Sign the Beast XVI -- Big Vince Wilfork!

[RobertWeathers]

in other words, you don't have an answer........got it

BTW, Thornton is more like Chris Jones than VW

from an age standpoint, yes....wilfork still has a couple of years left in him.......justin smith just hanging 'em up at 35, kevin williams is 35 and still in it and given the position, those players are perfect examples as is.....I know......the notion of an effective wilfork until age 35 is about as stupid as an effective brady until he's 40

keep trying though

Here is a news flash. Wilfork did not want to renegotiate.

Seeing that you have no idea what the DT market is and no idea what Wilfork's market is you really are uninformed and incapable of looking at multiple options.

Thornton is much better vs the run than CJ. Do your homework. Teams aren't paying big bucks for fattys anymore.

 

[Concussion Protocol]

Belichick tried to replace VW with 2 undersized rookies in 2013. Joe Vellano is a joke and shouldn't have even been on an NFL roster. I don't think that experience alone should lead anyone to conclude that VW cannot be replaced adequately by current-roster players and inexpensive acquisitions. FWIW, I'm a big Siliga fan. I think it's his time to shine if Vince doesn't return on the cheap.

 

[IllegalContact]

Here is a news flash. Wilfork did not want to renegotiate.

Seeing that you have no idea what the DT market is and no idea what Wilfork's market is you really are uninformed and incapable of looking at multiple options.

Thornton is much better vs the run than CJ. Do your homework. Teams aren't paying big bucks for fattys anymore.

whatever you need to tell yourself......the inside gaps are different than the outside ones......Thornton will get pushed around just the same

are you suggesting the pats sign him and give up a draft pick in the process? because that's idiotic

 

[RobertWeathers]

whatever you need to tell yourself......the inside gaps are different than the outside ones......Thornton will get pushed around just the same

are you suggesting the pats sign him and give up a draft pick in the process? because that's idiotic

You are so predictable.

Hes played all over the line and is considered one of the best run-stopping lineman in the NFL and has 3/4 4/3 versatility.

When it comes to other players, since you have no idea what you are talking about, this will help you get educated.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/02/eagles_have_decisions_to_make_on_defensive_end_ced.html

You were just complaining about Ron Brace. Here you have a 26 year old NFL proven DT who will cost you a 2nd rounder and at a reasonable salary.

How much guaranteed money would you pay VW? What is the market dictating? Do you have and educated opinion? Based on your responses I'm very skeptical.

 

[IllegalContact]

You are so predictable.

Hes played all over the line and is considered one of the best run-stopping lineman in the NFL and has 3/4 4/3 versatility.

When it comes to other players, since you have no idea what you are talking about, this will help you get educated.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/02/eagles_have_decisions_to_make_on_defensive_end_ced.html

You were just complaining about Ron Brace. Here you have a 26 year old NFL proven DT who will cost you a 2nd rounder and at a reasonable salary.

How much guaranteed money would you pay VW? What is the market dictating? Do you have and educated opinion? Based on your responses I'm very skeptical.

I'd rather be predictable than clueless......

what reasonable salary? if he's all that, the eagles will simply match the offer.....you need to move on from your fantasy

I get it.......it would be better to give Thornton the same money you could get Wilfork for, plush give up a 2nd round.......your genius is amazing.

I have a better idea......for the same money, bring back Wilfork and draft Hardison after your 7+ draft upgrades over wilfork are gone

also, you do realize that the pats were better against the run than the eagles were, and the pats only had one DL grade out above average per PFF......Wiilfork

you assume too much on your binkies

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'd rather be predictable than clueless......

Nice comeback........... Lame.

I get it.......it would be better to give Thornton the same money you could get Wilfork for, plush give up a 2nd round.......your genius is amazing.

You still don't get it. VW is better than a 34 year old Dockett that received $4m in 2015. That is THE market for VW. He will cost MORE than Thornton b/c he will be under the Pats controland and his mid-level .

