Welcome to PatsFans.com

Pats' last 3 freshman classes

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ivanvamp, Dec 31, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    The rookie poll got me thinking about the last 3 "freshman" classes (drafts and UDFAs) for the Pats.

    2010:
    McCourty (B+)
    Gronk (A+)
    Cunningham (C+, but improved his grade this year)
    Spikes (B+)
    Price (F)
    Hernandez (A-)
    Mesko (A-)
    Larsen (??)
    Welch (F)
    Deaderick (B-)
    Weston (F)
    Robinson (F)
    Fletcher
    Love

    2011:
    Solder (A)
    Dowling (D so far, but who knows)
    Vereen (B-, but with A- potential)
    Ridley (A-)
    Mallett (C...what do you expect, he was drafted to be a backup)
    Cannon (B-)
    Smith (F)
    Carter (F)
    Williams (D-)
    Silvestro
    Tarpinian

    2012:
    Jones (A)
    Hightower (A-)
    Wilson (C)
    Bequette (D)
    Ebner (C)
    Dennard (A)
    Ebert (B)
    Boldin (B)
    Forston (C)
    Francis (B-)
    Demps (INC)

    There are a TON of very good players the Pats have picked up through the draft or UDFA process the past three seasons. It's helped them rebuild the foundation for the next great Patriots' teams.

    EDIT: Yeah, Ebert is not a B. Whoops. Also, forgot to add Demps and Francis. Corrected above.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  2. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,335
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Love B/B+ imo and it looks like Francis is right there too.

    I don't know what holds Mesko back from being an A unless you are incorporating value/position into the draft pick grades

    otherwise i pretty much agree on everything, except Solder to me is closer to an A-/B+

    i think we can safely say that either it was Pioli's negative influence or the Pats just ran bad in the draft for a few years
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  3. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,168
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    #11 Jersey

    How has Ebert earned a B?
  4. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,243
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -1

    GRONK only gets an A+? :eek:
  5. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    3,601
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Forgot Jeff Demps and Justin Francis from this year's UDFA group. Francis looks like a player. If we can keep Demps healthy, he's a weapon. Was real good with Tebow at Florida. When Tebow left, not so much. We're building a helluva young team.
  6. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I didn't spend a lot of time dwelling on my "grades"...it was just off the top of my head. I probably confused him and Ebner in my mind.
  7. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Yep, very true. It's amazing to me that next year we should have this incredibly dynamic weapon in Demps available. And I agree on Francis...he looks like he can really help.
  8. JarOfMayo51

    JarOfMayo51 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I think you graded Vereen way too high at this point in time. He hasn't really done anything but get injured, and already has a key fumble in the 49ers game as well. He has a lot of potential, but he hasn't really produced all that much other than that 1 big play he had for a huge TD.
  9. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,303
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    BB>Pioli for drafting players.
  10. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,303
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Well, and pretty much every other avenue too.
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,315
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    This team has been rebuilt on the fly, and the Pats have not missed a beat... Kudos to BB and staff...

    Where are the naysayers who criticize this team and their draft(s)????

    At best the draft is a crapshoot...
  12. TFB*

    TFB* Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    500 yards from scrimmage is pretty darn good for a back who didnt get too many touches. A lot of teams dont even get this from a #2.

    We have 4 running backs who average over 4 YPC all who have more than 50 carries. Thats pretty unheard of.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  13. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,058
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    I don't have the figures in front of me but, I'd like to see a comparison of the production out of the top 4 RB's on NFL teams.

    I'll bet that the Pats have one of the top, if not the #1, production from their backs ( running game and passing game) of any other NFL team. :rocker:
  14. JMC00

    JMC00 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,765
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    Remember Felger's rant about drafting Gronk and Hernandez? Wish I could listen to that again.
  15. jsull87

    jsull87 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,535
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    McCourty B+? PB in his rookie year and 3rd year? Plays CB and FS at a very high level.
  16. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle tfw not enough helmets PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +15 / 2 / -4

    B+ is fine given his struggles last year.
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,234
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -3

    Fletcher deserves a grade perhaps a B-, contributed last year especially for a UDFA.
  18. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,243
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -1

    Yeah, all the Patriots did is turn the worst TE unit in the league into the best TE unit in NFL history. . . . in one year.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  19. wizwor

    wizwor Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    'cause he's made of glass :D
  20. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    5,751
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +16 / 1 / -0

    How would you rate the veteran FA signings?
  21. patrickscribe

    patrickscribe Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I have to think that Floyd Reese coming into the front office in early 2009 helped with player evaluation. He had a great track record with the Titans.

