Robert Kraft talks to Peter King

[Ring 6]

That isn't true. Brady has a decent shot in court, but on the procedural stuff like there is no precedence for his punishment (how Peterson got his suspension overturned) or that Troy Vincent had no right under the CBA to hand out the suspension. But even then, it will likely be handed to another arbitrator who may or may not side with Brady.

Brady has a 100% chance of being exonerated in court or by a neutral arbitrator.
Look at the evidence, and explain what in there justifies denying a unionized employee his right to work.
If Brady were a pipefitter fired for this, do you seriously think a court would side with management? The court is not dealing with Tom Brady, it is dealing with unionized workers rights.
The CBA is only as good as the court upholding it. If the court finds the 'more probable than not' to be unfair, or Goodells role as judge, jury and executioner to be illegal, they will rule as such. The state of Missouri already has, and in that state, Goodell cannot be the arbiter of appeals.

And the fact of the matter is that most of the country do not think the Wells report is a job. Listen to national radio and you may have some hosts and callers thinking that, but most people think the Pats are 100% guilty and the Wells report proves it and no matter how many ridiculous excuses of why they called McNally the deflator won't change that.

I disagree here. When the Wells report came out, the public believed they were guilty. after the Patriots repsonse it has turned into supposition to defend the original conclusion such as
"Why did the suspend the Delator and Dorito Dink"
"Why didn't Brady give up his phone"
"Why would the league go after Brady"
You will note that these are not evidence, proof or facts, but rationalizations to dismiss the real proof that has come out.

Goodell isn't going to reverse his decision unless the public cry turns against him and the Wells report. Unlikely to happen.

Let me ask you this.
If Roger Goodell takes the Patriots response into consideration and actually comes to the correct conclusion that the Wells report was terrible, and is not enough to find guilt, and he knows that if he rules in favor of suspending Brady he will end up in court, are you saying he will ignore what is right, ignore what will be exposed in court, and uphold Wells because he thinks he will get criticized?

 

[Ivan]

I hope you are right. This is a mess.

I didn't think we were at this point but if Kraft continues to push this then the owners are going to have to choose between them, and the simple fact that the league has reached this point in and of itself demonstrates to me that Goodell has completely lost control and is not suited to be the commissioner. I think Kraft's best play is to stay the course, accept no compromises, and plant the seed of no confidence in Goodell as commissioner.

 

[Rawky77]

cancel have to leave. lol

 

[Ivan]

Kraft needs to allow the finer points of this to blur into the background, stay focused upon the bigger issue of a league office out of control, and allow the other owners to question how psi has become an issue threatening the stability of the league. The fact that this could be heading to court, after all of Goödel's other missteps, could well be something that caused the other owners to seriously question Goodell's competence. A halfway competent commissioner would never have allowed this to get to this point.

 

[Rob0729]

Brady has a 100% chance of being exonerated in court or by a neutral arbitrator.
Look at the evidence, and explain what in there justifies denying a unionized employee his right to work.
If Brady were a pipefitter fired for this, do you seriously think a court would side with management? The court is not dealing with Tom Brady, it is dealing with unionized workers rights.
The CBA is only as good as the court upholding it. If the court finds the 'more probable than not' to be unfair, or Goodells role as judge, jury and executioner to be illegal, they will rule as such. The state of Missouri already has, and in that state, Goodell cannot be the arbiter of appeals.


I disagree here. When the Wells report came out, the public believed they were guilty. after the Patriots repsonse it has turned into supposition to defend the original conclusion such as
"Why did the suspend the Delator and Dorito Dink"
"Why didn't Brady give up his phone"
"Why would the league go after Brady"
You will note that these are not evidence, proof or facts, but rationalizations to dismiss the real proof that has come out.


Let me ask you this.
If Roger Goodell takes the Patriots response into consideration and actually comes to the correct conclusion that the Wells report was terrible, and is not enough to find guilt, and he knows that if he rules in favor of suspending Brady he will end up in court, are you saying he will ignore what is right, ignore what will be exposed in court, and uphold Wells because he thinks he will get criticized?

