Patriots may have missed their guy at 72?

[convertedpatsfan]

Reiss's latest quick-hit thoughts and notes references Mike Lombardi's podcast earlier in the week about teams sometimes moving down to get a chance to regroup when they miss someone.

If not for Senior Bowl, Patriots might have shied away from top draft picks

The Patriots ended up trading down from No. 72, which could be a tip-off that their 50-to-75-player draft board took a direct hit or two in this area, and they wanted to regroup. That’s how former assistant to the coaching staff Michael Lombardi explained part of the team’s trade-down process last week on the “GM Street” podcast, which makes me think the Patriots might have had strong considerations for someone like Smoot, Elflein or Feeney.

For those who didn't listen, I'd highly recommend listening to this specific episode, lots of draft war room stories from Lombardi's time with the Raiders and Patriots including another tidbit about Jimmy G which is also covered in Reiss's piece.



He also talks about the Senior Bowl and it's impact on our draft. Overall, good article and podcast to check out for those who haven't.

 

[luuked]

Since Lombardi is referred to in this paragraph I think it is wise to mention that according to him BB usually has a group of players when looking at a position. Especially when the position is deep.

So it's probably a bit too dramatic to say "missed their guy". If they felt really strong about whoever it was they would have moved up to make sure they got him. Looks more like instead of 1a we got 1b or 1c.

The entire GM Street pre-draft episode is full of very interesting nuggets.

 

[maineman209]

Reiss's latest quick-hit thoughts and notes references Mike Lombardi's podcast earlier in the week about teams sometimes moving down to get a chance to regroup when they miss someone.

If not for Senior Bowl, Patriots might have shied away from top draft picks



For those who didn't listen, I'd highly recommend listening to this specific episode, lots of draft war room stories from Lombardi's time with the Raiders and Patriots including another tidbit about Jimmy G which is also covered in Reiss's piece.



He also talks about the Senior Bowl and it's impact on our draft. Overall, good article and podcast to check out for those who haven't.

In years past, the Shrine Game has also seems to have had a significant impact, especially wrt OL prospects.

 

[maineman209]

Reiss's latest quick-hit thoughts and notes references Mike Lombardi's podcast earlier in the week about teams sometimes moving down to get a chance to regroup when they miss someone.

If not for Senior Bowl, Patriots might have shied away from top draft picks



For those who didn't listen, I'd highly recommend listening to this specific episode, lots of draft war room stories from Lombardi's time with the Raiders and Patriots including another tidbit about Jimmy G which is also covered in Reiss's piece.



He also talks about the Senior Bowl and it's impact on our draft. Overall, good article and podcast to check out for those who haven't.

I think this has happened in past drafts.

There was a draft I remember from a few years ago, in which BB had a late-3rd rounder. There was an LB prospect who a fair consensus of fans felt that BB really coveted. Another team made a trade to jump five picks ahead of the Pats and selected that prospect. Before the echoes of the selection announcement had faded in MSG, BB suddenly traded down from his spot.

I think we've seen this most often with BB's first round picks. He'll hang onto his pick at the bottom of the round until the 20th selection or so, then trade down. It's as if the last prospect who he thought would be superior to whoever he could acquire in the 2nd had just gone off the board.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Since Lombardi is referred to in this paragraph I think it is wise to mention that according to him BB usually has a group of players when looking at a position. Especially when the position is deep.

So it's probably a bit too dramatic to say "missed their guy". If they felt really strong about whoever it was they would have moved up to make sure they got him. Looks more like instead of 1a we got 1b or 1c.

The entire GM Street pre-draft episode is full of very interesting nuggets.

Perhaps. Not every trade-down is related to missing a guy either. But Reiss talked about the picks preceding it, and how several may have been candidates for the team and there was a bit of a "run" on them, so it may be that they didn't get a chance to move up, though maybe the chance at getting another draft pick in a draft where we're lacking them mattered more.

Ultimately, we'll never truly know. But that podcast was very interesting in terms of stuff like this.