I have a better idea......for the same money, bring back Wilfork and draft Hardison after your 7+ draft upgrades over wilfork are gone

I'll say it again....Wilfork wanted to test the market. The market said a 34 year old DT will cost $4m. VW did not want to renegotiate to a lower number. He wanted to test the market and will most likely get > $4m. Hardison is fine. I thought you were afraid of drafting a DT?

also, you do realize that the pats were better against the run than the eagles were, and the pats only had one DL grade out above average per PFF......Wiilfork

Can't compare players in schemes but if you want to go all stats here they were pretty much the same. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

you assume too much on your binkies

Are you going to sleep ok w/o Wilfork?

 

[RayClay]

We can all agree the draft is a crapshoot but according to http://walterfootball.com/draft2015DT.php there are ~7 players that have 1st/2nd round grades.

The second DT is listed as top 25. I was generous and said top 20. There are a lot of second round picks that might squeak into the first. Depth, just like I said.

When your second DT is only top 25, that's a weak draft for impact linemen. A strong year would be 3-4 in the first 10-15 spots.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

not meaningless because somebody else is going to have to play those snaps........currently, no such player exists on the pats roster. couple that with the need for a player who can support the run as well as wilfork.

which means at this point, the pats have near zero capacity to stop the run.......and no prospect for changing that

We have 9 picks ... And maybe Wilfork or/and Branch can join the team. There are plenty of FA that can
fill the space left and way cheaper.

 

[IllegalContact]

You still don't get it. VW is better than a 34 year old Dockett that received $4m in 2015. That is THE market for VW. He will cost MORE than Thornton b/c he will be under the Pats controland and his mid-level .

you make no sense........the mid level has nothing to do with the pats....that is only what the eagles decided to pay the guy........to get him so that the eagles don't match, you'll have to go higher PLUS give up a 2nd rounder.....most certainly not worth it.....at least understand what you are talking about before you talk

I'll say it again....Wilfork wanted to test the market. The market said a 34 year old DT will cost $4m. VW did not want to renegotiate to a lower number. He wanted to test the market and will most likely get > $4m. Hardison is fine. I thought you were afraid of drafting a DT?

again....your tiny brain fails to grasp the fact that whoever the pats draft, they will not be ready to be the man in the middle next year......and as in certain cases, they may never pan out.

Can't compare players in schemes but if you want to go all stats here they were pretty much the same. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

yes....but somehow, you can sit there and say Thornton is some kind of answer even though you have nothing to back that up

Are you going to sleep ok w/o Wilfork?

I'd sleep just fine without Brady or anyone else

don't complain when the pats can't stop the run next year

 

[IllegalContact]

the pats rush defense the past 2 years:
with wilfork(20 games): 4.0 ypc, 105ypg
without wilfork(12 games): 4.5ypc, 143ypg

the worst rushing defense in the NFL in 2014 was 141ypg

LOL @ the notion others have that they'll just replace him with someone cheaper and it will be an upgrade.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm really enjoying this. You are looking foolish.

you make no sense........the mid level has nothing to do with the pats....that is only what the eagles decided to pay the guy........to get him so that the eagles don't match, you'll have to go higher PLUS give up a 2nd rounder.....most certainly not worth it.....at least understand what you are talking about before you talk

Ok. So your position is that a 26 year old Thornton who is an above-average run defender in the 3/4 and 4/3 is not worth a 2nd rounder nor is he worth a 3yr/$12m deal. Thats your opinion but the problem is that you have demonstrated that you know nothing about Thornton nor the market for DTs. Therefore your opinion is about as uneducated as you are.

again....your tiny brain fails to grasp the fact that whoever the pats draft, they will not be ready to be the man in the middle next year......and as in certain cases, they may never pan out.

Nice name calling. Typical of posters who are ignorant to the facts, have baseless opinions, have failed at bringing facts to the table and have been poor at making a logical argument.

Lets see if you can comprehend this: The most economical plan that allows for a solid run D, provides youth and athleticism, and minimizes risk is Sig, sign Branch and draft one or two kids or bring in one rotational vet for the minimum and bring in a proven,young vet with solid production that you have salary control over.

So with that plan you have ~5 DTs + Easley that'll cost ~$7m in 2015...

