Pat Kirwin "If Gholston is not on the board by #7 the Patriots will trade down"

[The Great Fork]

I would say that if Gholston is off the board, than that deal would be a complete no-brainer.
Agreed all?

Stockpiling picks is a beautiful thing.

 

[BritPat]

I would say that if Gholston is off the board, than that deal would be a complete no-brainer.
Agreed all?

Gets my vote.

Take Groves, and maybe moved into the middle of the second round using both of our early 3's?

Maybe even package those with our second and swap them for say, the Packers first rounder and their 4th?

 

[BritPat]

Thanks for the welcome.

Agreed, watching a few of the LBs get abused last year was bad. My only thought is that when you lose as much of the secondary as the Pats did, how do you ignore it in round 1? If Gholston is as good as they think he is (and I'd never second guess Belichik and Pioli) then it's worth it, I would just hate to watch the Eagles scorch us in the passing game with AJ Touchy Feeley again because we can't cover a 5 yard-in route.

Well, we haven't drafted a first round corner in BB's time here, and I doubt that will change seeing how deep the draft class is this year. Don't forget where we drafted the players we lost this year; Asante was a 4th rounder, Eugene was a second rounder, and Randall was a UDFA. You don't always need first rounders to replace what you've lost.

 

[The Great Fork]

Well, we haven't drafted a first round corner in BB's time here, and I doubt that will change seeing how deep the draft class is this year. Don't forget where we drafted the players we lost this year; Asante was a 4th rounder, Eugene was a second rounder, and Randall was a UDFA. You don't always need first rounders to replace what you've lost.

True, and if anyone can make the system work, it's Bill. It's really too bad all that Spygate nonsense occured (what a load of BS that was), we'd have two picks in round 1 and this wouldn't even be a discussion.

 

[CrazyDave]

I'm kinda stingy about giving up a pick to move up, but the more I think about it, the more I want Gholston.
I don't want to hear no jazz about schemes and stuff. They took Adalius Thomas and put him inside. Gholston is big, strong, and fast. For all we know, he could be playing inside someday. Versatility. And we have a good bunch of LB's to tutor him right now.

If not, we trade out, grab 2 DB's and 2 LB's. And throw an OL in there.

Am I making any sense, or rambling?

 

[The Great Fork]

I'm kinda stingy about giving up a pick to move up, but the more I think about it, the more I want Gholston.

Who would you suggest instead of a pick?

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'm kinda stingy about giving up a pick to move up, but the more I think about it, the more I want Gholston.
I don't want to hear no jazz about schemes and stuff. They took Adalius Thomas and put him inside. Gholston is big, strong, and fast. For all we know, he could be playing inside someday. Versatility. And we have a good bunch of LB's to tutor him right now.

If the Pats draft Gholston, I'd say that Vrabel is probably a better candidate to move inside. He's done it before with pretty good success. AD did not look very good inside. He played better on the outside when Colvin went down.

If Gholston is not there at #7, I don't see that much of a dropoff between him and Groves. I'd move down a few spot and take Groves or the best CB available.

 

[CrazyDave]

Who would you suggest instead of a pick?

Picks wise, ideally, I'd like to do something for next year. A package involving our second round pick would be nice.
I'm feeling a little bit of urgency about getting a youth/speed injection on D.
I'd like to see it happen sooner, rather than later.
We don't get to pick this high in the round very often, it would be nice to grab a guy who could be a "Game Changer".
Any ideas on players we could dangle? Can we do that?

 

[jdk19]

If Ghoulston is there they take him. Thomas and Ghoulston and another pash rushing LB
will make the pats group of corners look pretty good.
(Tyrone Poole got the job done at one point) So did Randal Gay I believe in his rookie year.

I think they would rather trade down take Harvey or Cromartie.

A young Willie Mac is what they are looking for and it sounds like Harvey may fit the bill.
That would truly allow them to switch from 3-4 to 4-3 on the fly.

I would also not rule out Mendenhall with a trade down. I think this may be the surprize pick. Remember Logan Mankins, Ben Watson etc. If they trade down they believe there is better value in #s in this draft that at the top.
If they traded down they would be paying Medenhall about going rate for a top back.
Pick up a 2nd and surprize us again by picking Caldwell.


I just think the CB debth is actually the real bright spot in this draft and the Pats can find guys with their 2 3rd round picks.

 

[The Great Fork]

Picks wise, ideally, I'd like to do something for next year. A package involving our second round pick would be nice.
I'm feeling a little bit of urgency about getting a youth/speed injection on D.
I'd like to see it happen sooner, rather than later.
We don't get to pick this high in the round very often, it would be nice to grab a guy who could be a "Game Changer".
Any ideas on players we could dangle? Can we do that?

Thinking about it, I don't see how you could dangle anyone. It just doesn't seem like anyone that would be enough to trade up would be worth it.

But on the other hand, like you say, there is a bit of urgency with the whole defense, I think. So you don't want to give up picks, so I guess the question is...is Gholston the ANSWER and worth sacrificing a couple of picks and maybe losing some depth, or is it better to move down, get some more picks, and get youth all over the place.

 

[Seneschal2]

If the Pats draft Gholston, I'd say that Vrabel is probably a better candidate to move inside.

So you really think a rookie is going to step in and start from the get-go?

 

[The Great Fork]

So you really think a rookie is going to step in and start from the get-go?

Is that really that impossible? Not to mention if they add Gholston they have a nice core that they can rotate in and out, so Gholston doesn't necessarily have to start for Vrabel to move back inside.

