what we get. (Notes: I'm just putting this forward, not as "Gospel truth," but as a way to TRY to take "opinion" out of the discussion as much as possible. It leaves off great QB's like Tarkenton and Jim Kelly because they never won an SB and it certainly doesn't give the career performance of Dan Marino its just due. Y. A. Tittle, Sonny J. and the Dutchman are left off because the vast majority of their careers preceded the SB era. It also ignores the discussion of "pre cap" and "post cap.")

Montana: 19 Points (4 rings, 2 NFL MVP's, 3 SB MVP's)
Bradshaw: 16 (4, 1, 2)
Brady: 13 (3, 1, 2--"Incomplete")
Aikman: 10 (3, 0, 1)
Starr: 10 (2, 1, 2)
Elway: 9 (2, 1, 1)
Favre: 9 (1, 3, 0--Incomplete?)
P. Manning: 8 (1, 2, 1--Incomplete)
Young: 8 (1, 2, 1)
Theismann: 8 (2, 1, 0--one ring in strike season)
Staubach: 7 (2, 0, 1)
Bob Griese: 6 (2, 0, 0)
Stabler: 5 (1, 1, 0)
Namath: 4 (1, 0, 1)
Marino: 2 (0, 1, 0) [Included for comparison despite no rings]

It will be interesting to see how NFL historians/pundits/fans rank Brady vis a vis Bradshaw and Montana if Brady gets his fourth ring. Bradshaw and Montana were undefeated in SB appearances and that might give them an edge. Tommy has gone to the big game and lost, with the ball in his hands in the final minute.

 

[signbabybrady]

Since stats are tough to compare across decades (consider the changes to the rules protecting QB's and allowing Receivers to run free five yards past the line), if we just rank the SB era QB's on "Rings won" plus "NFL MVP's won" plus "SB MVP's won" and, if we get fancy and assign, completely arbitrarily I admit, three points for a ring, two points for being an NFL MVP and one point for being a SB MVP, this is what we get. (Notes: I'm just putting this forward, not as "Gospel truth," but as a way to TRY to take "opinion" out of the discussion as much as possible. It leaves off great QB's like Tarkenton and Jim Kelly because they never won an SB and it certainly doesn't give the career performance of Dan Marino its just due. Y. A. Tittle, Sonny J. and the Dutchman are left off because the vast majority of their careers preceded the SB era. It also ignores the discussion of "pre cap" and "post cap.")

Montana: 19 Points (4 rings, 2 NFL MVP's, 3 SB MVP's)
Bradshaw: 16 (4, 1, 2)
Brady: 13 (3, 1, 2--"Incomplete")
Aikman: 10 (3, 0, 1)
Starr: 10 (2, 1, 2)
Elway: 9 (2, 1, 1)
Favre: 9 (1, 3, 0--Incomplete?)
P. Manning: 8 (1, 2, 1--Incomplete)
Young: 8 (1, 2, 1)
Theismann: 8 (2, 1, 0--one ring in strike season)
Staubach: 7 (2, 0, 1)
Bob Griese: 6 (2, 0, 0)
Stabler: 5 (1, 1, 0)
Namath: 4 (1, 0, 1)
Marino: 2 (0, 1, 0) [Included for comparison despite no rings]

It will be interesting to see how NFL historians/pundits/fans rank Brady vis a vis Bradshaw and Montana if Brady gets his fourth ring. Bradshaw and Montana were undefeated in SB appearances and that might give them an edge. Tommy has gone to the big game and lost, with the ball in his hands in the final minute.

Very interesting breakdown...It wuold be interesting though maybe way to time consuming to add into the mix Playoff winning percentage and regular season winning percentage.


I don't buy the Brady went to the big game and lost as reason he would be considered not as good if he won his fourth. The goal every year is to win the SB so if you don't get one than you lose. Why is worse to have performed worse and not make it to the bowl than to have made it and lost. IMO if Brady gets 4 you could use his loss as a tiebreaker because the others wouldn't have a fifth appearance. But lets save this for the day that Brady gets is fourth ring.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Very interesting breakdown...It wuold be interesting though maybe way to time consuming to add into the mix Playoff winning percentage and regular season winning percentage.


I don't buy the Brady went to the big game and lost as reason he would be considered not as good if he won his fourth. The goal every year is to win the SB so if you don't get one than you lose. Why is worse to have performed worse and not make it to the bowl than to have made it and lost. IMO if Brady gets 4 you could use his loss as a tiebreaker because the others wouldn't have a fifth appearance. But lets save this for the day that Brady gets is fourth ring.

Thanks. I was thinking of throwing in SB appearances, but decided that muddied the waters too much (see Kelly, Tarkenton). I didn't include W/L pctg. because the argument here is that "the ring's the thing." I also think it's a more relevant measure when evaluating a HC. I do think the pre-cap/post-cap distinction is relevant, though, and so it should probably bump TB and PM up a bit, but Aikman straddled the eras, as did Elway, so I don't know what to do with them from that perspective.

As for the question of whether it is meaningful that Bradshaw and Montana both never lost an SB in which they started, I think it is. However, the point that Brady got there that extra time is also valid. If he gets his fourth and picks up his third SB MVP and/or another league MVP, then I don't think there would be any debate that he is the greatest QB ever. Even now, he already has to be in any serious discussion of who is.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Since stats are tough to compare across decades (consider the changes to the rules protecting QB's and allowing Receivers to run free five yards past the line), if we just rank the SB era QB's on "Rings won" plus "NFL MVP's won" plus "SB MVP's won" and, if we get fancy and assign, completely arbitrarily I admit, three points for a ring, two points for being an NFL MVP and one point for being a SB MVP, this is what we get. (Notes: I'm just putting this forward, not as "Gospel truth," but as a way to TRY to take "opinion" out of the discussion as much as possible. It leaves off great QB's like Tarkenton and Jim Kelly because they never won an SB and it certainly doesn't give the career performance of Dan Marino its just due. Y. A. Tittle, Sonny J. and the Dutchman are left off because the vast majority of their careers preceded the SB era. It also ignores the discussion of "pre cap" and "post cap.")

Montana: 19 Points (4 rings, 2 NFL MVP's, 3 SB MVP's)
Bradshaw: 16 (4, 1, 2)
Brady: 13 (3, 1, 2--"Incomplete")
Aikman: 10 (3, 0, 1)
Starr: 10 (2, 1, 2)
Elway: 9 (2, 1, 1)
Favre: 9 (1, 3, 0--Incomplete?)
P. Manning: 8 (1, 2, 1--Incomplete)
Young: 8 (1, 2, 1)
Theismann: 8 (2, 1, 0--one ring in strike season)
Staubach: 7 (2, 0, 1)
Bob Griese: 6 (2, 0, 0)
Stabler: 5 (1, 1, 0)
Namath: 4 (1, 0, 1)
Marino: 2 (0, 1, 0) [Included for comparison despite no rings]

It will be interesting to see how NFL historians/pundits/fans rank Brady vis a vis Bradshaw and Montana if Brady gets his fourth ring. Bradshaw and Montana were undefeated in SB appearances and that might give them an edge. Tommy has gone to the big game and lost, with the ball in his hands in the final minute.

Nice breakdown. Favre's INTs in big games, to me, makes him a non-starter for best of all time. But, I digress. I like the way you did this.