Sounds like a better plan than paying VW $4m+ in 2015 to me.

yes....but somehow, you can sit there and say Thornton is some kind of answer even though you have nothing to back that up

Thornton is an established veteran that has produced -and excelled in run defense in both a 3/4 and 4/3. You can't get any better understanding of a player's body of work and how it fits into the Pats scheme.

I know all this is tough to absorb. Give yourself some extra time to process this.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

again....your tiny brain fails to grasp the fact that whoever the pats draft, they will not be ready to be the man in the middle next year......and as in certain cases, they may never pan out.

You dont know that. Stork was ready. In certain cases we keep a key player and he goes to IR two years in a row.
Why are you so upset , would you have kept Wilfork with his astronomical number?
Give a solution .

 

[RobertWeathers]

You dont know that. Stork was ready. In certain cases we keep a key player and he goes to IR two years in a row.
Why are you so upset , would you have kept Wilfork with his astronomical number?
Give a solution .

I'll answer for him since he and I have argued for 4 days on this topic.

His solution is to resign VW but he won't commit to a number other than something less than $8m and he won't suggest any current FA DT that fit into the current system. According to Illegal, the world ends without VW.

Good luck nailing him down. Oh, and if you challenge is nebulous opinion, he'll insult you. He might be off his meds so be careful.

 

[IllegalContact]

I'm really enjoying this. You are looking foolish.



Ok. So your position is that a 26 year old Thornton who is an above-average run defender in the 3/4 and 4/3 is not worth a 2nd rounder nor is he worth a 3yr/$12m deal. Thats your opinion but the problem is that you have demonstrated that you know nothing about Thornton nor the market for DTs. Therefore your opinion is about as uneducated as you are.



Nice name calling. Typical of posters who are ignorant to the facts, have baseless opinions, have failed at bringing facts to the table and have been poor at making a logical argument.

Lets see if you can comprehend this: The most economical plan that allows for a solid run D, provides youth and athleticism, and minimizes risk is Sig, sign Branch and draft one or two kids or bring in one rotational vet for the minimum and bring in a proven,young vet with solid production that you have salary control over.

So with that plan you have ~5 DTs + Easley that'll cost ~$7m in 2015...

Sounds like a better plan than paying VW $4m+ in 2015 to me.



Thornton is an established veteran that has produced -and excelled in run defense in both a 3/4 and 4/3. You can't get any better understanding of a player's body of work and how it fits into the Pats scheme.

I know all this is tough to absorb. Give yourself some extra time to process this.

there is no basis to any of your claims.......first you don't know if 3yr/12m PLUS a 2nd rounder would get it done (and I bet it doesn't since I'll bet that you won't see Thornton on this team, meaning that the front office does not share your glowing endorsement of this player)....you make it sound as though thornton is solely responsible for the eagles run defense he isn't, and he certainly does not have the impact wilfork had as recently as 2 months ago.....in fact, decent running teams ran pretty much at will against the eagles.....again that money plus a 2nd rounder for a JAG DT is insanely stupid

branch is garbage against the run....the rest of the garbage you throw out there isn't any bett

 

[IllegalContact]

You dont know that. Stork was ready. In certain cases we keep a key player and he goes to IR two years in a row.
Why are you so upset , would you have kept Wilfork with his astronomical number?
Give a solution .

I'm not upset at all.........just being candid with a know-nothing know-it-all

bring him back for less........forget about someone elses irrelevant comments about dockett...I think he would come back for 4m plus some playing time incentives....the rather than give 4M/yr plus a 2nd rounder away for a JAG who plays half of the defensive snaps for his team (Thornton, for example), use that pick and draft someone who will be ready in a year........

BTW, Stork does not play defensive line.....the pats have had plenty of rookie OL's play full time.......however, since BB has been here, there has only been one rookie be a full time starter, and the last time I checked, A - the pats don't have the 6th pick in the draft, and B - there are no richard seymours in this draft.

