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Reiss concerned about Cunningham


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I'm having trouble understanding why some people say Cunningham did nothing last year. It should at least be acknowledged that he had a solid rookie season (at the least).

Makes you wonder if the people that don't like Cunningham actually watched the games.

Are the missed sacks what aggravates this group? Kinda lost on this one...
 
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While we are at it we should cut Bodden too. That guy didn't do anything last season!
 
I'm having trouble understanding why some people say Cunningham did nothing last year. It should at least be acknowledged that he had a solid rookie season (at the least).

Makes you wonder if the people that don't like Cunningham actually watched the games.

Are the missed sacks what aggravates this group? Kinda lost on this one...

He danced with the right tackle a lot last season. People are overrating him simply because peyton manning threw a pick. I just don't think he's that good, he a JAG. The same people defending cunningham were the same guys arguing for shawn crable and chad jackson. If a guy can play, he can play, and we can tell early on. It doesn't matter whether he's a rookie or had injuries or not. Seymour, warren, wilfork, mayo, mcourty(sp) all showed they could play immediately. You can point to guys like tedy bruschi as example of a late bloomer, but those are exceptions to the rule
 
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He's possibly the overrated Patriot as well as Green Ellis.
 
He danced with the right tackle a lot last season. People are overrating him simply because peyton manning threw a pick. I just don't think he's that good, he a JAG. The same people defending cunningham were the same guys arguing for shawn crable and chad jackson. If a guy can play, you can play, and we can tell early on. It doesn't matter whether he's a rookie or had injuries or not. Seymour, warren, wilfork, mayo, mcourty(sp) all showed they could play immediately. You can point to guys like tedy bruschi as example of a late bloomer, but those are exceptions to the rule

There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin.
 
He danced with the right tackle a lot last season. People are overrating him simply because peyton manning threw a pick. I just don't think he's that good, he a JAG. The same people defending cunningham were the same guys arguing for shawn crable and chad jackson. If a guy can play, he can play, and we can tell early on. It doesn't matter whether he's a rookie or had injuries or not. Seymour, warren, wilfork, mayo, mcourty(sp) all showed they could play immediately. You can point to guys like tedy bruschi as example of a late bloomer, but those are exceptions to the rule

You may want to throw on last year's game against Baltimore if you want to see proof that Cunningham can play.
 
He danced with the right tackle a lot last season. People are overrating him simply because peyton manning threw a pick. I just don't think he's that good, he a JAG. The same people defending cunningham were the same guys arguing for shawn crable and chad jackson. If a guy can play, you can play, and we can tell early on. It doesn't matter whether he's a rookie or had injuries or not. Seymour, warren, wilfork, mayo, mcourty(sp) all showed they could play immediately. You can point to guys like tedy bruschi as example of a late bloomer, but those are exceptions to the rule

Look at the long list of players you specifically name. What do they all have in common? You give up? They are ALL first round picks. Mayo was 10th overall and Warren was 13th, for crying out loud. Cunningham is a third round pick. To expect him to immediately come in and be a dynamo or DROY (like Mayo) is setting the bar too high. There is a reason why some guys get drafted earlier than others. We all know that, and to argue it would just be you trying to prove a point. Cunningham wasn't a first round talent and, therefore, he didn't go in the first round (or second for that matter). I don't totally disagree with you that you can generally tell when you are looking at a real baller and someone whose best is yet to come, but it does take time for some people to click.

I'm not suggesting that all first round picks become stars while all third round picks don't. You could certainly point to some third round picks that became studs (like Tedy) or HOFers, while pointing out first round busts. But as you stated in your post, they'd be the exception, not the rule.

The jury is still out on Cunningham. To dismiss someone after one season is utterly ridiculous. Not everyone comes into the league and lights things up like Jevon Kearse. Some people take a little longer to become what they're going to become. If Cunningham becomes something great, then that'll be great for NE and it's fans. If not, then so be it. We just won't know until the kid gets a few more professional games under his belt. Let's reconvene and revisit this topic after the season is over, shall we?
 
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Here is Mike Reiss's take on Cunningham's performance in camp as of August 9, 2011:

"Q. Mike, do you interpret the plethora of recent defensive line signings as a bit of a referendum on Jermaine Cunningham's ability to hold down the defensive end position? With the Pats' multiple look defensive approach, is there a chance they use him as an OLB in sub situations? -- Zack (Somerville, Mass.)

A. Zack, I wouldn't write Cunningham off just yet, but I do think he's had a slow start in camp. Specifically in one-on-ones in camp, I haven't seen much pass-rush diversity, but I think it's too early to dismiss his potential impact. Overall, I think Cunningham is an on-the-line player in this system, and when I think of an outside linebacker in sub packages, a player like Gary Guyton fits better in my view."
New England Patriots Mailbag -- Bill Belichick using camp as his petri dish - ESPN Boston

Posted here in view of thread title and to facilitate discussion. Originally posted in Dunlap v. Cunningham thread in Patriots Draft Talk section.
 
There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin.

I tried to set as much straight as I could. I did my best. I'm exhausted now, though. There was so much more that was wrong that I didn't even attempt to get into.
 
WTF? I was under the impression Guyton was strictly an ILB in the Patriot's system?
 
WTF? I was under the impression Guyton was strictly an ILB in the Patriot's system?

He's speaking about the 4-3 ("sub-packages") in which Guyton would line up outside.
 
He's speaking about the 4-3 ("sub-packages") in which Guyton would line up outside.

My bad, should have read more carefully.

Regardless, I can't find myself getting too worked up about training camp reports, either in the positive or negative direction.
 
