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Post-AD,Burgess,Moss,Guyton, sent home from meeting Draft Thread

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by MrNathanDrake, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake In the Starting Line-Up

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    Anyone who has paid attention to my posts knows Ive been wanting an OLB even before this fiasco.

    Now AD and Burgess are most likely gone after this season, it makes OLB an even bigger target in FA and Draft. With that said, there are very few (if any) proven 3-4 OLBs in Free Agency. Merriman is one that alot of people are keeping an eye on but you can almost guarantee the Chargers will franchise him and keep him an extra year to see if he can recover fully and play at his old level.

    Guyton will be able to bounce back from this as he's still a youngster and made a dumb sophomore mistake. Moss is just being Moss. I think he's frustrated rather than having an ill will like AD or flat out apathy like Burgess. Those two are the true cancers on the team and horrible role models for the younger players. They must be replaced.

    With no one but TBC as a productive OLB, this makes it far and away our biggest draft need.


    Let's take a serious look at what OLB's have 1st-2nd round stock in this years draft...


    Sergio Kindle - Huge red flags. He can't rush the passer from the LOS. Hasn't produced well at all this year. Only average size for a 34 OLB. They tried putting him at DE to boost his draft status but it only hurt it. He's a 43 OLB as proven by his drop off this year as a DE.

    Jerry Hughes - The best pure pass rusher. Nice pass rush moves with a successful speed rush, spin move, and bull rush. High motor. Has the highest ceiling and most potential out of any DE in this draft. DeMarcus Ware-like potential but currently an unpolished product. Only average or below average tackling form. Questionable instincts and intelligence. Hasn't shown leadership... and judging on the recent turn of events this season, our D needs leadership more than anything else.

    Brandon Graham - My fav prospect. All around good player with good character. Leader with a non-stop motor who will fight the entire game no matter how bad his team was losing. Stout vs. the run but can also get to the QB. Good awareness to bat down passes. Destroyed high OT prospect Baluga when they faced off. Positive attitude. Not as much potential as Hughes, but more of a solid "sure thing" type of pick. Might not have the hips to be effective in coverage.

    George Selvie - Not the prospect he once was. Gets stone walled constantly now. I dont know if it was injuries that hurt him or if it's something else, but his stock dropped so much now he isnt even considered a first day pick anymore. Take him off your big board.

    Carlos Dunlap, Everson Griffen, Derrick Morgan, Corey Wooton, Greg Hardy - 4-3 DE's with boom or bust written all over them. Probably not fit for our scheme. Character concerns will almost all of them. Certainly not what we need at this point.

    Ricky Sapp - Tweener. Too skinny. Shawn Crable v.2

    Eric Norwood - Good prospect. After Graham and Hughes, the only other OLB I like right now. He lacks ideal size but he's a gamer. He plays OLB right now so he's already comfortable playing in space and dropping into coverage. Not as good a pass rusher as Graham and Hughes though. Most proven versatile OLB prospect as he's shown he can play both standing up or with his hand in the ground. Not as good at shedding blocks as Graham or Hughes. Would be a consolation prize if those two are gone by our pick. Good but not elite.




    If our targets are projected to be taken before our pick, do we trade up a few spots to grab them? I think at this point we NEED to. It's time to get big impact players on D instead of trading down to get stockpile picks.

    Share your thoughts on OLB's in this years draft and how the recent events may impact our day 1 picks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  2. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I ideal scenario right now:

    1. Pick up a veteran in FA or via trade. Shawne Merriman, Ray Edwards, and Mathias Kiwanuka are guys I would look at.

    2. Trade up to get ILB Rolando McClain if he is still on the board within 10 picks of where we draft. We need his leadership and intensity, as well as his skills.

