PostGame Thread POST GAME THREAD: Week 3 - Patriots Beat the Jets 15-10

[Wozzy]

The main complaint I had with Mac and BOB was with those crappy 3rd & short calls. Between 2 prayers to JuJu and Mac trying to QB sneak it over & over, I was throwing shoes all over the house.

I hated the fact they needed 3rd and 4 or whatever it was and they were slinging it thirty yards downfield.

Get the damned first down.

 

[turkeyneck]

I think JuJu ran the wrong route. JuJu still doesn't know what he is doing. I don't think that play is on Mac.

I was not a Myers fan either, but the switch has not worked out well. After watching JuJu, I can see why Boutte started and played more than JuJu at first. Let's hope Boutte is back soon. At least Boutte ran the right route and caught the ball at the end of the game, JuJu can't even do that.

Both Juju and Douglas are not reading what Mac is reading. Juju is in Ocho territory. I'm ready to cut him loose. Brady would have sent Juju to another dimension like Billy Mumy in the Twilight Zone.

 

[condon84]

I don't care how it looked, a win is a win especially early this season.

We looked decent against the Eagles and Dolphins but at the end of the year those are gonna be under the 'L' column.

What matters is this team get as many W's under their belt and continue to improve. Our OL looked better. Mac looked decent in the first half and our defense made plays when it mattered.

First month is like an extended pre season especially under the new CBA rules.

 

[Wozzy]

I think JuJu ran the wrong route. JuJu still doesn't know what he is doing. I don't think that play is on Mac.

I was not a Myers fan either, but the switch has not worked out well. After watching JuJu, I can see why Boutte started and played more than JuJu at first. Let's hope Boutte is back soon. At least Boutte ran the right route and caught the ball at the end of the game, JuJu can't even do that.

Mac looks comfortable with Henry and Bourne, less so with Juju and Gesicki.

He has experience with the first two so it's not surprising. It was also raining. These guys will build better chemistry.

 

[turkeyneck]

I hated the fact they needed 3rd and 4 or whatever it was and they were slinging it thirty yards downfield.

Get the damned first down.

Yeah, way too much of that "we're gonna surprise 'em with this one" approach. Just keep getting the 1st downs.

 

[Wax Frog]

@Triumph @sb1

 

[Triumph]

Don't get so triggered man, I was complimenting you. Zappy isn't good, he's great. He was 2-0 last year after all. That's why your standards have to come up a bit!

Your still in the running for the Super Bowl halftime show.

Dont screw it up dissing your QB from Alabama.

 

[Sicilian]

I hated the fact they needed 3rd and 4 or whatever it was and they were slinging it thirty yards downfield.

Get the damned first down.

Yeah, way too much of that "we're gonna surprise 'em with this one" approach. Just keep getting the 1st downs.

It feels like this has been the case for years now, going back to McDaniels and O'Brien's first stint, both with and without Brady. I don't mind it once in a while, earlier in the game when you're trying to steal a chunk. But when you're trying to bleed clock, even if the defense is giving you a look that's taking away the shorter stuff, there HAS to be a play or route combination that can still nab you 3-4 yards when you have to have it. Not sure if it's on O'B for play call/design, or Mac for getting greedy on the pre-snap read, but hopefully they can work that out.

 

[Real fan 02]

I’m glad the Dolphins are putting up those numbers right now at the start. Reminds me of the ‘07 Pats offense. Curious to see what it looks like toward the end of the season.

Yes, and believe it not Tua is in MVP conversations!! However as you mentioned let's see how we fare in few weeks against them.. Hopefully we'll be at full strength in the secondary by then..

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Juju is in Ocho territory. I'm ready to cut him loose.

Yup. That is why JuJu looks slow. Completely lost. Let's hope Boutte is back soon. Too bad Douglas is lost too - hopefully he figures it out.

 

[sb1]

Your still in the running for the Super Bowl halftime show.

Dont screw it up dissing your QB from Alabama.

Now now, let's give your boy some credit. He was 2-0 last year! I'm glad someone taped when he was showing off his arm at the combine he's got the best arm in football hands down. Never saw it before but I see it now!

Zappy will replace Mac a week from now and the Patriots won't lose another game again. You said week 5 but it's going to be week 4. Stop letting me trigger you so easily and embrace the feeevah!

 

[Sfpat]

For example, on the last 3rd down incompletion, every route was run to the sidelines with no one in the middle of the field, not even a Jet. A simple 5 yard curl by a TE would have been successful. BoB needs to attack the middle of the field more.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Yes, and believe it not Tua is in MVP conversations!! However as you mentioned let's see how we fare in few weeks against them.. Hopefully we'll be at full strength in the secondary by then..

