Post Brady? More like Post BGEMMCTHW

[PATS16N0]

Shouldn’t have went for it on 4th and 1.
Should have gave the ball back to can’t-handle-the-pressure Peyton and let him either make the comeback or throw his typical big moment interception.

In retrospect, Belichick has lost us a lot of games and I’m not even hating.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

This is dumb because before Gronk, Edelman, Mason, McCourty, Chung, Thuney, Hightower, and James White there was Brady, and the Pats were still winning superbowls and making it to the AFC championship or super bowl every year.

What about before Brady? We were 5-13, missed the playoffs with a 5-11 season and started 0-2 before Brady changed everything.

Does that mean Bill didn't play a key role as HC or that no other player helped? Of course not but it's more than obtuse to not recognize that Brady was by far the biggest impact on the Pats winning for 2 decades.

A lot of posters on this board thought Brady was going to look bad with Arians because this board viewed him as a joke of a HC. Turns out when Bruce Arians had a HOF QB (Warner and Brady) he could make it to the superbowl, win the superbowl. Also turns out that when Belicheck doesn't have a HOF QB he can barely make the playoffs

I can see this being held against him in the GOAT HC discussion.

Reid, Gibbs, and Landry were not dependent on a HOF QB to achieve all of their success. Reid made the postseason with McNabb, Smith, and a recovering Vick. He made the postseason in 2006 with old Garcia.

 

[PATS16N0]

>Tom Brady throws an absolute dime

“iT’s ThE sYsTeM.”

 

[gobesmug]

Hold on let me come up with a catchy acronym for McGinest, Bruschi, Wilfork, Seymour, Faulk, Harrison, Milloy, Law, Branch, Givens, Light, Koppen, Neal, Dillon

It better be catchy or I'm bringing up the benching of you know who and when lol

 

[TheRainMaker]

Hold on let me come up with a catchy acronym for McGinest, Bruschi, Wilfork, Seymour, Faulk, Harrison, Milloy, Law, Branch, Givens, Light, Koppen, Neal, Dillon

These guys wouldn't have been that relevant without stabilized play at QB. Harrison doesn't join the Pats and Bill (if he was still there) isn't trading for Dillon.

A QB certainly can't win games by himself, but WR's, RB's, OL, DL, LB's, DB's and special teams are absolutely reliant on how the QB performs.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

These guys wouldn't have been that relevant without stabilized play at QB. Harrison doesn't join the Pats and Bill (if he was still there) isn't trading for Dillon.

A QB certainly can't win games by himself, but WR's, RB's, OL, DL, LB's, DB's and special teams are absolutely reliant on how the QB performs.

Basically all of the coaches and players over the course of the dynasty owe a good chunk of their fame and fortune to TB12. Not that they wouldn’t have been impressive in playing/coaching pro football and not that many wouldn’t have been great players. But in terms of the mystique, the championships, etc let’s be honest. Like Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen would have their place in the NBA but their immortality is because of one legend. People might not like this truth and push against it but it’s the truth. Part of the fun of seeing TB12 in Tampa is that the organization and his teammates inherently understood this.

 

[1960Pats]

I can see this being held against him in the GOAT HC discussion.

Reid, Gibbs, and Landry were not dependent on a HOF QB to achieve all of their success. Reid made the postseason with McNabb, Smith, and a recovering Vick. He made the postseason in 2006 with old Garcia.

I can easily see his record without Brady being brought into the HC discussion. With every season that goes by Bill's legacy loses a little of it's shine. But he only has himself to blame.

How about this tidbit? Reid, Triplin and Harbawl, all current HCs, have had a total of 5 losing seasons in 58 years with many different QBs, none of them named Brady.
Bill has squeezed 8 losing seasons into just 10 years, the 10 he didn't have Brady.

 

[Ivan]

And whose fault is it that talent wasn't replaced?

