OT- What will Goodell do? Colin Kaepernick sits during national anthem

[ViperGTS]

The other side has its own data that supports its own arguments, too. There is a history of racial bias in police brutality, it's clearly observable, and citing all the unrelated statistics re: interracial violence in the world won't change that. It's a universal truth that violence tends to be interracial rather than intraracial, so claiming that this somehow "ends the discussion" when it's also true re: black Americans is incorrect at best and disingenuous at worst. The claim that you're making with the facts you've chosen to cite is both undisputed and not particularly related to the point of contention in the first place.

And FWIW I'm not saying it from that side. I'm still not totally sure where I fall on this. I think the more extreme elements have dug in and written their respective versions of the truth on both sides, neither are entirely correct, and neither seems intent on figuring out a real solution. Luckily there are some people operating in good faith closer to the middle, and hopefully those people will take the lead more as time passes.

If we lived in 1963 then your first part would be wholly correct. No way to deny it. It's 2016. Just because some SSF welfare state babies want to return us to that point in time, doesn't mean we need to. I follow the brutality of the police today and trust me, it's bad for all. No matter race or color. It's an equal opportunity matter. Now, unfotunatley none of this (non minority) make the news. A majority of it is people playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes. Others are legit straight up murders in my opinion. No matter the race.

I'm pretty far in the middle, however I can't stand those who try to make arguments using bad information or examples. If he wanted to say (Kap), "I can't respect a country that allows thousands of Chicagoans to be murdered and do nothing to stop it" then I'd be in more agreement.

 

[meatface]

If we lived in 1963 then your first part would be wholly correct. No way to deny it. It's 2016. Just because some SSF welfare state babies want to return us to that point in time, doesn't mean we need to. I follow the brutality of the police today and trust me, it's bad for all. No matter race or color. It's an equal opportunity matter. Now, unfotunatley none of this (non minority) make the news. A majority of it is people playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes. Others are legit straight up murders in my opinion. No matter the race.

I'm pretty far in the middle, however I can't stand those who try to make arguments using bad information or examples. If he wanted to say (Kap), "I can't respect a country that allows thousands of Chicagoans to be murdered and do nothing to stop it" then I'd be in more agreement.

you should try writing things more coherently, this doesnt make any sense; Kap cant complain about Police brutality because white people get killed too and something something chicago? why do people keep trying to act like police targeting of minorities isnt a thing, we all know it is, its just that some people want to think its for a good reason because otherwise they might have to question things more than they are comfortable with.

 

[mikey m]

As a direct descendant of his father and uncles who served in WWII, of a Great Uncle who died in WWI and of a Great-Grandfather who fought for the Union at the Bloody Angle on Cemetery Ridge at Gettysburg during Pickett's Charge, I respectfully disagree with you.

It is my belief that all of them made those sacrifices so a person with whom I profoundly disagree can indeed "throw a football for a living" rather than be thrown "out of the country" or dragged off to a Gulag or secret prison for "re-education."

Exactly the reason why taking 2 minutes to show respect and appreciation for that shouldn't be too much to ask. Do that, play the game you love for millions of dollars, and once that is done then utilize the platform and resources this country has afforded you to contribute to the change you desire to see. Nobody would be criticizing him if he did this, but I think we all know that Kaepernick doesn't really give a damn about anybody but himself so I won't be holding my breadth for that to happen.

 

[meatface]

Exactly the reason why taking 2 minutes to show respect and appreciation for that shouldn't be too much to ask. Do that, play the game you love for millions of dollars, and once that is done then utilize the platform and resources this country has afforded you to contribute to the change you desire to see. Nobody would be criticizing him if he did this, but I think we all know that Kaepernick doesn't really give a damn about anybody but himself so I won't be holding my breadth for that to happen.

thats one way of looking at it, you can also look at it that this has gotten much more attention by him not standing than it would have if he had just spoken to the media about it. It could be for selfish reasons but you dont know that, its not like the issue he brought up isnt real. And why does him making a lot of money factor in at all? Would it make the issue more relevant if he made the league minimum or for free?

 

[ViperGTS]

you should try writing things more coherently, this doesnt make any sense; Kap cant complain about Police brutality because white people get killed too and something something chicago? why do people keep trying to act like police targeting of minorities isnt a thing, we all know it is, its just that some people want to think its for a good reason because otherwise they might have to question things more than they are comfortable with.