Tua totally should be in that conversation. People here dismiss him, but Tua (thanks to his weapons and OC/Coach) is the real deal.

 

[Patsfan1958]

 

[Thelonious]

I found the offense's sloppy indolence for most of the second half annoying and discouraging. Why practice playing lousy ball just because the other team is so bad that you might well be able to do so with impunity? Why practice the goddam lousy habits you are assertedly trying to get past? Some tried to characterize these failures as some sort of clever strategic approach, perfectly talored to the requirements of this particular game. Horseshit.

I have tried to let my annoyance go and to frame a more balanced take on the game since yesterday.

1) We barely beat the Jets, led by Zack Wilson. Any take on the game must take cognizance of this dismal fact. There's a lot of talk about how important it is that a win allows the team to "feel better about themselves." That's nice, I suppose, but the need to consider what is to be done regarding the team's deficiencies remains. I simply reject the notion that any mention of the team's needs, any attention paid to what must be done or changed to address them, makes one not a "true fan." More horseshit, imho. Better to put down those pom poms and step away.

2) There something wrong, likely medically, with Rhamondre. I don't know what it is, and we are unlikely to find out. He is tentative in anticipation of contact when he runs, and seems antsy ("ghosts"?) when it comes to completing pass routes. I'm glad we have Zeke, and I hope Rhamondre can get squared away.

3) The defense is good. I suppose one could quibble about the inert play at times in the middle of the D-line and worry about the injuries. It might be nice to have "The World's Greatest Linebackers," but I wouldn't want to be a whiny ingrate, what my father used to call "a dog in a manger," though I'm not sure he used the idiom rightly. The defense is good. There ya go.

4) Mac ain't the problem. It may not be crystal clear that he's The Solution, I suppose, but he ain't the problem. I guess he ought to stop swatting people in the junk, a practice which doesn't quite fall neatly under the "competitiveness" rubric. TBH, it doesn't really bother me. It's sort of amusing to see a choir boy lookalike pull a Romanowski. The way Mac hangs in there to make throws shows that there is some legitimate toughness there as well. Anyway, blaming Mac for the team's shortcomings is a lazy and erroneous take in my mind. He may be a thug, but he's our thug.

5) I will say again that neither Davonte nor JuJu is likely to contribute much this year and more broadly that Bill the GM's inclination to take on "veteran receivers" is a perennially bad practice he ought to drop. More often than not, an "experienced receiver" is a slow and injury-prone receiver. I understand the Moss/Brown (sorta) exceptions, but no GM in his right mind will confuse Parker or SS with those guys. C'mon now. The proper use of these two can can only be as placeholders until the younger guys develop, as to an encouraging degree they are.

6) Fire up the Photo Shop; cue the lame wordplay, get out those old Bangles LP's. The Pharoah is in the house.

7) The jury is 100% out on the O-line. This uncertainty represents progress over not-unreasonable concerns they might be hopelessly, terminally incompetent. Brown is an ass, but he's a very big ass. Strange might be anything from solid though unspectacular to fragile bust. So we have risen from despair to stone-cold uncertainty. Such is the nature of "progress" for the 2023 Pats.

8) So, was this this a "moral loss." Maybe a little. We proved we are better than the Jets, which is sort of like damning oneself with faint praise. Much remains to be proven: Can the defense sustain its good play against contending teams? Is Mac worthy of a long-term contract, given the magnitude these days ($) of such commitments? Is there an O-line there or just tryouts for The Biggest Loser, NFL Edition? What's Rhamondre's problem? Mac: what are ya? And so on. I had them at 7 or 8 wins. 8 seems a little hopeful, 7 seems likely, but 6 seems possible. The possibility of another .500ish record, finishing out of the playoffs, doesn't bother me very much. This is a team mid-rebuild, a team which wasted an entire season last year, a team somewhat lacking in talent, a team with a faltering GM. Some of our problems are on the way to a solutions; some are not. That's just who and where we are.

9) Dallas is gonna be really determined to show that yesterday's game was not indicative of who they are. If we want to win next week's game, we'll have to adopt a similar attitude. If we are next Sunday what we were this Sunday, it will not go well.

 

[ivanvamp]

The score was close, but make no mistake - the Pats completely dominated that game yesterday.

Total Yards: NE 358, NY 171
First Downs: NE 17, NY 12
TOP: NE 31:52, NY 28:08

The no call on what should have been DPI on the Jets on that deep pass down the left sideline to Douglas cost NE 3, maybe 7 points. That was an egregious error by the refs. Then they gave NY a gift DPI on their only TD drive when Wilson threw an uncatchable pass and the receiver completely flopped in the back of the end zone AFTER he was the one grabbing Bryant.