One last one. Brady's suspension will not be tried in court. He will only fight to overturn Goodell's ruling and send it to an independent arbitrator. This is not a guarantee so right there there is no 100% chance of it getting overturned.

And I suggest you listen to a national radio broadcast. Most of the people including hosts think the Wells report clearly shows the Pats cheated. In fact, many of the people who are blasting the league agree with the Wells report, but thinks Goodell went overboard on the punishment.

And Goodell has made his decision. There is nothing going to sway him. Goodell is a reactionary commissioner and bows to the will of the people. Most people want a harsh punishment for Brady and the Pats, that is all the evidence he needs. The only evidence that sways Goodell is ESPN opinion polls which are against the Patriots. You apparently have no idea who Goodell is because he is very consistence in his inflexibility on admitting he is wrong unless the public tells him he is wrong which they aren't.

 

[Mack Herron]

"The NFL owners stand behind the commissioner in his commitment to the integrity of the game of football. Mr Goodell commissioned an investigation from a highly respected firm and he acted in good faith upon the conclusions of that report. The investigation reached conclusions that have been questioned by several sources, both internal and external to the NFL. As a result, we have discussed the report as well as evidence provided by the NE Patriots. The NFL believes that there exist on key points honest disagreements among respected parties that can be traced to limitations of the underlying data provided to Mr Wells. While Mr Wells performed admirably with the materials available to him, his investigation uncovered shortcomings in the longstanding processes pertaining to ball integrity. Confusion arose due to lack of due oversight on matters of equipment (calibration of gauges), chain of custody (balls are routinely handled by team representatives after approval by NFL officials), and other factors. Consequently, the owners and the commissioner are in agreement that the NFL's longstanding processes pertaining to ball integrity require a thorough investigation and potential revision to ensure fair play. We have, therefore, undertaken a thorough review of these processes. As part of this review, and in order to avoid any perceived lack of fairness of conclusions based in part on inadequate oversight, we are suspending the results of the Wells report and the investigation of the NE Patriots until the NFL has completed its investigation of the rules pertaining to ball integrity."

EDIT: this came to me in a dream.

 

[Ring 6]

One last one. Brady's suspension will not be tried in court. He will only fight to overturn Goodell's ruling and send it to an independent arbitrator. This is not a guarantee so right there there is no 100% chance of it getting overturned.

Brady will go to court if he is not fully exonerated. There is simply no doubt of that. The league has lost every time this has happened,and the other guys were actually guilty.

And I suggest you listen to a national radio broadcast. Most of the people including hosts think the Wells report clearly shows the Pats cheated. In fact, many of the people who are blasting the league agree with the Wells report, but thinks Goodell went overboard on the punishment.

I listen to all of it. The rhetoric has changed coinciding with the Patriots rebuttal. No sense wasting board space going back and forth over this.

And Goodell has made his decision.

He made his decision after hearing the 'prosecution side' while thinking it was the full story.
We all know now that is not the case.

There is nothing going to sway him.

He has changed numerous suspensions on appeal, so this is wrong.

Goodell is a reactionary commissioner and bows to the will of the people.

That has as much factual support as the Wells investigation.

Most people want a harsh punishment for Brady and the Pats, that is all the evidence he needs.

You really are positioning yourself as a Goodell mind reader. I will note that my comments are based upon the wiser course of action and yours all require that you know what is going in Goodells mind.

The only evidence that sways Goodell is ESPN opinion polls which are against the Patriots. You apparently have no idea who Goodell is because he is very consistence in his inflexibility on admitting he is wrong unless the public tells him he is wrong which they aren't.

As I said.

Does that mean that your answer is that you do believe that Goodell will suspend Brady even if he knows he did nothing? Just want to be clear on what you are saying.