 

[RobertWeathers]

there is no basis to any of your claims.......first you don't know if 3yr/12m PLUS a 2nd rounder would get it done (and I bet it doesn't since I'll bet that you won't see Thornton on this team, meaning that the front office does not share your glowing endorsement of this player)....you make it sound as though thornton is solely responsible for the eagles run defense he isn't, and he certainly does not have the impact wilfork had as recently as 2 months ago.....in fact, decent running teams ran pretty much at will against the eagles.....again that money plus a 2nd rounder for a JAG DT is insanely stupid

branch is garbage against the run....the rest of the garbage you throw out there isn't any bett

You haven't read anything I've included in my posts. Again it supports my assertion that you are uninformed and ignorant.

Go back and read your posts. You make it sound that VW is the sole reason for an effective run D. Interesting how it improved once Branch and Sig started getting 25 snaps a game and they figured out how to play w/o Mayo. I think BB would disagree with you. Takes a team effort to have a good run D - not just one player.

You still have not offered an informed opinion on what the market is for VW and if he doesn't come back, what will the team do?

Thornton a JAG...yea..that's why Chip put a 2nd round tender on him LMAO.

 

[IllegalContact]

You haven't read anything I've included in my posts. Again it supports my assertion that you are uninformed and ignorant.

Go back and read your posts. You make it sound that VW is the sole reason for am effective run D. Interesting how it improved once Branch and Sig started getting 25 snaps a game and they figured out how to play w/o Mayo. I think BB would disagree with you. Takes a team effort to have a good run D - not just one player.

Thornton a JAG...yea..that's why Chip put a 2nd round tender on him LMAO.

2.3M...oooh.....big deal.....the guy played half of the defensive snaps......there is zero proof that he could replace wilfork....but hell, throw in a 2nd round pick and make this worse than ron brace

over the last 2 years, the pats defense gave up 105 yards per game with wilfork, 143 yards per game (worse than anyone in 2014 and only better than one team in 2013)......based on PFF, he is the only DT the pats have that graded out above average against the run for the pats, so yeah........their effectiveness against the run is based on wilforks presence.

your assertions whether they are about me or anything football related are idiotic....I am obviously more informed than you

 

[RobertWeathers]

2.3M...oooh.....big deal.....the guy played half of the defensive snaps......there is zero proof that he could replace wilfork....but hell, throw in a 2nd round pick and make this worse than ron brace

over the last 2 years, the pats defense gave up 105 yards per game with wilfork, 143 yards per game (worse than anyone in 2014 and only better than one team in 2013)......based on PFF, he is the only DT the pats have that graded out above average against the run for the pats, so yeah........their effectiveness against the run is based on wilforks presence.

your assertions whether they are about me or anything football related are idiotic....I am obviously more informed than you

The fact that you are using ProFootballFocus to support your argument is awful. Its a source of some data that has some value. Not the source of truth.

If you want to play the cherry pick stats game Pats were awful in 3rd and less than 2 yards. Does VW get exhonerated or share the blame? How about 2011 when they allowed 4.6ypc with VW? Was that someone else's fault?

Reminder...you still have not stated how much VW is worth in the market nor have you offered a plan to account for his absence that enables the Pats to have a respectable run D. What is your solution? Oh wait, you don't have one.

Are you waiting for VW to show up under the Christmas tree?

 

[IllegalContact]

The fact that you are using ProFootballFocus to support your argument is awful. Its a source of some data that has some value. Not the source of truth.

If you want to play the cherry pick stats game Pats were awful in 3rd and less than 2 yards. Does VW get exhonerated or share the blame? How about 2011 when they allowed 4.6ypc with VW? Was that someone else's fault?

Reminder...you still have not stated how much VW is worth in the market nor have you offered a plan to account for his absence that enables the Pats to have a respectable run D. What is your solution? Oh wait, you don't have one.

Are you waiting for VW to show up under the Christmas tree?

well, snap counts aren't subjective, so your point in that regard is garbage......wilfork played more than 200 more defensive plays....case closed......

2011? WTF does that have to do with 2013 and 2014? Why are you trying to spin on a very basic fact over the last 2 years....never mind, I know the answer

I know that your stupid little binky is not the answer and will not be the answer so time for you to move on with your 'lets spend 4M per year and a 2nd round pick on a nobody!!!'

 

[captain insano]

man i was hopefull there was some recent news about wilfork. instead i get this.