Seymour to Report on Saturday...Ready for Monday's game????

[MoLewisrocks]

Get your Richard Seymour jersey today and save.* Order a Replica or Authentic today. *Use coupon code SEYMOUR at checkout for 20% discount.

I hope Al isn't expecting Sey to return the favor...

 

[aeg]

... Big Sey shedding some tears, or maybe he has an eye infection. Very entertaining.

Nice!

 

[patchick]

4. Seymour is bitter, and has absorbed a "nut punch" (great phrase) to his reputation by appearing (gasp!) to be spoiled brat.

Ironically, the party he helped the most by acting that way was Bill Belichick.

This was a hugely controversial trade...at first. If Seymour had held a press conference to thank the New England fans, thank the organization that drafted him, and talk about how any change is bittersweet but he looked forward to bringing his championship play and attitude to the Oakland Raiders, the angst and second-guessing could have grown deafening. Instead as the days passed the refrain became "spoiled," "me first," "temper tantrum," "didn't he always say 'it's a business,'" "there's a reason he wasn't a team captain," and even "good riddance." And BB comes off looking smarter than ever.

Bill says thanks, Richard.

 

[mayoclinic]

Ironically, the party he helped the most by acting that way was Bill Belichick.

This was a hugely controversial trade...at first. If Seymour had held a press conference to thank the New England fans, thank the organization that drafted him, and talk about how any change is bittersweet but he looked forward to bringing his championship play and attitude to the Oakland Raiders, the angst and second-guessing could have grown deafening. Instead as the days passed the refrain became "spoiled," "me first," "temper tantrum," "didn't he always say 'it's a business,'" "there's a reason he wasn't a team captain," and even "good riddance." And BB comes off looking smarter than ever.

Bill says thanks, Richard.

That's absolutely true. I think it was obvious that Seymour lost a lot of sympathy by the way he acted, to the point where he saw the need to get his apologist Borges to present "his side" of the story.

It also makes me wonder how much stuff went on behind the scenes at Foxboro that we never knew about. I expect that what the public hears is probably the tip of the iceberg. Certainly BB comes across as very smart for getting rid of an aging difficult but talented player (at best; a malcontent or even "team cancer" at worst) in his contract year for a potentially high 1st round draft pick.

I hope Seymour goes wild this year, gets 10+ sacks and makes the Pro Bowl, with Oakland exceeding all expectations and going 8-8. Then he flees to Denver, KC or similar places for some enormous money, and Oakland falls back to 2-4 wins in 2010 leaving us with a very high 2011 draft pick, hopefully on a rookie salary scale.

 

[Ring 6]

Ironically, the party he helped the most by acting that way was Bill Belichick.

This was a hugely controversial trade...at first. If Seymour had held a press conference to thank the New England fans, thank the organization that drafted him, and talk about how any change is bittersweet but he looked forward to bringing his championship play and attitude to the Oakland Raiders, the angst and second-guessing could have grown deafening. Instead as the days passed the refrain became "spoiled," "me first," "temper tantrum," "didn't he always say 'it's a business,'" "there's a reason he wasn't a team captain," and even "good riddance." And BB comes off looking smarter than ever.

Bill says thanks, Richard.

We won our first SB without anywhere near the best players.
We won our second without the best players, at least on offense.
We won our 3rd with some of our own best players on the sidelines.
We havent won a SB the last 3 year with the best players.
I dont believe the only dynamic of a player contributing to a championship is his talent.
We lost players who were of lesser talent but made up for it with intelligence, dedication and attitude (Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrision). We will miss those more than we will miss the player who had immense talent but underachieved, at least to a degree.

 

[mayoclinic]

We won our first SB without anywhere near the best players.
We won our second without the best players, at least on offense.
We won our 3rd with some of our own best players on the sidelines.
We havent won a SB the last 3 year with the best players.
I dont believe the only dynamic of a player contributing to a championship is his talent.
We lost players who were of lesser talent but made up for it with intelligence, dedication and attitude (Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrision). We will miss those more than we will miss the player who had immense talent but underachieved, at least to a degree.

Well said. It all depends which one values more, the player(s) or the team. I always thought the Pats were about the team, not the players.

 

[Ring 6]

Well said. It all depends which one values more, the player(s) or the team. I always thought the Pats were about the team, not the players.