 

[Ring 6]

"The NFL owners stand behind the commissioner in his commitment to the integrity of the game of football. Mr Goodell commissioned an investigation from a highly respected firm and he acted in good faith upon the conclusions of that report. The investigation reached conclusions that have been questioned by several sources, both internal and external to the NFL. As a result, we have discussed the report as well as evidence provided by the NE Patriots. The NFL believes that there exist on key points honest disagreements among respected parties that can be traced to limitations of the underlying data provided to Mr Wells. While Mr Wells performed admirably with the materials available to him, his investigation uncovered shortcomings in the longstanding processes pertaining to ball integrity. Confusion arose due to lack of due oversight on matters of equipment (calibration of gauges), chain of custody (balls are routinely handled by team representatives after approval by NFL officials), and other factors. Consequently, the owners and the commissioner are in agreement that the NFL's longstanding processes pertaining to ball integrity require a thorough investigation and potential revision to ensure fair play. We have, therefore, undertaken a thorough review of these processes. As part of this review, and in order to avoid any perceived lack of fairness of conclusions based in part on inadequate oversight, we are suspending the results of the Wells report and the investigation of the NE Patriots until the NFL has completed its investigation of the rules pertaining to ball integrity."

WHAT? Please tell me you didn't just make that up.

 

[Ivan]

But this assumes it doesn't end up in court. I get that if his word were finally, he could attempt to sweep it under the rug, but it is not final.


Well of course its going to court. Thats the entire point that I have been making. Goodells choice is not siding with Wells or turning on Wells and no one will ever know the truth.
His choice is CHOOSING Wells over the Patriots rebuttal then getting eviscerated in court, or admitting that the rebuttal destroys the Wells report and saving face.
The looming court battle is 99% of what Goodell needs to be concerned with, not public opinion.

I think he is going come out of this damaged beyond repair either way. The owners have to be seriously questioning how this ever got to this point. I think Goodell badly misjudged how Kraft would respond to the findings and sanctions and simply expected him to roll over, and Kraft stepping up and telling the league to stuff it came as a shock to him. If he supports Wells then this is going to court, which the owners absolutely don't want, and if he turns on Wells they have to seriously question spending five million on PSI and why Vincent was allowed to impose absurd sanctions based on a shoddy report. Either way Goodell has demonstrated beyond any question that he is not fit to run the NFL.


Time to grab the popcorn.

 

[Tunescribe]

"The NFL owners stand behind the commissioner in his commitment to the integrity of the game of football. Mr Goodell commissioned an investigation from a highly respected firm and he acted in good faith upon the conclusions of that report. The investigation reached conclusions that have been questioned by several sources, both internal and external to the NFL. As a result, we have discussed the report as well as evidence provided by the NE Patriots. The NFL believes that there exist on key points honest disagreements among respected parties that can be traced to limitations of the underlying data provided to Mr Wells. While Mr Wells performed admirably with the materials available to him, his investigation uncovered shortcomings in the longstanding processes pertaining to ball integrity. Confusion arose due to lack of due oversight on matters of equipment (calibration of gauges), chain of custody (balls are routinely handled by team representatives after approval by NFL officials), and other factors. Consequently, the owners and the commissioner are in agreement that the NFL's longstanding processes pertaining to ball integrity require a thorough investigation and potential revision to ensure fair play. We have, therefore, undertaken a thorough review of these processes. As part of this review, and in order to avoid any perceived lack of fairness of conclusions based in part on inadequate oversight, we are suspending the results of the Wells report and the investigation of the NE Patriots until the NFL has completed its investigation of the rules pertaining to ball integrity."

Where did this come from?

 

[Ivan]

I hope you are right. This is a mess.

The mess is a great thing, it amplifies how unfit Goodell is for the job. This should never have happened.

 

[The Gr8est]

The mess is a great thing, it amplifies how unfit Goodell is for the job. This should never have happened.

Goodell really needs to go. If the Pats emerge victorious in their challenges Goodell will have a bigger grudge than he already does.

 

[Ivan]

Goodell really needs to go. If the Pats emerge victorious in their challenges Goodell will have a bigger grudge than he already does.

I agree, and I think that Kraft staying the course is going to lead the other owners to seriously question Goödel's fitness for the job.

 

[Mack Herron]

WHAT? Please tell me you didn't just make that up.

Well of course I made it up. You don't really think anything like this could happen in real life do you (except perhaps the part about the owners supporting Goodell....)?