    3. Hope Brandon Graham falls to our 1st pick on the 2nd round because of his lack of height and numbers compared to the "workout warriors". I think that we need someone with Graham's non-stop motor and drive. Hughes, Norwood or DE/OLB Jeremy Beal from Oklahoma would also be options. Possibly DE/OLB Greg Romeus from Pittsburgh, who has a non-stop motor and lots of upside. The other guys seem too risky to me right now - great physical attributes but too inconsistent.

    4. Build the OL after that.

    I agree with you about trading up if necessary to get certain players. We need guys who are high intensity non-stop personalities who are winners first, not just guys with physical skills. We need to rebuild the character of this team.
     
  3. wilfork is beastin'

    wilfork is beastin' On the Game Day Roster

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    i'd love to get Graham or Hughes with our first pick. Maybe get Selvie with one of the 2nd rounders. I like McClain a lot but OLB is a much bigger need than ILB.
     
  4. wilfork is beastin'

    wilfork is beastin' On the Game Day Roster

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    I also like Sean Weatherspoon a lot, but I'm not sure if he would fit in the 3-4
     
  5. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Good post, but I can't imagine BB drafting Norwood as an OLB. At barely 6 foot, he'd be in the ILB rotation. He's a good backup plan if McClain proves impossible to get.

    I like Guyton...but I'm not sure he's starting quality for a championship-caliber team.
     
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I completely agree. Norwood's my #2 SILB prospect behind McClain, but while I can see McClain justifying taking an SILB when we have other needs, I'm not sure that I can justify Norwood given our pass rushing and OL needs.

    I agree with you about Guyton. Great rotational guy. OK starter. Not sure he's championship caliber.
     
  7. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake In the Starting Line-Up

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    1. Merriman will be franchised. Kiwanuka and Edwards are inexperienced at 34OLB. If we're going to go through a "grooming" period at OLB, it mindaswell be through the draft. Look how Burgess turned out for example :eek: Just my opionion

    2. He could end up being a top 5-10 pick. Look at Aaron Curry last year. I dont think he'll fall anywhere lower than pick 11... around the same spot Patrick Willis and Mayo were drafted. I dont know what the fixation on McClain is. He's a thumper inside with good size. I'd rather pick up Larry Foote (FA) for ILB and veteran leadership and then draft an OLB. It's a huge, glaring need... and has been for numerous years now. How much longer do you want to put off drafting an OLB?

    3. I think he'll actually rise in the draft similar to how Ayers did last year. Right now Graham is a Top 20 prospect but could easily move up. Rumor is that he runs a 4.6 at 265lbs so if he does that at the combine teams will be all over him. Also has the luxury of both 43 and 34 teams looking at him. We'll be LUCKY to get him with our 1st, nevermind 2nd. I'll have to check out Romeus and Beal. Haven't heard too much about them.

    Selvie won't be a 2nd rounder IMO..... 4-5th rounder.. maybe even lower. He has honestly done nothing since his big year in 2007
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  8. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake In the Starting Line-Up

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    I agree with you guys about Guyton. Special Teamer/Back up. Overall awareness and instincts don't seem to be there. Maybe the reason we drafted Tyrone McKenzie last year.
     
  9. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Merriman almost certainly won't be franchised if he's a UFA, but he will probably be tendered as a RFA. As for veteran vs. rookie, I understand your point, but I suspect BB will be more comfortable with one veteran and one rookie than 2 rookies. Kiwanuka and Edwards may not be experienced at 3-4 OLB, but they are young guys who have the measurables BB likes and are proven pass rushers. Not saying it will happen, just that it could.

    I said that if McClain is on the board within 5-10 picks of where we draft that we should go after him. Obviously, if he goes top 5-10 he will be long gone. He could go as high as you suggest, but ILBs usually don't go that high. Curry wasn't viewed mainly as a 3-4 ILB prospect (though McClain can obviously play 4-3 SAM as well). As for the "fixation" with McClain, I like his leadership and intangibles tremendously, and think that they are just what this defense needs. I don't really want another aging vet like Larry Foote. JMHO.