Well, that attitude is really tested when it is a great player.
Personally, I believe BB more than anyone understands Seymours talent, and I believe that either his attitude, talking to teammates about moving on because of money, or his effort have been lacking. We have absolutely no way of knowing if Seymour spent the preseason going through the motions and not working hard as a petulant response to wanting more money, and that led BB to feel he was going to be less than his best this year.
I could speculate on a bunch of things, but I would guarantee that something developed that told BB Seymour was not going to be the same guy on or off the field or he would not have made the deal.

 

[mayoclinic]

Well, that attitude is really tested when it is a great player.
Personally, I believe BB more than anyone understands Seymours talent, and I believe that either his attitude, talking to teammates about moving on because of money, or his effort have been lacking. We have absolutely no way of knowing if Seymour spent the preseason going through the motions and not working hard as a petulant response to wanting more money, and that led BB to feel he was going to be less than his best this year.
I could speculate on a bunch of things, but I would guarantee that something developed that told BB Seymour was not going to be the same guy on or off the field or he would not have made the deal.

I would agree. I've never denied Seymour's talent or the level of his play when he has been on. But I've always been a bit put off by his inconsistency, minor injuries, and self-centered attitude, to the point where I've never taken him to heart quite as much as his play would have warranted. I too suspect something was going on to make him expendable.

 

[mgteich]

It seems strange that one of the best coaches of players with attitude apparently has had trouble managing Seymour. But it is what it is.

I also suspect that there is some factor that has caused Belichick to make this move, and that it has nothing to with Seymour wanting to leave the patriots next year or the draft choice he secured. After all, we've had a dozen who wanted that over the past decade. Green is likely one. We'll see about Wilfork and Mankins. But they all understand that the party line is that they all would like to stay if the deal is right. Of course, that is always the case. The open question is how much more or less it would take for them to sign with another team.

Well, that attitude is really tested when it is a great player.
Personally, I believe BB more than anyone understands Seymours talent, and I believe that either his attitude, talking to teammates about moving on because of money, or his effort have been lacking. We have absolutely no way of knowing if Seymour spent the preseason going through the motions and not working hard as a petulant response to wanting more money, and that led BB to feel he was going to be less than his best this year.
I could speculate on a bunch of things, but I would guarantee that something developed that told BB Seymour was not going to be the same guy on or off the field or he would not have made the deal.

 

[mgteich]

Why do you think Seymour wants or needs your or my sympathy, or even Belichick's? Belichick called him and tersely told him his rights were traded. From that moment onward, Seymour was focused on relocating his family and on his role with his new team (and in granting a couple of interviews to personal friends). He has had regular calls with his new team, and reported within a week, apparently ready to play. Also, Seymour and the NFLPA chose to clarify the rules on the 5-day letter.

Personally, I have no problem at all with any of Seymour's actions or comments that have been made public. If there is underlying dirt and unacceptable animosity or issues between Seymour and Belichick, I don't think that we will ever really know the details.

I also don't question Belichick any longer on this deal. If he thinks that the best way to win in 2009 is to dump Seymour, then it is what is, and I can live with it. It is time to move on.

As I indicated in the Week 1 thread, if we don't win this year, it is not likely to be because of deficiencies in the performance of the defensive line.

That's absolutely true. I think it was obvious that Seymour lost a lot of sympathy by the way he acted, to the point where he saw the need to get his apologist Borges to present "his side" of the story.

It also makes me wonder how much stuff went on behind the scenes at Foxboro that we never knew about. I expect that what the public hears is probably the tip of the iceberg. Certainly BB comes across as very smart for getting rid of an aging difficult but talented player (at best; a malcontent or even "team cancer" at worst) in his contract year for a potentially high 1st round draft pick.

I hope Seymour goes wild this year, gets 10+ sacks and makes the Pro Bowl, with Oakland exceeding all expectations and going 8-8. Then he flees to Denver, KC or similar places for some enormous money, and Oakland falls back to 2-4 wins in 2010 leaving us with a very high 2011 draft pick, hopefully on a rookie salary scale.

 

[Frezo]

Perhaps some players never fully grasp what it really means to be an employee. All players are employees and there are a whole litany of people over them from the line coach up to Goddell that can tell them where to go, what to do and when to do it. These players are expected to tow the company line just like other employees do in any number of carrers. It's not just a game anymore. It's employment.

