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Positional groupings: Grade 'em

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by borg, Oct 20, 2008.

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  1. borg

    borg Rookie

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    An outsider may view the Pats 3-2 record with some positives...until he/she realizes that the Pats wins are verses teams with a combined 6-13 record. More troubling is that their losses are against teams with a combined 5-8 record. The offense has been ineffective and the defense remains a mystery to me. So let's grade the groups.
    Offense:
    QB........C-....he is what he is
    RB........C......injuries are stacking up, but is Maroney's loss a loss? Faulk has had very few touches
    WR.....C+....Tough to grade. Cassel has had little time to throw and has been inaccurate at times. Our WRs are great, but the passing game is not.
    TE's......C-....8 catches this year. The OLine that they help block for has been mauled. Cassel's lack of experience, lack of time, lack of checkoffs all lead to near zero production.
    OL....D....Their play in the two losses are more ingrained in my mind than the wins. The defensive game plan has been ...charge the middle of the line and fluster Cassel, clog Maroney's lanes. The OLine has not been stout enough to repel the pressure. Watching Koppen getting mauled last week was scary.

    DL......C.....still waiting to see our first rounders make an impact this year
    OLB..... C-....This goup has had very little impact since the Jets game. No QB pressure what so ever. The 3-4 D is supposed to allow the LBs to scheme and be the playmakers. Still waiting
    ILB....C....Ronnie Brown says thank you. Mayo has had his moments. But all in all the entire LB corps has been lackluster
    S.......C......where were you guys last week. Covering Gates I guess
    CB......B/D......Hobbs good, O'Neal...not so much.
    The entire seconday has been left out to dry as far as I'm concerned. The front seven has been anemic in the pressure department, leaving our little DBs to fend for themselves.
    K....A-....If he had made that FG last week....A+
    P....I don't know
    ST.....B-.....Hobbs has shined, but coverage has had issues.

    Coaching....C.... some will say 3-2 is a good record, especially considering new QB and RB injuries. Not me. Whether it is personel issues or not, I see very little creativity both on O and D. Where are the Safety blitzes? Why are the WR cushions so large...year after year. The bend but don't break philosophy has been breaking with big plays being the norm these days.
    Management...BB/Pioli.....C......tough grade to give a group that gave us the 16-0 record. However, misfires in the draft are starting to have an impact. As our "project" QB continues to lead the troups, one can wonder if the picks for Chad Jackson, Marquis Hill (RIP), Spygate 1st rounder...could have been put to better use
    Team Grade.....C.... but trending south. Not much to be said for a team that has been dominated at times, and whose MVP is the FG Kicker. Unfortunately this season has 7-9 written all over it. Unless BB starts to take more chances on both sides of the ball, expect a frustrating final 11 games.
  2. PatsWickedPissah

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    Tough grades. I assume that your grades are 5 game performance based, not subjective assessments of 'talent'. In contrast, we ARE 3-2 despite the sudden loss of the NFL's MVP.

    I'd quibble that the TE grade is actually generous because of lack of blocking.

    You see the team & coaches as headed down; I see them as improving. Let's hope I see evidence of that opinion tonight.
  3. TheComeback

    TheComeback Rookie

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    Offense

    QB: C-. Cassel needs to improve his pocket awareness, reads, and accuracy for this team to make the playoffs.

    HB: C. It's hard to judge Maroney and Jordan based on so little evidence. Morris has done what he could with the offensive line's poor play. Faulk has been the best of the group.

    WR: B. The receievers are getting open, but Cassel is not getting the ball to them. They have done everything else they've been asked to do. The best group on offense.

    TE: D+. They've disappeared. Watson has been open on a couple of plays, but not enough. Their blocking has been subpar.

    OL: D-. They have played terribly this season. Some of that is Cassel's fault, but they have definitely gotten worse since last year.

    Defense

    DL: C+. Inconsistent. They've brought the pressure in several games, but looked hapless against the Chargers. They should be able to turn it around. Talent just doesn't disappear after one season.

    ILB: B-. Other than pass coverage, they have been stopping the run and tackling well. Mayo needs to get better and help shut down passes over the middle. Bruschi is too slow for that. Not sure about Guyton's pass coverage abilities.

    OLB: D+. I saw a lot of pressure on the 49ers, but what happened in the Chargers game? This group needs to improve along with the DL.

    CB: C+. Terrible against the Chargers, but decent in the other games.

    S: C+. As above. Meriweather seems to be performing the best here.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2008
  4. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why no mention of BM in the CB conversation? I'll come out with grades later as soon as these calls slow down (I work in a call center).
  5. Deus Irae

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    While I may agree or disagree with other areas of your grading, the following portion really stood out to me:

    "Why are the WR cushions so large... year after year" is soon followed up by "the 16-0 record". That's just a gaffe and a half.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2008
  6. JSn

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    That made me think about the argument that our D was over-rated because teams were forced to pass while playing from behind. Now they're choosing to pass so our D is found wanting? So does the D look bad just because they haven't gotten up to speed yet?

