Welcome to PatsFans.com

Pioli and the 3-4. Will he have the same problem as Mangini and the Jets?

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by Shockt327, Jan 17, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +16 / 1 / -2

    I may be wrong, but I'd assume Pioli would want to get rid of Herm and go after a HC or D-coordinator that he is on the same page with. Essentially, one that is familiar with the 3-4, since that is what Pioli is most familiar with in terms of scouting.

    Herm Edwards is a Tony Dungy disciple and runs a Tampa-2 Defense in KC, as he did with the New York Jets. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tampa-2 is almost the polar opposite of the 3-4 when it comes to the front 7. It's rare to see guys who could play well in both systems, no? In New York, the Jets witnessed a rocky transition from the Tampa-2 to the 3-4. In the process, a lot of talented players - like Vilma - had to leave. In addition, the Jets had to spend large sums of money to get guys to fit the system.

    Basically, what changes might have to be made to KCs front 7 if they want to adapt to the 3-4. Can a guy like Dorsey adapt to being a 34 NT? Is Scott going to have to scrap some good talent in order to make the switch?
     
  2. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    7,669
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    He will basically have to destroy the defense and start from scratch, which will screw his cap space by moving, cutting, and trading players.

    If Pioli tries to force a 3-4 from Tampa-2 personnel, he will likely fail.

    Mangini failed and used up future draft picks and tons of money trying to make the conversion, and still couldn't do it
     
  3. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +16 / 1 / -2

    So, essentially even a guy like Dorsey is toast if they switch to a 3-4.

    If they stick to a Tampa 2 then Pioli will be forced to scout for talent that he isn't used too. I imagine knowing what makes a good 3-4 DL, is totally different than knowing what makes a good Tampa 2 lineman. Basically, who knows if he is a good judge of talent for a Tampa 2.


    Anyone else beginning to think that settling on KC was a baffling move for Scott?
     
  4. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,643
    Likes Received:
    660
    Ratings:
    +1,866 / 6 / -6

    I posted the following in the main forum under the thread about Denver switching to a 3-4 defense:

    I'm a little surprised at the idea of Denver and KC switching to the 3-4. I understand that Pioli has mainly scouted 3-4 players, but his skill has been more finding players to fit a system than exclusively being a 3-4 guy. McDaniels comes from an offensive background, so it shouldn't matter to him. Mike Nolan has a 3-4 background, but I also believe some 4-3 mixed in as well.

    It seems to me that switching schemes when the personnel aren't well adapted to it is a potentially big mistake. The Jets are a good example of how hard the change can be. I understand that Denver has a lot of holes and that some of their recent picks (e.g., Jarvis Moss) might be adapted to a 3-4 switch, but others less so. DJ Williams is probably the best player currently on their front 7, and he is 6-1 242# - not really the site (or temperment) to play 3-4 OLB. They could try moving him back inside to 3-4 WILB, but they have already spent a lot of time moving him around from ILB to OLB, which can really mess a player up. Jamie Winborn is 5-11" 230#, and Wesley Woodyard, whom they converted from S to OLB last year, is 6' 230# - more the speedy kind of OLBs for a Cover 2 scheme than the big OLBs suited to take on blockers in a 3-4 scheme. Tim Crower at 6'4" 275# is too small for an effective 3-4 DE. I could see Moss moving to 3-4 OLB and DJ Williams moving back inside, but it seems like they would have to rebuild their whole defense from scratch.

    KC is even more perplexing to me. Glenn Dorsey at DT and Derrick Johnson at OLB are just not at all physically suited to the demands of a 3-4 defense. In addition, it is probably harder to find suitable 3-4 personnel at the DT, DE, and LB positions, and may take years to develop or convert, so it would seem to make a rebuilding job harder.

    Mike Tomlin took over the Pittsburgh job coming from a 4-3 DC background, and there was speculation about whether he would try to convert Pittsburgh to a 4-3 team. He wisely left Dick LeBeau and the defense alone, continuing to draft players such as Lamar Woodley who fit their existing scheme. I understand that KC and Denver are in much more of a rebuilding mode than Pittsburgh, but it still seems to me like this is not necessarily a recipe for success.


    So I would agree with you, it doesn't sound like a smart thing to do. If Pioli is so good at finding talent to fit a certain coaching system, then he should be able to go out and find talent which complements the assets which KC already has.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>