The score was close. The game wasn't.

 

[upstater1]

Paraphrasing a prior comment of mine - I'm good with pouring assets into D, but it would be nice to see heavier investment in the unit that handles most of this trivial thing called scoring.

I don't mean to pile on you, but this is getting tired.

What's the argument here? That the Patriots shouldn't have taken Gonzalez or Keion White and instead taken WRs?

Which ones.

As for OL, I challenge you to find any team in the league that has expended more draft resources on OL the last couple of years. We're suffering because our rookies are just learning their positions in the pros, and because of injuries to Strange and Onwenu (and concussions to Brown and Sow).

But look at the resources expended the last 7 years: 1st Strange, 4th Sow, 4th Andrews, 5th Mafi, 6th Hines, 7th Steuber, 6th Onwenu, 6th Sherman, 6th Herron, 7th Woodard, 3rd Cajuste, 4th Froholdt, 1st Wynn, 3rd Garcis, 5th McDermott.

Add in the trades for people like Vederian Lowe and Tyrone Wheatley Jr., the signings of Anderson, Reiff.

Then you look at the FA market: Smith-Schuster was the best FA on the market. It's looking like a bad signing. Here's another bad signing: Nelson Algholor, who was the biggest signing in his year. Prior to that we signed Bourne. Now look at the TE position: Gesicki, Hunter Henry, Jonnu Smith.

We've expended a lot of resources on the OL and at WR/TE but we're not having the same level of success as on defense.

When I see the Patriots bringing in the top WRs available in FA, and for it not to work out, I can only conclude that top WRs cannot be found in FA. Teams sign their own, they draft them, or else they trade them for premium prices (ex. Diggs for 2 #1s).

Now, Tyreek Hill was acquired cheaply if you ask me (multiple draft picks), BUT he wanted to go to Miami. You can't force a player to make a switch to a team he doesn't want to go to especially when the only reason he's being traded is his contract is expiring.

So the only kind of argument I see here is people saying we should've taken Zay Flowers over Gonzalez. Some have actually made that argument on this board. I don't agree with them. Nor do I agree that Phillips, Mills and Jennings would be starters on other teams. I mean, Phillips and Mills were sent on their way by their prior teams, we got them cheaply.

 

[upstater1]

I found the offense's sloppy indolence for most of the second half annoying and discouraging. Why practice playing lousy ball just because the other team is so bad that you might well be able to do so with impunity? Why practice the goddam lousy habits you are assertedly trying to get past? Some tried to characterize these failures as some sort of clever strategic approach, perfectly talored to the requirements of this particular game. Horseshit.

I have tried to let my annoyance go and to frame a more balanced take on the game since yesterday.

1) We barely beat the Jets, led by Zack Wilson. Any take on the game must take cognizance of this dismal fact. There's a lot of talk about how important it is that a win allows the team to "feel better about themselves." That's nice, I suppose, but the need to consider what is to be done regarding the team's deficiencies remains. I simply reject the notion that any mention of the team's needs, any attention paid to what must be done or changed to address them, makes one not a "true fan." More horseshit, imho. Better to put down those pom poms and step away.

5) I will say again that neither Davonte nor JuJu is likely to contribute much this year and more broadly that Bill the GM's inclination to take on "veteran receivers" is a perennially bad practice he ought to drop. More often than not, an "experienced receiver" is a slow and injury-prone receiver. I understand the Moss/Brown (sorta) exceptions, but no GM in his right mind will confuse Parker or SS with those guys. C'mon now. The proper use of these two can can only be as placeholders until the younger guys develop, as to an encouraging degree they are.

On #1, just remember that the Bills have lost 2 times in a row to Zack Wilson. So... he is horrible against the Patriots, and he is horrible PERIOD. But that team manages to win games against teams the Patriots can't beat WITH him at the helm.

#5, JuJu had a very good year just last year and was the best WR on the FA market. Your choices are very limited. He wasn't slow last year.

 

[archstanton543]

I don't mean to pile on you, but this is getting tired.

What's the argument here? That the Patriots shouldn't have taken Gonzalez or Keion White and instead taken WRs?

Which ones.

As for OL, I challenge you to find any team in the league that has expended more draft resources on OL the last couple of years. We're suffering because our rookies are just learning their positions in the pros, and because of injuries to Strange and Onwenu (and concussions to Brown and Sow).

