Rob Gronkowski versus Jason Witten: Who had the better game?

[RodThePat]

Witten had the better game. Once the Cowboys fell behind big and had to mount a comeback, he was pretty much the sole driving force of their offense. Take Gronkowski out of our game, there's a good chance the Patriots still win it comfortably, take Witten out of the Cowboys, and they lose by 40.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

again,

why one star?

Zero stars is not an option.

 

[condon84]

According to some posters logic:

Fells>>Witten because Fells' team won.

 

[PatsDeb]

Since Gronk's team won the game (and he was a key to it) and Witten's lost, I've gotta go with Gronk (as a rabid Pats fan, I may be a little biased, tho).

 

[dizi24]

There's really no way to quantify this stuff.

But Witten was incredible yesterday for anyone who didn't see the game. Whenever Dallas needed a play, Witten was there and the Giants couldn't stop him. They put a CB, a safety, and LB on him at different times, and nothing worked. He put up a hell of an effort

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Witten had the better game. Once the Cowboys fell behind big and had to mount a comeback, he was pretty much the sole driving force of their offense.

What was he doing when they fell behind big? I know Romo was throwing INTs like I'll be passing out candy this Wednesday, but still...

Points matter.

In a small college game I watched this weekend, a QB passed for 428 yards on 52 completions in 75 attempts and his team did not score a single point. They had one INT, no fumbles, but routinely moved it near the red zone and then came up with zip. They lost 28-0. Was it a great game, statistically or otherwise, for him? No. The goods didn't get delivered. Also, -22 yards rushing didn't help.

Wabash at. Ohio Wesleyan | Box Score | 10/27/2012: D3football.com

 

[Jangles]

Gronk

Witten had 21 more yards on 10 more catches.

 

[Claremonster]

Witten had an amazing game!

But, Gronk had 2 (almost 3) td's yesterday!

The Pats won. The Cowboys lost.

Gronk>Witten

 

[RodThePat]

What was he doing when they fell behind big? I know Romo was throwing INTs like I'll be passing out candy this Wednesday, but still...

Points matter.

In a small college game I watched this weekend, a QB passed for 428 yards on 52 completions in 75 attempts and his team did not score a single point. They had one INT, no fumbles, but routinely moved it near the red zone and then came up with zip. They lost 28-0. Was it a great game, statistically or otherwise, for him? No. The goods didn't get delivered. Also, -22 yards rushing didn't help.

Wabash at. Ohio Wesleyan | Box Score | 10/27/2012: D3football.com

Romo threw 3 picks and Bryant fumbled the football to put them in a 23 point hole. To assign any of the blame for that to Witten is ridiculous. Once his team actually started to put drives together and not turn it over every other play, he took over the game. Your example also makes no sense. A quarterback has his hands on the football every single play, ultimately, if his team doesn't score a single point, the fault lies with him. Not only did the Cowboys score 24 points, they did it mostly on the back of Witten's performance.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Player A fans: "Player A, because he caught more passes and helped move the ball more often."

Player B fans: "Player B, because he provided the kind of big gainers that make things much easier for offenses."

Q: So, are Player A's fans right or are Player B's fans right?

A: Yes.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The one that helped put more points on the board? How many catches for each were on drives that made the scoreboard move? That's not by any means a factor to ignore.

If it is easier to move this from single-game performance to overall value, who is better: Wes Welker at his best or DeSean Jackson at his best? Welker typically gets 8-10 catches for 80 yards, while Jackson (when he was at his best), typically got 3-4 catches for 80 yards. Welker catches roughly 70% of his targets, while Jackson is closer to 50%.

I'm not posing this as a question that I have an answer to. I am just interested to hear what people think. The Pats offense has been the best in the league over the last three years without a home run hitter.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If it is easier to move this from single-game performance to overall value, who is better: Wes Welker at his best or DeSean Jackson at his best? Welker typically gets 8-10 catches for 80 yards, while Jackson (when he was at his best), typically got 3-4 catches for 80 yards. Welker catches roughly 70% of his targets, while Jackson is closer to 50%.

I'm not posing this as a question that I have an answer to. I am just interested to hear what people think. The Pats offense has been the best in the league over the last three years without a home run hitter.

IMO, it's Welker. Moving the chains is of greater value to most offenses: it lets you win the TOP battle, rest your defense, and wear out opposing defenses.

The only real argument to the contrary is that having an over-the-top threat takes the top off of the defense and forces safeties to play much differently, and that's a valid point to an extent. With WRs, it at least makes the discussion a real one, although at a certain point it probably depends more on the other talent that you're surrounding the player with.

 

[Sivy]

Jackson is good, but Welker is better than him any day of the week. No question.

 

[Kasmir]

Football Outsiders is exactly a "sabermetrics for football" site. Sometime tomorrow they will publish their weekly "Quick Reads" column which reviews the best (and worst) performances at each skill position. You can be sure they'll have blurbs on both Gronk's and Witten's performances, which will both scored by their "DYAR" measure, i.e. "Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement"). They have thought of everything brought up in this thread and a lot more:

Here's their column from last week:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Week 7 Quick Reads

Anyone even remotely interested in the OP topic should know Football Outsiders.

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

If you saw both of these stat lines and knew nothing about the game, which player's production would you presume led to a greater chance of victory?

Rob Gronkowski- 13 targets, 8 receptions, 146 yards
Yards per target: 11.23; Yards per reception: 18.3

Jason Witten-- 22 targets, 18 receptions, 167 yards
Yards per target: 7.59; Yards per reception: 9.28

Using ONLY these stats:

21 less yards and 10 less receptions = greater efficiency.

Greater chance of victory must be Gronk.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Witten is like the Welker of TE's

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Which of Gronk or Witten was better? It's kinda like asking which is the better vehicle, a Lambo or a Ferrari?

 

[YearbookCurfew]

TDs > Yardage

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

is this thread real?

 

[pazrul72]

Obviously with the td's The GRONK had the better game so I will answer the other question chunk yardage or tons of catches? I think tons of catches is more frustrating to a defense. Chunk yardage it's ok we blew a coverage lets do better next time. When a guy gets catch after catch after catch I remember screaming will somebody, anybody cover Wayne Chrebet already!!! Probably the only jet I have ever been a fan of so I can imagine how Welker must drive opposing defenses nuts.