    This grading business seems a little unfounded.

    Like Grading the TE low: If Cassel finds Watson the 3-4 times he's been way open, he gets a way bigger grade. He's taking a hit because of Cassel, who is often cutting off his reads because of the O-Line.

    The team is an organism. Breaking down the groups within groups for grading is almost more of a typing exercise than anything, imo.

    We should be looking at the "chinks" in the armour and guessing how BB might be planning to fill them. Is Levoir the new RT? If Kaczur is back soon does he move to RG and improve the position? Things like that seem more likely to make good conversation.
  7. borg

    borg Rookie

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    16-0 had less to do with the defense than the high octane offense that averaged 35+ points per game last year. The 2007 defense was vanilla...keep the play in front of you, let the other team make a mistake or stall on downs. Without the offense this year, the vanilla defense is wretched. Do you remember the red zone stats of last years defense?The front seven is less talented than their draft order and salary would have you think. Peas has to give the cushion because QBs have all the time in the world. They are giving up the first down by preventing the big play. Sooner or later, the coaches will need to scheme in some risk and take some chances using S/CB blitzes.
  8. Deus Irae

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    The Patriots history under BB is pretty clear in this department, and your argument is simply wrong. That "vanilla" defense has been in place for a while now, in part due to the Polian inspired rules changes, and the team has continued to thrive.

    Having said that, however, one can reasonably look at the team's current personnel and wonder if playing with such a weak second corner position (O'Neal/Wheatley) while not forcing the issue more on first and second down, is the way for this team to go, given the limitations of the offense. In prior years, the battle of field position was important but, perhaps, not critical due to the greatness of Brady. Brady's ability to drive the team to a score from anywhere on the field meant that the team was more able to handle it when opponents moved the ball well between the 30's. This season, field position has taken on new importance.

    Your argument has already been dealt with by history, but the notion of a style less prone to 'bending' may have some validity as the team moves forward this season if Cassel doesn't improve or do it quickly enough. Unfortunately, the team may not have the personnel to play that sort of style at this stage of the season, as the replacement of Samuel has not gone smoothly to date.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2008
  9. ALP

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    until he/she realizes that the Pats wins are verses teams with a combined 6-13 record. More troubling is that their losses are against teams with a combined 5-8 record

    in that very statement u undermine ur own point
  10. fumbrunner

    fumbrunner Rookie

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    Where are your grades, Deus? I'm curious as to your assessment, since you do little else but ridicule those that say anything negative about the team's performance.
  11. Deus Irae

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    You need to read more often, given that I too have said negative things about the team's performance. Also, given how inconsistent I think this team's been from one player to the next, I don't think it's particularly smart or helpful to judge by group. Just to use the wide receivers for an example, Welker's been an "A" type player so far, while Moss has C-/D written all over him, and Gaffney would get an incomplete.
  12. KontradictioN

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    Has Gaffney even caught a pass this season?
  13. Deus Irae

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    10 for 90 yards and a touchdown. But, I give him an incomplete because he's the 3rd or 4th read for Cassel, and I don't think Cassel gets that far in his progressions as often as he should.
  14. fumbrunner

    fumbrunner Rookie

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    Interesting. Why would you grade Moss so low? He has a couple deep plays for touchdowns. There have been a few balls that have been underthrown on deep routes.
  15. borg

    borg Rookie

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    THRIVE!...are you on meds. This defense is horrible. Consider this one stat then explain why the 2nd corner is responsible. Zero touches on the SD QB. No sacks, no rushing of throws. Zero. And I 'm not sure how history has much relevence to this squad. The current defensive roster, particularly the front seven, is void of playmakers. You would think at least once during the game a LB or DL could win his individual matchup and pressure the QB. Maybe tonight.
  16. Deus Irae

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    Please don't take this personally, but I am not going to get into the Moss thing on this thread. I went into it on 2 or 3 other threads with people, but I don't want to hijack this one.

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/98/166700-27-0-a.html

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/166460-my-thoughts-following-game.html
  17. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Has reading become a lost art here? Posts like yours here make me think that the answer is yes.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2008
  18. borg

    borg Rookie

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    "and the team has continued to thrive"

    You said it, not me.
  19. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are you claiming that this team hasn't been thriving over the past few seasons? Reaching both he AFCCG and the Super Bowl isn't thriving? Since when?

    You should stop posting until you've had a thorough mental examination if you believe that AFCCG, Super Bowl and 16-0 isn't thriving in the NFL.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2008
  20. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Are you a two year old. Close your eyes and all the bad will go away. The original post was about this year's groupings. Keep hanging your hat on past accomplishments while others examine this year's team. This team is not thriving...or continuing to thrive. The Pats are a minus 20 in points for/against. That is awful, especially when considering the competition's record of 11-21.
  21. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Call me when "Why are the WR cushions so large...year after year." refers to just one year.....

    Again, that reading issue seems to be a problem for you. Might I make a suggestion?

    [​IMG]
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