But look at the resources expended the last 7 years: 1st Strange, 4th Sow, 4th Andrews, 5th Mafi, 6th Hines, 7th Steuber, 6th Onwenu, 6th Sherman, 6th Herron, 7th Woodard, 3rd Cajuste, 4th Froholdt, 1st Wynn, 3rd Garcis, 5th McDermott.

Add in the trades for people like Vederian Lowe and Tyrone Wheatley Jr., the signings of Anderson, Reiff.

Then you look at the FA market: Smith-Schuster was the best FA on the market. It's looking like a bad signing. Here's another bad signing: Nelson Algholor, who was the biggest signing in his year. Prior to that we signed Bourne. Now look at the TE position: Gesicki, Hunter Henry, Jonnu Smith.

We've expended a lot of resources on the OL and at WR/TE but we're not having the same level of success as on defense.

When I see the Patriots bringing in the top WRs available in FA, and for it not to work out, I can only conclude that top WRs cannot be found in FA. Teams sign their own, they draft them, or else they trade them for premium prices (ex. Diggs for 2 #1s).

Now, Tyreek Hill was acquired cheaply if you ask me (multiple draft picks), BUT he wanted to go to Miami. You can't force a player to make a switch to a team he doesn't want to go to especially when the only reason he's being traded is his contract is expiring.

So the only kind of argument I see here is people saying we should've taken Zay Flowers over Gonzalez. Some have actually made that argument on this board. I don't agree with them. Nor do I agree that Phillips, Mills and Jennings would be starters on other teams. I mean, Phillips and Mills were sent on their way by their prior teams, we got them cheaply.

They should have been drafting and developing WR's the last 4 yearsvso it doesn't have to come down to one draft when the position is in dire need of a talent infusion.

Who should that have picked in this past draft? I don't know. I don't follow the college game or draft.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I don't mean to pile on you, but this is getting tired.

What's the argument here? That the Patriots shouldn't have taken Gonzalez or Keion White and instead taken WRs?

Which ones.

As for OL, I challenge you to find any team in the league that has expended more draft resources on OL the last couple of years. We're suffering because our rookies are just learning their positions in the pros, and because of injuries to Strange and Onwenu (and concussions to Brown and Sow).

But look at the resources expended the last 7 years: 1st Strange, 4th Sow, 4th Andrews, 5th Mafi, 6th Hines, 7th Steuber, 6th Onwenu, 6th Sherman, 6th Herron, 7th Woodard, 3rd Cajuste, 4th Froholdt, 1st Wynn, 3rd Garcis, 5th McDermott.

Add in the trades for people like Vederian Lowe and Tyrone Wheatley Jr., the signings of Anderson, Reiff.

Then you look at the FA market: Smith-Schuster was the best FA on the market. It's looking like a bad signing. Here's another bad signing: Nelson Algholor, who was the biggest signing in his year. Prior to that we signed Bourne. Now look at the TE position: Gesicki, Hunter Henry, Jonnu Smith.

We've expended a lot of resources on the OL and at WR/TE but we're not having the same level of success as on defense.

When I see the Patriots bringing in the top WRs available in FA, and for it not to work out, I can only conclude that top WRs cannot be found in FA. Teams sign their own, they draft them, or else they trade them for premium prices (ex. Diggs for 2 #1s).

Now, Tyreek Hill was acquired cheaply if you ask me (multiple draft picks), BUT he wanted to go to Miami. You can't force a player to make a switch to a team he doesn't want to go to especially when the only reason he's being traded is his contract is expiring.

So the only kind of argument I see here is people saying we should've taken Zay Flowers over Gonzalez. Some have actually made that argument on this board. I don't agree with them. Nor do I agree that Phillips, Mills and Jennings would be starters on other teams. I mean, Phillips and Mills were sent on their way by their prior teams, we got them cheaply.

Adrian Phillips is on a 3 year 12.75 million extension. He has a $4.5 million dollar cap hit. That's 34th in the NFL in APY. He's getting paid starter money and plays less than 25% of the snaps.

Jalen Mills is making 2.5 million and plays less than 25% of the snaps.

The best available FA WR was Jakobi Meyers. He received the most guaranteed money and has 16 receptions 166 yards 2 TDs in 2 games so far. Most teams would re-sign a 26 year old WR2 instead of throwing money to a zone beater slot WR.

They guaranteed $8.7 million to Reiff, Anderson & McDermott. None of them can play. Orlando Brown Jr. was available & received 31 million guaranteed. A starting LT was available and they didn't want to pay him.

Nobody is arguing not drafting Gonzalez & White. I was pumped when they drafted both & was surprised White made it to round 2. Did they need another box safety at pick 76 though? Their resource management has been questionable on the offensive side of the ball IMO.