    Brandon Graham could easily go top 20. He could also easily go in the 30-50 range. A lot will depend on how he measures out and how teams value his film vs. measurables. Carlos Dunlap, Everson Griffen, Jason Pierre-Paul and others are likely to put up more impressive numbers at the combine. LaMarr Woodley fell to the 45 range. Graham could too. I'm not sure that I like him better than Romeus or Beal, certainly not more than someone like McClain with our 1st round pick. But I think he could be great for us, and he's certainly on the short list.
     
  10. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake In the Starting Line-Up

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    1. Why WOULDN'T they franchise Merriman?

    2. Curry was viewed as an OLB that could play any LB position in any scheme. Larry Foote would be a decent pick up. He's won in big games before (SB w/ Steelers), good age for ILB at 29y/o, would bring experience and toughness to a defense that is immature and weak minded right now. The problem with our defense is that it's all young players. The problem with our defense a couple years ago was that is was all OLD players. We never had a good mix. And while staying mostly young, I'm pretty sure BB is going to add some more veterans this offseason.

    3. The same could also be said about Rolando McClain. Mauluaga was thought to be a top 10 pick last year and he slipped to the 2nd round last year. ILB's just aren't valued as highly as other positions, especially considering we already took an ILB in the top 10 with Mayo recently. I'm absolutely baffled how someone can watch our pathetic pass rush and OLB Free Agent busts like AD and Burgess...and STILL neglect the fact we desperately need to draft an OLB. Heck, we need two OLBs. Ray Edwards and Kiwanuka play on two of the best DLine's in the league and are both average players. With 3 pro bowlers on the same Dline, Edwards is only average. How good would he be without Jared Allen and the Williams? Giants and Minnesotas scraps are our answer at OLB? I dont think so.
     
  11. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake In the Starting Line-Up

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  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Because he might sign the tender and they would have to pay him. They have other major re-signings which need to be addressed, and he's not remotely worth the franchise tender. AJ Smith and Merriman have been at odds, and Merriman's had a lot of distracting issues. The Chargers were reportedly shopping him at the trading deadline.

    I agree about bringing in some veterans. I think BB will bring in a veteran pass rusher. I have nothing against Foote, but I don't particularly see him adding a lot to our D.

    Maualuga wasn't remotely considered a top 10 pick this time last year. He was overhyped by the media as a top 10 pick at the beginning of the year, but never really had the game to live up to that. McClain, like Aaron Curry, just keeps getting better.

    I'm not neglecting our pass rush. I've been calling for bolstering the pass rush long before you started posting on this board, and have been one of the most vocal people on this board about that issue. We clearly need pass rushers. But we also need to play with more intensity and get more out of the players we have. Cleveland sacked Rothlisberger 8 times last night, and I don't see what stud pass rushers they have. There's no reason we should be getting as little production out of Adalius Thomas and Derrick Burgess as we have gotten. We're just not playing very hard.

    This defense clearly needs pass rushers. But it needs an attitude adjustment even more.
     
  13. MrNathanDrake

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    Experience, positive attitude, winning attitude, leadership... Basically all the things you are thinking a rookie would give us. Rookies rarely become true leaders until a few years into their career. That's just the way it works in football.

    As for the problems in the locker room. They will be sorted out without McClain. Getting rid of Adalius Thomas and Burgess alone will do that.


    BTW McClain also describes himself as a "laid back guy" and clearly says he's NOT a vocal leader. Sure it's easy to be a leader-by-example when you're the best player on a team full of people the same age as you in College...Jerod Mayo was too. But what happens when that 22-23 year old kid walks into a locker room with guys 5-to-10+ years older than him who have been all around the league. Well just look at Mayo. It takes time for leadership and chemistry to develop.

    Trust me, we wouldnt be getting an instant Rey Lewis in McClain. We'd be getting another Mayo who plays with a bit more emotion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009

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