    Or is there a bigger factor?
  22. Armchair Quarterback

    Armchair Quarterback Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,543
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    The 4 drafts before these 3 were criticized for good reason. Calling it a crapshoot makes it sound like there's no skill involved and it's all the luck of the dice, it's more than that.
  23. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle tfw not enough helmets PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +15 / 2 / -4

    Unless you can see into someone's soul there's simply no way to tell if they will continue to apply themselves once they've gotten their first NFL contract. Or how they will respond to the Patriots culture and systems. You can try to find analogs in their experiences in life and HS/college football but there is still enough unknown that skill can't cover.

    If it was simply about skill the Patriots would have drafted Jennings instead of Jackson, MJD instead of Maroney, etc, etc.
  24. NormZauchin

    NormZauchin PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    What we don't know, and probably will never know, is what draft choices were favored by Bill, but were vetoed by Pioli. I had read that each had a veto, that the Pats wouldn't select a player that either had a problem with. We do know that the Pats' drafts have improved since Pioli left.
  25. Armchair Quarterback

    Armchair Quarterback Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,543
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Not sure what your point is on this one, that's exactly who they should have drafted. Calling the draft a crapshoot makes it sound like there's no skill involved and it's all luck of the draw. You project how well their physical skills, work ethic, desire for the game, etc. will translate to the NFL game. Looking into their soul is getting a little dramatic.
  26. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    So, the draft isn't a crapshoot after all. Great work Belichick! I would consider the position drafted in the ratings.

    DISAGREEMENTS
    Hernandez is clearly an A for a 4th rounder.
    Fletcher is at least a B-.
    Love is a solid B or even an A.
    Cannon is a B (a 5th rounder who can start!)
    Ebert is an F (didn't we cut him once)
    Doesn't Larsen start for another team? That would give him at least a B- as a pick.
    Wilson is a B- for me. He's started and played OK for a rookie.
    ======

    2010 was huge, with 10 contributors being drafted or picked up as an UDFA.

    2011 wasn't great. However, we did draft 2 starting OT's, our excellent starting running back
    and backup QB. We also could get future help from Vereen and/or Dowling.

    2012 is already great with 7 contributors (including Ebner on special teams and Wilson as a backup safety). We may get future help from Bequette, Demps and/or Forston.

  27. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle tfw not enough helmets PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +15 / 2 / -4

    My point is that it is a crapshoot. Just like in craps you can work the odds to be as in your favor as possible, but ultimately there's a random factor (the human equation) that can't be denied.

    We all like to talk **** about various GMs in the league, but even Tannenbaum or Millen have a better understanding of players and drafting than people on this board with probably only a few exceptions. They're only 'idiots' compared to other personnel guys who have better drafting criteria and draft day strategies.

    The terrible drafts we had in the latter half of the 2000s when our drafts the early half were fantastic is testament to this.
  28. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,735
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -1

    #50 Jersey

    Just minor qualms..

    How can you give Malcolm Williams a (D-) when he was a 7th rounder who has stuck with the team (albeit it the PS), though he's seen action in a few games on special teams. And when he's played on special teams, he's made plays.

    How can you rate Forston a (C)? He's done nothing but sit on the PS.
  29. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,058
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    Agree on Forston. Think it should be an INC until he makes the final roster. I believe he will and there were just others ahead of him that were a bit more seasoned. He'll probably make the healthy inactives next season and be emergency backup to a backup ala Francis this season. JMHO :D
  30. Patriot 37

    Patriot 37 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Too early to grade 2011 and 2012.

    I got no problem with your grades but if you are giving Fs for 7th rounders who don't make the team shouldn't 7th rounders and UDFAs who end up as solid starters like Love and Deadrick gets As ?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page