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RFA Victor Cruz

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by 1%er, Jan 3, 2013.

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  1. 1%er

    1%er Banned

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    Thoughts on offering Cruz a long term deal, we would lose are #1 to the Giants in exchange.

    Cruz could offer a replacement for Welker and more of a deep threat. He is also just 26.

    He went to UMASS
  2. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This forum had issues with Welker's drops throughout the season. Imagine their reaction when Cruz alligator arms one over the middle.

    The kid has talent, but he's probably going to cost just as much (if not more) than Welker. Further, Welker has already mastered and excelled in the system and has shown no signs of slowing down (in spite of the prognostications of some in the preseason). Sign #83 and let the Giants deal with Cruz.
  3. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    How the heck did the Pats miss this kid right in their back yard? Undrafted.
    :enranged::steamed::ugh::confused2::scream::mad: :bricks:
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  4. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They passed on Welker in part because they had Troy Brown.

    They passed on Cruz in part because they had Welker (and Edelman).
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  5. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1. The Giants will almost certainly lock Cruz up long term and prevent him from reaching the market.

    2. I'm not wild about giving up a 1st for a WR, as I wasn't with Mike Wallace last year. Cruz will cost a fortune to sign long term.

    Cruz is a good player. Wish we had found him. But that window has passed. At this point, I'm willing to bet that Markus Wheaton will be as good as Victor Cruz, will cost less than trading a 1st, and will be available for 4 years at a fraction of the price. Target him in the 2nd round.
  6. borg

    borg Rookie

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    1) Pats don't use #1s on WRs.......a position that touches the ball a handfull of times/game
    2) A #1 pick PLUS a big money contract??? Why do we keep going down this road and go against all we know of how BB operates. Under this scenario, you are asking BB to use resources that could land two solid starters....for one player? Did BB all of a sudden set aside the foundations of team building he has adhered to for decades ignoring his economic undergrad background.
    Seymour, Bledsoe, Branch.....BB is the seller, not the buyer.
  7. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As a hypothetical if we're swinging a first round pick I'd rather shoot it off to Arizona for Larry Fitzgerald.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  8. satz

    satz Rookie

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    After our history with Drafting and signing FA WR, i think we need to accept that we better stick with what works even if cost a little bit more money.

    we have consistently proved that we cannot draft and develop 1 in 10 yrs or sign a good FA that would work 50% of the time.

    At this point , developing/drafting/signing a WR to replace branch at the 3rd option is high priority. we had lloyd ,sign wes and try for the 3rd WR.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  9. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    Cruz only had one more dropped pass than Welker this year, but yeah, not sure you can expect Victor to have the same Vulcan mind-meld as Tom and Wes.
  10. NE_PATS_FAN_54

    NE_PATS_FAN_54 Rookie

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    Exactly. Not happening.
  11. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    I have a very hard time imagining a WR with no experience in our system getting a huge contract plus a #1. However I do hope someone gives him a ridiculous offer and takes him away from NY.
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the Jets should steal him from the Giants. They need help on offense. Give up their top 10 pick and take on another big money contract. Buy high, sell low. Sounds like their kind of move.
  13. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    I'll take that bet. $100.

    If Wheaton has more than 2,628 yards and 19 TDs in his first two seasons as a starter, you win.
  14. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    I don't like salsa dancing
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  15. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    With whom throwing him the ball?

    We need to lock Welker up now! Cruz is of course a great player, I'd love him here but we all know it probably won't happen.
  16. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    But I love TDs, and each time he salsa dances means he got one.
  17. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    I give Cruz a ton of credit for getting his head on straight (was kicked out of two schools before coming to UMASS) and working his butt of to be a top NFL player. Outside of that he showed a tremendous about of compassion and humanity and sympathy for the family of the son who died in Newtown.

    All of those traits show that he has the potential be be a Patriots player.

    But....

    Giving up a #1 for a WR that has never played in this offense AND shelling out big bucks is not the Patriot Way.
  18. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    Welker scores TDs too
  19. serifyn

    serifyn Rookie

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    The Patriots likely do most of their scouting in the SEC and on teams where bill has connections.

    It is funny/disappointing that more Umass kids have been drafted and picked up through Fa by the Giants and the Jets however when the Patriots are just a stones throw away.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  20. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Like....the same stadium
  21. Dragda

    Dragda Yes, it's really me... PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is no replacement for Welker. He's one of a kind.
  22. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    On far fewer targets. And Cruz completion % of 60 won't cut it here for the short to intermediate range target. Welker is down a bit at 67%, he previously topped 70% on average. Which is also where the TE's have to be. And truth be told that's where they'd like Lloyd to be. To tolerate less you'd have to be what Moss was in 2007 or what guys like Fitz and CJ are, high impact scoring threats. It's another risk reward calculation.
  23. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nothing against Cruz, but I'm hoping the Patriots look for a true burner of an outside receiver while keeping Welker for a few more years. That would seem to give this team maximum flexibility in the passing game, as an embarrassment of riches would keep at least one "top" guy on the sidelines at all time when everyone is healthy.

    Lloyd
    Burner WR
    Welker
    Gronk
    Hernandez
    Woodhead
  24. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    But he doesn't salsa.

    And lets not kid ourselves, Welker isnt half the deep threat Cruz is. Welker is an awesome receiver and I want him resigned but I think thats the one advantage Cruz has over him thus far.
  25. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    On how many targets and recs?


    Cruz may only have 1 more drop; but that is
    10 out of 96 passes = 10.4%
    vs Welker 9 out of 127 = 7.1%

    Then of course he had Eli throwing to him instead of TB; but still some of that Delta on the REC vs TGTS has to go to route running
    Cruz = 60%
    Welker = 68%

    Take the 3% less drops and 8% more receptions per target and you get that Welker is about 10-11% MORE EFFECTIVE than Cruz even if Cruz has more TDs and more breakaway big-gainers.

    If you wanted to make the case, THAT would be the argument to harp on... is that he takes the top off and would cause a moss-like synergistic effect that way.

    Arguing that he has equivalent drops on much lower targets/recs does not match with the goals of a BB-(ball control/take what they give you/no big mistakes) offense; that 3-11% means EFFICIENCY and FIRST DOWNS.
  26. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    Cruz isn't a number 1 receiver. He gets a lot catches due to hakeem nicks in that offense. If you want to replace welker, i would think a number 1 receiver is better.
  27. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    Do you think it wasmor to do with the Pats simply not realizing they'd nearly as good as they turned out to be?
  28. Sivy

    Sivy Rookie

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    Welker is better, so just sign him.
  29. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm still holding out hope that PK Sam comes back from the CFL and sets the league on fire for us.
  30. Nehalem

    Nehalem Rookie

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    If the Pats are looking for a guy to replace Welker I would prefer looking at Harvin.

    Slot Receiver, better deep ball skills than Welker, part-time running back, and elite kick returner.
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