Gronk left and Bill basically didn't figure out a way to get any production out of the position at all until he signed Hunter Henry. He just punted on the position 2019 and whiffed hard on two third round tight ends in 2020 who couldn't even get activated on game days when there was pretty much no one at the position.

Edelman wore down and retired like lots of receivers in their mid-30's except he is one of the few guys Bill actually had a suitable replacement to some extent. Meyers was a different type of receiver but slid into the slot receiver role and did well there. Of course we know what happened with him and March.

Shaq Mason is part of the complete mess at guard that Bill created the last few years. He franchised Thuney in a lost year in 2020 and cost us a 2021 comp pick. He then let Thuney walk in 2021, traded Mason in 2022, and completely bungled negotiations with Karras, and ended up reaching on a guard in the first round last year. The cherry on top is Strange isn't even good.

McCourty is in the Edelman category but doesn't seem to have a true replacement and for some reason Bill decided one of our better playmakers, Kyle Dugger, should play out of position in McCourty's free safety centerfield role which limits Dugger's impact. Luckily Peppers is playing well to help offset that.

Chung was adequately replaced with Dugger and now Peppers.

Thuney is part of the mess at guard with the Mason situation. Thuney will probably be an all-pro in KC this year.

Hightower is been replaced by Bentley for the most part. Bentley is a solid player but definitely a downgrade.

Post-James White era is like the post-Gronk era. Bill has apparently decided to just completely neglect the satellite back role. I guess in theory it was Ty Montgomery but he is a special teamer who never plays RB.

We lost good players due to retirement, trades, free agency, etc the same way any team would. Bill just didn't replace or adequately replace most of them. Bill used to always have guys waiting until the wheels started coming off. Matt Light to Solder then the wheels fell off with Wynn. Kevin Faulk, to Danny Woodhead, to Shane Vereen, to James White to no one. Troy Brown to Welker, to Edelman and Amendola, to Jakobi to no one. Some important positions on the roster Bill has missed badly or just ignored. It really is no surprise the roster is as bad as it is.

Funny how it’s Belichick’s “ fault” that all those great players haven’t been replaced, but not to his credit that they were here to begin with.

 

[sb1]

Bill’s record without Brady won’t stop him from going into Canton on the first ballot but spygate might. One voter says he’s not voting for BB for that reason. Stupid but these people have their minds made up on that.

 

[sb1]

Bill didn’t trust his defense enough to punt on 4th and 2 (to be fair Faulk did make it) vs Colts…and opted for a low percentage FG to take the lead against Brady and the defending champion Bucs instead of asking his rookie QB who was playing very well to convert a 4th and 3… but he trusted his defense enough with Jordan Richards and a bunch of guys playing out of position to bench our best tackling cornerback in the biggest game of the season.

Weird.

 

[1960Pats]

Funny how it’s Belichick’s “ fault” that all those great players haven’t been replaced, but not to his credit that they were here to begin with.

It's a double edged sword for the team right now. It isn't just the fact that he dumped some of the biggest names in football. He also didn't replace them with anything.

Bill didn't draft some of the key players from Dynasty I. He inherited them.

 

[1960Pats]

Bill’s record without Brady won’t stop him from going into Canton on the first ballot but spygate might. One voter says he’s not voting for BB for that reason. Stupid but these people have their minds made up on that.

Just another example of a stain on the team that will be with us long after Bill's gone. He didn't help with the made up cheating with deflated balls either when he slid Brady under the bus. Which reminds me, whenever I think back to that charade it always comes back to the fact that the only person who violated anything with the footballs in that game was the NYFL official who was stealing them. He was probably a former Jet.

 

[1960Pats]

Bill didn’t trust his defense enough to punt on 4th and 2 (to be fair Faulk did make it) vs Colts…and opted for a low percentage FG to take the lead against Brady and the defending champion Bucs instead of asking his rookie QB who was playing very well to convert a 4th and 3… but he trusted his defense enough with Jordan Richards and a bunch of guys playing out of position to bench our best tackling cornerback in the biggest game of the season.