If what I wrote is incoherent, then I really don't know what to say. Police brutality knows no race or color today. That's the truth that if understood, would give the SSF's nothing to do with their welfare time. We can't have that happen now can we? For instance, I know full well that if I blink wrong at a cop, I expect that to be the last thing I do.

Did you hear about the unarmed white guy, murdered by the cops here in an AZ hotel? The audio is pretty damning. The big bad cops killed him anyway. I bet you didn't here about that one huh? No protests. No riots.

I bring up Chicago because the brutality and bloodletting going on their is the real story. Unfortunately it doesn't fit their and, apparently your, idea of what the reality is. It's much easier to take the easy road.

So go ahead because if it's not comprehensible which says more about your state of mind than it does mine.

 

[mikey m]

thats one way of looking at it, you can also look at it that this has gotten much more attention by him not standing than it would have if he had just spoken to the media about it. It could be for selfish reasons but you dont know that, its not like the issue he brought up isnt real. And why does him making a lot of money factor in at all? Would it make the issue more relevant if he made the league minimum or for free?

What he did has, predictably, done nothing but contribute to the huge divide in this country.

The amount of money he makes is very relevant as he has the resources at his disposal to contribute to the cause(s) of his choosing in a variety of ways, preferably not just "talking" to the media but taking real, tangible action as well.

He is either selfish (as I suspect) or is flat out stupid for thinking that, with the incredible amount of money he makes, sitting down during the anthem was the most effective thing he could to end the oppression of black people in America.

Also, he can thank the muthafukn US of A for all that money and the cushy life he lives here.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Come at me @QuantumMechanic.

I think Kap is a total attention-whore douche and I don't like what he's doing.

But I also think you "everyone must believe what I believe, or else" people are not to be thought well of and anti-what-makes-this-country-great.

Members of the military take an oath to "protect, defend, and uphold" the US Constitution. Are you claiming they're all lying or crossing their fingers when they take that oath? Or does your copy of the Constitution have some extra clause at the end of the first amendment along the lines of "doesn't apply to people I don't think 'respect' authority enough"?

I think one of my high school classmates (who has served overseas and has spent over 20 years in the military) said it well:

I am a Soldier. I will always stand and render proper honors to our nation when the National Anthem is being played.

Having said that, the proper response to San Francisco 49ers Quarterback Colin Kapernick is to ignore him.

Forced patriotism is *not* patriotism. If you have to force someone to show respect, are they really showing respect, or are they just showing compliance? And if the difference between the two doesn't matter to you, then it's you who are being unAmerican, not Mr. Kapernick.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If we lived in 1963 then your first part would be wholly correct. No way to deny it. It's 2016. Just because some SSF welfare state babies want to return us to that point in time, doesn't mean we need to. I follow the brutality of the police today and trust me, it's bad for all. No matter race or color. It's an equal opportunity matter. Now, unfotunatley none of this (non minority) make the news. A majority of it is people playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes. Others are legit straight up murders in my opinion. No matter the race.

I'm pretty far in the middle, however I can't stand those who try to make arguments using bad information or examples. If he wanted to say (Kap), "I can't respect a country that allows thousands of Chicagoans to be murdered and do nothing to stop it" then I'd be in more agreement.

You are correct to note that police brutality is not a problem that's solely dealt with by black people. I would even agree that police brutality against other races is a major issue in its own right that has largely gone unreported, and that's its own problem that points to a broader problem in police-civilian relations. If your post is in part about frustration that police brutality against non-black Americans seems to be disregarded, then I think that's fair.

But black people are disproportionately targeted compared to any other race, and by a pretty significant margin. This remains true even after accounting for frequency of police interaction, crime rates, etc. Here's the most comprehensive study done to date on the topic.:

http://policingequity.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/CPE_SoJ_Race-Arrests-UoF_2016-07-08-1130.pdf

 

[BradyFTW!]

Exactly the reason why taking 2 minutes to show respect and appreciation for that shouldn't be too much to ask. Do that, play the game you love for millions of dollars, and once that is done then utilize the platform and resources this country has afforded you to contribute to the change you desire to see. Nobody would be criticizing him if he did this, but I think we all know that Kaepernick doesn't really give a damn about anybody but himself so I won't be holding my breadth for that to happen.

I don't see how you or anyone else here could reasonably know that. Do you know him personally?

 

[mikey m]

I don't see how you or anyone else here could reasonably know that. Do you know him personally?