 

[Ring 6]

I think he is going come out of this damaged beyond repair either way. The owners have to be seriously questioning how this ever got to this point. I think Goodell badly misjudged how Kraft would respond to the findings and sanctions and simply expected him to roll over, and Kraft stepping up and telling the league to stuff it came as a shock to him. If he supports Wells then this is going to court, which the owners absolutely don't want, and if he turns on Wells they have to seriously question spending five million on PSI and why Vincent was allowed to impose absurd sanctions based on a shoddy report. Either way Goodell has demonstrated beyond any question that he is not fit to run the NFL.


Time to grab the popcorn.

Being totally objective, which also requires not having a preconceived opinion of Goodell, what could possibly be wrong with this, from the Commissioner of your sport:

1) Team accused of cheating
2) Initial evidence seems to support it (the league had no clue balls would deflate due to cold)
3) Hire an independent investigator. The integrity of the game must be protected. The league already admitted it is not good at investigation
4) Receive the independent report and rule based upon its conclusion, subject to appeal
5) Listen to the appeal. The integrity of the league must be based on a fair hearing.
6) Recognize the appeal is strong, and the rebuttal makes the report and its conclusion questionable at best.
7) Judge that the rebuttal to the report causes it to no longer meet the standard of proof, and rule in favor of the appeal

Some here want to say that it is a cardinal sin to actually listen to an appeal, take it seriously and when it is right, overturn the results. I don't.

 

[Ring 6]

Well of course I made it up. You don't really think anything like this could happen in real life do you (except perhaps the part about the owners supporting Goodell....)?

Please don't do that. Putting that in quotes with no comment makes it seem like you copied it from a press release.

 

[Rob0729]

Brady will go to court if he is not fully exonerated. There is simply no doubt of that. The league has lost every time this has happened,and the other guys were actually guilty.


I listen to all of it. The rhetoric has changed coinciding with the Patriots rebuttal. No sense wasting board space going back and forth over this.


He made his decision after hearing the 'prosecution side' while thinking it was the full story.
We all know now that is not the case.


He has changed numerous suspensions on appeal, so this is wrong.


That has as much factual support as the Wells investigation.


You really are positioning yourself as a Goodell mind reader. I will note that my comments are based upon the wiser course of action and yours all require that you know what is going in Goodells mind.


As I said.

Does that mean that your answer is that you do believe that Goodell will suspend Brady even if he knows he did nothing? Just want to be clear on what you are saying.

I will answer your one question and be done. I think Goodell has no choice but to make Brady the scape goat. Selling Brady down the river is still his best choice. Whether he thinks he is innocent or not at this point is irrelevant.

That said, when homers like Scott Zolak and Dale Arnold think Brady did something, there is little doubt that Goodell believes Brady is guilty.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Roger Goodell is committing career suicide as we speak. Goodell just crossed the guy who put him into power. This act of plain disloyalty will cost Goodell his job in the long run. And in the short term it looks like Brady and Kraft are going to do everything in their power to fight these draconian punishments.

The key words I hear from Kraft was that he felt that the investigation was "unfair" and there was no "smoking gun." Everything was based on "circumstantial evidence" and used against the Patriots. Bob Kraft is sharpening his machete as we speak. I think he will feel out his options at the owners' meetings before executing his final plan. And that plan does not involve covering up for Goodell's bumbling anymore.

 

[Ring 6]

I will answer your one question and be done. I think Goodell has no choice but to make Brady the scape goat. Selling Brady down the river is still his best choice. Whether he thinks he is innocent or not at this point is irrelevant.

That is a very disappointing take. Personally I think Goodell has no choice but to do the right thing, not no choice but to do the wrong thing because he thinks it will be best for him to be dishonest.

That said, when homers like Scott Zolak and Dale Arnold think Brady did something, there is little doubt that Goodell believes Brady is guilty.

When did Zolak say Brady did something? Link?

 

[Mack Herron]

Please don't do that. Putting that in quotes with no comment makes it seem like you copied it from a press release.

Ahh...apologies. It didn't honestly occur to me but point taken.