 

[DocE]

I've personally been wondering if there is any player in the draft the Patriots would be willing to spend the no.7 pick (and the corresponding money on). I think there is chance they would take Jake Long, Chris Long, or Vernon Gholston if they were at 7, but I am not entirely sold on the Pats being willing to spend that money when so many on the team take less to play for them. Giving 14-17 million in bonuses to a rookie seems like something the Patriots would be very hesitant to do.

I think Gholston makes the most sense for the Pats since he could play (probably not start) right away. In addition to the offensive line breakdowns in the Super Bowl, the Patriots also had a very hard time getting off the field on 3rd downs. If Gholston was in New England and rushing the passer on 3rd and 5 or longer, I don't think we'd see as many 3rd down conversions by the opposition. If they were going to take a guy at no.7, it would be a guy who could come in and help the pass rush immediately, and Gholston appears to have the ability to do that. That said, I also think Groves has the potential to come in and provide that pass rush immediately.

I think there is a good chance that Gholston goes top 4 now, with either St Louis or Oakland taking him. I see Jake Long going in the top 5 with Kansas City at no.5 hoping that Atlanta and St Louis pass.

Here's my one scenario for Gholston getting to no.7, and I admit it's a long shot:

1. Miami- Chris Long
2. St Louis-Jake Long
3. Atlanta- Matt Ryan
4. Oakland- Glen Dorsey
5. Kansas City- Ryan Clady or Jeff Otah
6. New York Jets- Darren Mcfadden
7. New England- Vernon Gholston

The first 3 are possible, buy 4-6 is a stretch. Oakland would have to decide that they wanted to play Tommy Kelly outside which would make DT (not DE) their primary need on defense. Kansas City would have to reach for an OT at no.5 after being unable to trade down. Finally, the Jets would have to pass on Gholston in favor of Mcfadden. I think they might do that after giving Calvin Pace a big contract at OLB and having Bryan Thomas at the other OLB spot.

 

[The Great Fork]

In addition to the offensive line breakdowns in the Super Bowl,

That is one thing that drove me nuts. Our line was great all year, but suddenly they were destroyed by the Giants D-Line. I definitely wouldn't be upset if they went with an OT in the first round.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Is that really that impossible? Not to mention if they add Gholston they have a nice core that they can rotate in and out, so Gholston doesn't necessarily have to start for Vrabel to move back inside.

As I've pointed out before, I'd rather have Thomas on the inside than Vrabel, if for no other reason than playing inside takes a pretty big toll on Vrabel (if he stays outside, I could see him playing for another 4 or 5 years; if he moves inside, I'd cut a year or two off that projection).

 

[ALP]

I've personally been wondering if there is any player in the draft the Patriots would be willing to spend the no.7 pick (and the corresponding money on). I think there is chance they would take Jake Long, Chris Long, or Vernon Gholston if they were at 7, but I am not entirely sold on the Pats being willing to spend that money when so many on the team take less to play for them. Giving 14-17 million in bonuses to a rookie seems like something the Patriots would be very hesitant to do.

I think Gholston makes the most sense for the Pats since he could play (probably not start) right away. In addition to the offensive line breakdowns in the Super Bowl, the Patriots also had a very hard time getting off the field on 3rd downs. If Gholston was in New England and rushing the passer on 3rd and 5 or longer, I don't think we'd see as many 3rd down conversions by the opposition. If they were going to take a guy at no.7, it would be a guy who could come in and help the pass rush immediately, and Gholston appears to have the ability to do that. That said, I also think Groves has the potential to come in and provide that pass rush immediately.

I think there is a good chance that Gholston goes top 4 now, with either St Louis or Oakland taking him. I see Jake Long going in the top 5 with Kansas City at no.5 hoping that Atlanta and St Louis pass.

Here's my one scenario for Gholston getting to no.7, and I admit it's a long shot:

1. Miami- Chris Long
2. St Louis-Jake Long
3. Atlanta- Matt Ryan
4. Oakland- Glen Dorsey
5. Kansas City- Ryan Clady or Jeff Otah
6. New York Jets- Darren Mcfadden
7. New England- Vernon Gholston

The first 3 are possible, buy 4-6 is a stretch. Oakland would have to decide that they wanted to play Tommy Kelly outside which would make DT (not DE) their primary need on defense. Kansas City would have to reach for an OT at no.5 after being unable to trade down. Finally, the Jets would have to pass on Gholston in favor of Mcfadden. I think they might do that after giving Calvin Pace a big contract at OLB and having Bryan Thomas at the other OLB spot.

i was of the assumption that the raiders play a 4-3, which requires two dt's

 

[The Great Fork]

As I've pointed out before, I'd rather have Thomas on the inside than Vrabel, if for no other reason than playing inside takes a pretty big toll on Vrabel (if he stays outside, I could see him playing for another 4 or 5 years; if he moves inside, I'd cut a year or two off that projection).

I can see that being true. Do you think Vrabel is more effective outside than Thomas is, though?

 

[Seneschal2]

Is that really that impossible? Not to mention if they add Gholston they have a nice core that they can rotate in and out, so Gholston doesn't necessarily have to start for Vrabel to move back inside.

Not impossible -- just difficult to step in and start from the beginning of the season -- especially at any LB position.

Best chance for any drafted rookie to make an impact in the Pats D is:

- Sign and show up on time

- Remain healthy throughout TC and pre-season (to avoid missing valuable reps)

- Impress in weekly practice (if you don't prove it there -- you won't see any game action)

Barring an injury to any starter, that's the recipe for most rookies to receive in-game reps as part of the Pats situational/rotational defense.

 

[Ring 6]

No way we draft Gholston. He will have a very tough transition to 3-4 OLB, and will never be effective as a 34 OLB in a 2gap system.

 

[NePatriots]

I disagree, he may be situational (pass rush) for part of his first year, but I think in year 2 he will be a 3 down OLB from day 1.