Weird.

That whole sequence is another of Bill's errors that gets overlooked or ignored.
1) They had the ball on 3rd and 2 with a few seconds more than 2 minutes left and passed the ball incomplete.
2) They called their last TO.
3) Then on 4th and 2 they passed complete but it was ruled short of the 1st down.
4) Because they passed the ball on 3rd and 4th down the clock stayed a few seconds over 2 minutes.
5) And because they used their last TO they couldn't appeal the call.
6) And it was a dumb call to begin with. As someone here mentioned upstream PEDton could have easily gagged one up if they punted.

 

[PATS16N0]

@Ian
Why does the winner emoji look like the opposite of winning?

 

[Real fan 02]

Belichick has won 0 titles since Jordan Richards left. I'm just sayin'...

I'll tell ya. He's really struggling since he released Cyrus Jones and joeuan Williams ...

 

[Real fan 02]

Bill likes the quiet/humble-less talented guys who won't make waves.

As long as they aren't making more than him, then he loves the players!

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bill’s record without Brady won’t stop him from going into Canton on the first ballot but spygate might. One voter says he’s not voting for BB for that reason. Stupid but these people have their minds made up on that.

He should've left when Brady left. Now with each year that goes by, he legacy continues to get tarnished with the losses piling up. The national media has taken notice. Without Brady, he reminds me of Coach Red Beaulieu from "The Waterboy" who was reliant on his playbook he took from Coach Klein. I haven't seen Bill this animated making weird faces/gestures and yelling at refs since he first started with the Pats. He had a 20 year break of looking stoic on the sidelines which fans and media thought was so cute. Those days are over.

Bill didn't draft some of the key players from Dynasty I. He inherited them.

Yep. The team had high expectation when was brought in, but he made them worse which resulted in them going 5-11 in 2000. Nobody expected that. As the national media said, they were the least talented team in the league in 2001 and would've missed the playoffs without Tom Brady surprisingly succeeding on the field.

 

[Wozzy]

The Pat’s “went all in” from 2014-2019, they played in four Super Bowls and won three of them.

By 2020 a quarter of their cap space was gone, spent on dead cap and Gilmore had the biggest cap hit in the NFL because they used his contract twice to kick debt down the road to sign players at the trade deadline in 2018 and 2019.

Borrowing from existing contracts, signing older vet players, trading draft picks into future years, getting old… there was always going to be a price to pay for this.

Nobody in the league had won three rings over the same time period since Tom was on a rookie deal back in 2000-2004.

The Pats went a decade without winning a ring despite having Tom at QB and BB at coach. If you don’t understand the salary cap, you can’t understand team building.

The Rams traded away every first round pick for 7 years as well as accruing a ton of cap debt… they won a single ring. Now they’re paying for it.

People who became Patriots fans post 2001 have very little perspective, they think winning rings is easy. It’s not, and one magic player isn’t why.

 

[oldrover]

The Pats went a decade without winning a ring despite having Tom at QB and BB at coach.

 

[Nehalem]

Many a thread and post have been made about our lack of success Post Brady. I find this distinction to be lacking as we are not only Post Brady, we are also Post Gronk, Edelman, Mason, McCourty, Chung, Thuney, Hightower, and James White. That is an immense talent drain to try and overcome in just a couple seasons and I feel distilling it down to "Post Brady" just doesn't highlight that nearly enough. I hereby declare we use Post BGEMMCTHW (that's pronounced bih-gem-chith-wuh) from here on out.

Gronk- last played in 2018
Edelman - last good year 2019
Mason - 2021
McCourty- 2022
Chung - last played 2019
Donte Hightower - Last good year 2019
James white - 2021

I dont know but really I expect players to be replaced after 4-5 year. I mean thats basically half of a good NFL career. If they haven't been replaced I think thats a GM problem.