 

[stinkypete]

I think this has happened in past drafts.

There was a draft I remember from a few years ago, in which BB had a late-3rd rounder. There was an LB prospect who a fair consensus of fans felt that BB really coveted. Another team made a trade to jump five picks ahead of the Pats and selected that prospect. Before the echoes of the selection announcement had faded in MSG, BB suddenly traded down from his spot.

I think we've seen this most often with BB's first round picks. He'll hang onto his pick at the bottom of the round until the 20th selection or so, then trade down. It's as if the last prospect who he thought would be superior to whoever he could acquire in the 2nd had just gone off the board.

Stewart Bradley is the player you are referring to. A similar thing happened a few years ago with Mitch Morse.

 

[maineman209]

Stewart Bradley is the player you are referring to. A similar thing happened a few years ago with Mitch Morse.

Now that I've thought about it, I'm pretty sure that I'm remembering 2012. The player was Lavonte David, and it was the second round. BB had been sitting on the next to last pick in the round, and Tampa (Schiano?) traded into the #58 spot to scoop up David.

BB immediately traded all the way back to #90 at the end of the 3rd (with GBY), the pick that became Bequette.

 

[JMC00]

Or you can look at the teams they traded with and come to another conclusion..

Traded down with Tennessee (Jon Robinson)
Traded up with Detroit (Bob Quinn)

Possible those trades were worked out before 72 even came up.

Could have been a case there were multiple guys that the Pats liked who would still be there at 83 but huge question if they would be there at #96

Derek Rivers, Antonio Garcia, Tim Williams, Chris Wormley, Jordan Willis, Tarell Basham and Daeshon Hall were still on the board. So maybe they felt confident that at least 2 would be there at 83 and 85 but none would be still available at 96.

 

[luuked]

Or you can look at the teams they traded with and come to another conclusion..

Traded down with Tennessee (Jon Robinson)
Traded up with Detroit (Bob Quinn)

Possible those trades were worked out before 72 even came up.

Could have been a case there were multiple guys that the Pats liked who would still be there at 83 but huge question if they would be there at #96

Derek Rivers, Antonio Garcia, Tim Williams, Chris Wormley, Jordan Willis, Tarell Basham and Daeshon Hall were still on the board. So maybe they felt confident that at least 2 would be there at 83 and 85 but none would be still available at 96.

I think Loyko noted that the trade up to 85 was already done before they picked at 83. He got this from one of those short videos the Pats released on twitter as you can see the board in the background (blurred but their own picks are red).

 

[The Gr8est]

I think we've seen this most often with BB's first round picks. He'll hang onto his pick at the bottom of the round until the 20th selection or so, then trade down. It's as if the last prospect who he thought would be superior to whoever he could acquire in the 2nd had just gone off the board.

And the draft where the Pats got Malcom Brown is "Exhibit A".

BB had already worked out a tentative trade with Houston based on BB anticipating the Colts taking Brown, but did not pull the the trigger because Grigson happened and Brown ended up lasting to the Pats' pick.

 

[JMC00]

I think Loyko noted that the trade up to 85 was already done before they picked at 83. He got this from one of those short videos the Pats released on twitter as you can see the board in the background (blurred but their own picks are red).

Well then i'm even more convinced.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

And Exhibit B is the Gholston effect when a team grabs a player that they think the Patriots will draft or jump the Pats in the draft. In 2008 ( Pats were robbed of pick #31) when the Pats had pick #10 from new Orleans ( Mayo was ultimate pick) they were rumored to love Gholston ( with his career one sack) and the Jets pounced leaving the Pats with Mayo, their ultimate pick all along....

And as for immediate draft grades, PFF gave Jets super grades for their pick...
Pro Football Weekly in 2008: Jets "hit another one out of the park" with Vernon Gholston pick - Freezing Cold Takes
"Jets hit one out of the park".........

J-E-T-E......'nuf said.. (just end the embarrassment)

 

[maineman209]

Or you can look at the teams they traded with and come to another conclusion..

