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Robert Ayers


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You're right the con against Ayers is the similar to Barwin and therefore I would value them both at 34, but I value English at 23 because of the production.

Depends on which you value more, a high floor or a high ceiling. I think that Ayers and Barwin both have much higher ceilings than English. Ayers is bigger and stouter against the run, and more agile. Barwin's ceiling is off the charts. English has more experience and productivity, and probably a higher floor. Personally, I'll go with both Ayers and Barwin, but it's a personal preference thing.
 
i think ayers is gonna be a great nfl player
 
Depends on which you value more, a high floor or a high ceiling. I think that Ayers and Barwin both have much higher ceilings than English. Ayers is bigger and stouter against the run, and more agile. Barwin's ceiling is off the charts. English has more experience and productivity, and probably a higher floor. Personally, I'll go with both Ayers and Barwin, but it's a personal preference thing.

I would agree with that assessment and for me I'm not as willing to take the risk with my 1st round pick. I suppose the difference between the 23rd and 34th wouldn't seem like much, but in terms of $ it's pretty significant.
 
i think ayers is gonna be a great nfl player

I think he could be the best SILB in the draft, including Maualuga - bigger, just as fast, more versatile, better hips, less stiff. Better at taking on blockers. Obviously not as experienced.
 
Watch youtube of Barwin and then Ayers. Barwin looks good gets good push and has one move the bull rush. Ayers on the other hand fights through and dominates doubles he has a spin, rip and inside delay for pass rush moves. Not to mention one guy plays in the SEC. Ayers is not an inside player. Maybe he was in HS but not now. I wonder if teams are seeing him as a tweener prospect.

There's a beatiful clip on the Vols youtube highlights of Ayers around the 1 minute mark, where Ayers and Mayo come right up the middle and sack the QB. I wouldn't mind seeing those 2 reunited inside.
 
I have one major question about potential prospects at #23: How important is career production for a Patriots first round pick? I ask because some are seriously being considered as the Pats first pick, yet only have one productive season coupled with impressive workouts. Is that enough for Belichick & Co. -- or do the Pats require more proven production?
Define "production."

As fans, most of us hear the word and think 100 tackle games, 1,200 yd seasons, etc. All of which is one measure of production. Another measure to combine with 'statistical' production is 'performance' production.

We see threads demanding Hobbs and Sanders be benched, Seymour and Maroney be traded, yet they're still with the team? Neither Hobbs or Sanders have many interceptions, or forced fumbles, yet they start - and while BB is crucified by the more contemplative amongst us, NE goes on 18-0 runs with Hobbs and Sanders as starters. It would appear BB has a different production standard that goes well beyond stats, and the TV camera's view pf performance.

Let's look at Barwin, the same process will apply for Ayers:

Barwin saw action as a true freshman on Special Teams and as a reserve TE:

What was his assignment on each play? How does he grade out for his assignment? What offensive system did he play in? Does it emphasize the TE as a receiver or a blocker? Is his quarterback capable of executing? Was Barwin open on his route? Who was covering him? On those rare occasions the ball was thrown to him, did he make the catch? Was it a difficult catch? Was it a hands catch? Did he maintain control of the ball while being hit? How does he react with the ball in his hands? Was the ball secured quickly? What grades did his coaches give him for that game?

How many starts did Matt Cassel have? Yes, he was a 7th round pick and we're arguing #23 overall, but the same evaluation process is involved. If you look at the body of Barwin's work on offense, special teams, defense, and basketball, then 'performance' production isn't in doubt. For his statistical production; 31 receptions as a TE is good production, 11 sacks is good production, 15.5 TFL is good production, 7 PD is good production, 3 blocked kicks is good production.

We like to focus on the negative when we're evaluating, when we do look at the positive we get wrapped up in the big numbers or the hype and miss the other elements that led to those numbers. There are enough stories on NE's warroom mindset floating around to know this, BB wants to know what this prospect can do well to make NE succeed. I think that's a new thread...

Career production is impotant to BB, as is career starts, but it seems pretty clear to me that BB's "career" production differs wildly from what fans consider "production." Ayers and Barwin are not workout warriors, Barwin is not a one year wonder - his track record is very solid, just not at the same position for four years. Ayers is branded a one year wonder, but who played in front of him? If he moved between multiple positions, did he play his assignments correctly and perform that way? Perhaps Mike Mayock's one year wonder isn't quite the NFL evaluator's reality.
 
Why do you say that Ayers is not an inside player? Just because Tennessee had him outside at DE as his primary position? They also moved him around, including DT and ILB, and he did reasonably well at both. He has good inside moves, is stout against the run, and "fights through and dominates doubles". Not a bad start for an inside guy.

If you watch him he's an engage leverage type player. He get's leverage at the snap, if he were 4 or 5 yrds off the ball his upper body would be in front of his legs, his legs would'nt be under him at all times like a good MLB. Also, look at his delay pass rush move, he's leaning almost like he's engaged and then bang he's off in another direction. You don't want your MLB leaning over his feat, however put him on the end or OLB and you got a player who can set the edge and still use that leverage to to get off blocks and make plays while moving up field.
 
If you watch him he's an engage leverage type player. He get's leverage at the snap, if he were 4 or 5 yrds off the ball his upper body would be in front of his legs, his legs would'nt be under him at all times like a good MLB. Also, look at his delay pass rush move, he's leaning almost like he's engaged and then bang he's off in another direction. You don't want your MLB leaning over his feat, however put him on the end or OLB and you got a player who can set the edge and still use that leverage to to get off blocks and make plays while moving up field.

Thanks for explaining your reasoning. I'm not sure I agree with it, and will have to look at what limited film is available again, but I appreciate the thought behind it.
 
Trade Seymour, Trade Green, Cut Sanders, Cut Cassel, Trade, Cut, etc....

Oh that crowd. They're similar to the disloyal, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately, I-don't-have-time-to-wait-for-draft-picks-to-develop crowd. And may be related to the we-don't-stand-a-chance, lousy-gameplan-poor-playcalling game thread clan. But not to be missed, and coming to a theater near you very soon, we have the I-can't-believe-we-reached-and-passed-on-him-in-round-two kinship.

Here's to the ongoing challenge of keeping their mugs half full...:eat3:
 
Oh that crowd. They're similar to the disloyal, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately, I-don't-have-time-to-wait-for-draft-picks-to-develop crowd. And may be related to the we-don't-stand-a-chance, lousy-gameplan-poor-playcalling game thread clan. But not to be missed, and coming to a theater near you very soon, we have the I-can't-believe-we-reached-and-passed-on-him-in-round-two kinship.

Here's to the ongoing challenge of keeping their mugs half full...:eat3:
Didn't PATSNUTMe have a sig with a special "fountain" effect for glasses like those? :eek:
 
Post the numbers if you would. However, one of the reasons that the 23 is worth so much more is that is a 5-year contract rather than a four.

I would agree with that assessment and for me I'm not as willing to take the risk with my 1st round pick. I suppose the difference between the 23rd and 34th wouldn't seem like much, but in terms of $ it's pretty significant.
 
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