I'm having trouble understanding why some people say Cunningham did nothing last year. It should at least be acknowledged that he had a solid rookie season (at the least).

Makes you wonder if the people that don't like Cunningham actually watched the games.

Are the missed sacks what aggravates this group? Kinda lost on this one...

What aggravated me was the many times he got his hands on the qb but couldn't bring him down. My feeling after last year was that if he got stronger in the offseason those hurries would become sacks. I guess we will see if he is stronger very soon.
 
I just don't think he's that good, he a JAG.

I wish I was as perceptive as you, I need more of a sample size than 1 year before I judge a player.
 
He danced with the right tackle a lot last season. People are overrating him simply because peyton manning threw a pick. I just don't think he's that good, he a JAG. The same people defending cunningham were the same guys arguing for shawn crable and chad jackson. If a guy can play, he can play, and we can tell early on. It doesn't matter whether he's a rookie or had injuries or not. Seymour, warren, wilfork, mayo, mcourty(sp) all showed they could play immediately. You can point to guys like tedy bruschi as example of a late bloomer, but those are exceptions to the rule

Who overrated him? Ummm I hate to break the news to you, but Warren only had 33/19 solo tackles and 1 sack in his rookie season. He looked good at times but was not consistant. It really wasnt until years 3-4 he blossomed. Cunningham had 34/27 solo tackles and 1 sack as a rookie. Seems like you list two exception yourself. I am sure there are many more.
 
I wish I was as perceptive as you, I need more of a sample size than 1 year before I judge a player.

You need more of a sample size than one year to judge McCourty? You need more of a sample size than one year to judge Zac Robinson, or Jake Ingram?
 
You need more of a sample size than one year to judge McCourty? You need more of a sample size than one year to judge Zac Robinson, or Jake Ingram?

Wasn't it Anderson who we just signed who had a ton of sacks as a rookie and then has struggled ever since? His statement is not unfair or unreasonable.
 
You need more of a sample size than one year to judge McCourty? You need more of a sample size than one year to judge Zac Robinson, or Jake Ingram?

I don't think you can make a categorical rule either way. In many respects, it's perspective, position, and even a player-specific judgment.

JMO.
 
I don't mind the guy.


So pretty much everyone felt that a rush linebacker was the biggest need the Patriots had going into the draft, and they finally addressed it with Jermaine Cunningham in the second round. I had watched some film on him, and mocked him to the Patriots at 53 in my "What the Patriots will do" mock of my mock sampler platter. Breaking him down, he seemed like a quality SEC defensive end, a little undersized but athletic, productive but not a tremendous standout in any area. Once the Patriots drafted him, I figured I'd go back and take a close look at him. The first thing that stands out is his rumored short shuttle time. Coming out of high school, he ran a confirmed sub 4.10 20 yard shuttle at a little over 200 pounds. Now at 266 pounds, he was rumored to have run between a 4.12 and 4.30 at his pro day. No matter where he truly fell in that range, if the time is accurate, that is an excellent result.

One trend I've noticed when evaluating pass rushers that made the transition to the NFL, especially this year and last, is that nearly all the successful smaller defensive ends and rush linebackers had good to great vertical leaps, broad jumps and short shuttle times. 40 times are almost irrelevant, as pass rushing is all about burst, flexibility to bend around the corner, and the ability to transfer speed to power. There isn't an elite pass rusher in the league that doesn't possess the ability to do at least one of those things at an elite level, and most possess two or all three. So about a month and a half ago, I started working on a stat to quickly compare prospects against current pros and each other in terms of how well they project as a pass rusher. When the Patriots drafted him, I quickly looked him up on my spreadsheet, and realized I hadn't put all his numbers in. Once I did, I ran it through a comparison of current rush linebackers, and he matched up well against some of the better pass rushers in the league. I didn't see anyone that he really resembled though, until I checked him against the 4-3 defensive ends, and one comparison became immediately obvious: Jared Allen.

Allen wasn't highly sought after in the 2004 draft. A 4th rounder, he tested pretty well athletically but didn't come from a major conference. What's interesting though, is that despite his pedestrian 40 time, 10 yard split, 3 cone time, vertical and bench press rep numbers, he had solid measurables in terms of weight (266, the same as Cunningham), height (6'5.4") and most importantly, broad jump (10') and short shuttle time (4.33 sec). The fact that he turned himself into one of the premier pass rushing specialists in the league should have been no surprise; at his size, those numbers indicated explosive ability on par with the better pass rushers already in the league. Comparing the Patriots' newest draftee Cunningham to Allen, we see some extremely similar numbers. Cunningham weighs the same amount, is an inch and a half shorter, but possesses superior vertical leap(35" to Allen's 33") and short shuttle numbers. The rest of their results are almost identical.

What does this mean? Nothing, right now. It's just a projection of athletic ability, and there are several other important factors that will come into play. But considering the level of competition Cunningham faced in college compared to Allen, his similar attributes in explosion oriented measures and size, and his superior athleticism, as evidenced by his ability to play in space at Florida, Cunningham's upside may be far greater than I originally estimated. Don't be surprised if he turns into a guy that is routinely in the top 10-15 players in the league in terms of sacks and pressures.

RichterGuy^ NFL forum. Good insight

I think Jermaine had a good year. It seems like ppl begrudge him b/c we HIT right away w/ GRONK ,McCourty, Hernandez, Spikes, (Mesko) arguably. People see Cunningham was out performed by a draft anomaly in the sense that 4-5 ROOKIES made huge contributions that overshadowed what Cunningham had done. I will wait w/ the guy it is only year 2.
 
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