Traded down with Tennessee (Jon Robinson)
Traded up with Detroit (Bob Quinn)

Possible those trades were worked out before 72 even came up.

Could have been a case there were multiple guys that the Pats liked who would still be there at 83 but huge question if they would be there at #96

Derek Rivers, Antonio Garcia, Tim Williams, Chris Wormley, Jordan Willis, Tarell Basham and Daeshon Hall were still on the board. So maybe they felt confident that at least 2 would be there at 83 and 85 but none would be still available at 96.

A bit of both, possibly.

 

[maineman209]

And the draft where the Pats got Malcom Brown is "Exhibit A".

BB had already worked out a tentative trade with Houston based on BB anticipating the Colts taking Brown, but did not pull the the trigger because Grigson happened and Brown ended up lasting to the Pats' pick.

Grigson helped the Pats out in countless ways. I was sorry to see him go.

 

[maineman209]

And Exhibit B is the Gholston effect when a team grabs a player that they think the Patriots will draft or jump the Pats in the draft. In 2008 ( Pats were robbed of pick #31) when the Pats had pick #10 from new Orleans ( Mayo was ultimate pick) they were rumored to love Gholston ( with his career one sack) and the Jets pounced leaving the Pats with Mayo, their ultimate pick all along....

And as for immediate draft grades, PFF gave Jets super grades for their pick...
Pro Football Weekly in 2008: Jets "hit another one out of the park" with Vernon Gholston pick - Freezing Cold Takes
"Jets hit one out of the park".........

J-E-T-E......'nuf said.. (just end the embarrassment)

IIRC, the Pats had the #8 and trade down to #10, picking up a high 2nd in the process.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

IIRC, the Pats had the #8 and trade down to #10, picking up a high 2nd in the process.

2008 NFL Draft Pick Transactions

I had forgotten. Pats traded therir first rounder ( #28) in '07 to SF who draft Joe Staley for SF's 2008 1st round pick (#7) and 2007 4th rounder.
Pats then traded the #7 pick (IIRC after the Jets selected Gholston to NO along with a fifth rounder #164 Carl Nicks for the #10 pick (Mayo) and a third rounder, pick #78 that was used on Shawn Crable...

 

[manxman2601]

Could have been a case there were multiple guys that the Pats liked who would still be there at 83 but huge question if they would be there at #96

Derek Rivers, Antonio Garcia, Tim Williams, Chris Wormley, Jordan Willis, Tarell Basham and Daeshon Hall were still on the board. So maybe they felt confident that at least 2 would be there at 83 and 85 but none would be still available at 96.

This. I think it more likely that the Pats were targeting a pass rusher and, as you say, when they traded down, there were still four edge players on the board and that they felt one of them would still be there at 83.

 

[maineman209]

2008 NFL Draft Pick Transactions

I had forgotten. Pats traded therir first rounder ( #28) in '07 to SF who draft Joe Staley for SF's 2008 1st round pick (#7) and 2007 4th rounder.
Pats then traded the #7 pick (IIRC after the Jets selected Gholston to NO along with a fifth rounder #164 Carl Nicks for the #10 pick (Mayo) and a third rounder, pick #78 that was used on Shawn Crable...

Right.

That #28 in 2007 ended up giving the Pats Moss in 2007 (with the SF 4th), plus Mayo and Crable in 2008. Two outta three ain't bad.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Right.

That #28 in 2007 ended up giving the Pats Moss in 2007 (with the SF 4th), plus Mayo and Crable in 2008. Two outta three ain't bad.

And that folks is the difference between the Pats and many franchises with coaches who have to " win now".. They trade the future ( e.g. RG 3 trade, Bears trade for Trubisky etc) for now while the Pats trade for the future ( getting future draft picks) without sacrificing the present....

 

[mgteich]

This. I think it more likely that the Pats were targeting a pass rusher and, as you say, when they traded down, there were still four edge players on the board and that they felt one of them would still be there at 83.

and they wanted the pick to move up to get garcia