"Just Do Your Job"

 

[Ring 6]

Why do you think Seymour wants or needs your or my sympathy, or even Belichick's? Belichick called him and tersely told him his rights were traded. From that moment onward, Seymour was focused on relocating his family and on his role with his new team (and in granting a couple of interviews to personal friends). He has had regular calls with his new team, and reported within a week, apparently ready to play. Also, Seymour and the NFLPA chose to clarify the rules on the 5-day letter.

Personally, I have no problem at all with any of Seymour's actions or comments that have been made public. If there is underlying dirt and unacceptable animosity or issues between Seymour and Belichick, I don't think that we will ever really know the details.

I also don't question Belichick any longer on this deal. If he thinks that the best way to win in 2009 is to dump Seymour, then it is what is, and I can live with it. It is time to move on.

As I indicated in the Week 1 thread, if we don't win this year, it is not likely to be because of deficiencies in the performance of the defensive line.

I think that the combination of:
-Comments from teammates the Seymour was talking about not being here any longer because they wont pay him
-The lack of us ever trading a guy going into his contract year
-The potential to franchise and trade him anyway next year
-The reality that our defense will stop a team better with Richard Seymour than the next guy on the field

adds up to the fact that Seymour did something to make BB feel what the other issues would detract from 09 was at least close to what his ability on the field would add.
I agree though we may never know.
Damn, I hope when BB is all done,there is a tell all book. We are up to about 4000 inside stories Id really like to know.

 

[shmessy]

I think that the combination of:
-Comments from teammates the Seymour was talking about not being here any longer because they wont pay him
-The lack of us ever trading a guy going into his contract year
-The potential to franchise and trade him anyway next year
-The reality that our defense will stop a team better with Richard Seymour than the next guy on the field

adds up to the fact that Seymour did something to make BB feel what the other issues would detract from 09 was at least close to what his ability on the field would add.
I agree though we may never know.
Damn, I hope when BB is all done,there is a tell all book. We are up to about 4000 inside stories Id really like to know.

Or the fact that a top 5 1st round pick in what will probably be the first rookie draft-capped year was such a shocking offer for a 30 year old player with injury histories and a cap-busting payday scheduled after this year was just too good an opportunity to pass up.......no matter how much he appreciated having Seymour on the team.

In sum, it may not have been so much a negative judgement about Seymour but a value judgement on what was being offered and the excellent depth of the DL. At least that is what the out-of-town press seems to be focusing on.

 

[patchick]

In sum, it may not have been so much a negative judgement about Seymour but a value judgement on what was being offered and the excellent depth of the DL. At least that is what the out-of-town press seems to be focusing on.

That's the thing, there are so many plausible scenarios that you can't assume anything.

Suppose Oakland had made the same offer during the offseason, but the Patriots said no because it would weaken this year's team too much. But then during camp both Brace and Pryor looked much readier to contribute than they expected. So when the Raiders came back around, the cost-benefit balance had shifted.

You can conjure up many variations on the above scenario involving Oakland upping its offer, or which defensive looks were working best and how key Seymour was to them, or concerns about Warren's health fading during camp. Or maybe OL lineups without Mankins looked so alarming that they decided they really had to reserve a franchise tag for him in 2010. Plenty of scenarios without anything being "wrong" with Seymour.

Or maybe Seymour was dogging it, or spreading dissension. I have no clue. If somebody does have a clue based on evidence beyond the fact of the trade itself, I'm all ears. Because the trade itself, IMO, doesn't tell us much.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Seymour to Report on Saturday.. Ready for Monday's game????

That's the thing, there are so many plausible scenarios that you can't assume anything.

Suppose Oakland had made the same offer during the offseason, but the Patriots said no because it would weaken this year's team too much. But then during camp both Brace and Pryor looked much readier to contribute than they expected. So when the Raiders came back around, the cost-benefit balance had shifted.

You can conjure up many variations on the above scenario involving Oakland upping its offer, or which defensive looks were working best and how key Seymour was to them, or concerns about Warren's health fading during camp. Or maybe OL lineups without Mankins looked so alarming that they decided they really had to reserve a franchise tag for him in 2010. Plenty of scenarios without anything being "wrong" with Seymour.

Or maybe Seymour was dogging it, or spreading dissension. I have no clue. If somebody does have a clue based on evidence beyond the fact of the trade itself, I'm all ears. Because the trade itself, IMO, doesn't tell us much.

Keeping three DL on the Practice Squad, two of whom were in camp, and then trimming the roster to six with the Seymour trade suggests the two youngsters on the Squad added to their comfort level in making the move. I wouldn't be surprised to see Stephen Williams return in the next week or two.