My follow up post just a few after the one you quoted explains my stance there.

 

[BradyFTW!]

My follow up post just a few after the one you quoted explains my stance there.

So in essence you think "we all know that Kaepernick doesn't really give a damn about anybody but himself" because he sat down for the national anthem rather than putting all his money toward activist causes (which, if he did that, I suspect you'd claim he's stupid.

Well, okay then. Do I even have to point out that, by that standard, virtually everybody on the planet doesn't really gave a damn about themselves, and therefore that claim becomes completely meaningless?

 

[Tony2046]

No question on TH food and the service. The egg sandwiches are excellent. Plus the chili hot bowls are pretty good.

The coffee.....I dunna know. It just tastes burnt to me. I've been traveling on biz to Canada for 20+ years and I just can't get past it. I've tried. I'll drink 99.9% of the coffee out there. I'll only get it if I have no alternative

With that said DD is average coffee. It's comfort coffee. So used to it.

After years of working together and making D&D coffee runs my buddy and I both ended up working in China for a few years and went through D&D withdrawal.

During one of our D&D withdrawal conversations we came to the conclusion that it wasn't just the coffee that was special rather it was the magical combination of the coffee and the Styrofoam cup.

I came back to the U.S. a couple of years before him and used to tease him with, " hold on man... let me take sip of my perfectly brewed cup of D&D coffee. "

I ended up sending him a box of D&D coffee complete with a bunch of cups, lids and sugar packets. He acted like a junkie who had finally got his fix.

Good times.

That said if I was given the choice I would buy a cup coffee from D&D's, get a combo soup and sandwich from Tim's and sit and watch the yahoos spending double for their grande mocha chocha latte 's.

 

[mikey m]

So in essence you think "we all know that Kaepernick doesn't really give a damn about anybody but himself" because he sat down for the national anthem rather than putting all his money toward activist causes (which, if he did that, I suspect you'd claim he's stupid.

Well, okay then. Do I even have to point out that, by that standard, virtually everybody on the planet doesn't really gave a damn about themselves, and therefore that claim becomes completely meaningless?

Either your reading comprehension is trash or your bias in this case blinds you. I recognize you as a long-time poster here and I'm sure I've enjoyed plenty of previous posts of yours so I'm guessing its the latter. So, I'll go all the way with this. My belief is that anyone with half a brain would have known beforehand that sitting through the anthem wouldn't accomplish jack **** for the standing of african-americans in this country. Rather, it would just deepen the divide between the sides of these issues and do more harm than good, if anything at all. We need to find ways and messages that bring people together rather than separate us.

Now Kaepernick's statement is that he will continue to sit through the anthem until change happens? Is he actually fukn serious? Change has been happening, albeit slowly, since the sixties and earlier. It's not perfect and never will be (due to the flaws in people - discussion for another time) but it's a work in progress you fukn clown (ranting at c.k., not you bradyftw). How about you literally get off your ass and be the change you want to see and show appreciation to the country and to those that have sacrificed to allow you to contribute to the cause and have an impact on these issues.

Because this clearly would not actually benefit anybody, I believe this was simply a selfish act to grab his final 15 minutes of fame. The alternative is that he is stupid and vain enough to believe that recent current events in this country weren't enough to draw attention to the issues of race, discrimination, and police brutality, but Colin Fuking Kaepernick sitting on the sideline of a football game would do the trick. And that doing so would actually help anyone. And yes if he actually felt strongly about these issues and had a desire to help people, then he would use some of the vast resources he has to do something about it. And then he could stand up during the national anthem and show some appreciation for being allowed to do it rather than being beheaded for his beliefs and actions.

 

[Wordsmyth]

I find it notably hypocritical how a kid abandoned by his black parents--and raised by an all-white family--has taken up the saber against "whitey" and joined BLM. I suspect it has something to do with this attractive Muslim female DJ in the SF area who has entranced him, thereby making him a convenient meat-puppet for these aforementioned groups and movements. If he were Joe Blow, middle-wage earner who'd personally been persecuted by the po-po, then I might give his stance some credence. Instead, he comes off as an insufferable man-child of privilege (much like our beloved Golfer-in-Chief) as he pontificates upon matters that have never personally impacted him. smh

 

[AtomicDawg]

Sigh. This still isn't in the PoFo yet?

 

[Drewwho]

It's perfectly ok to live in a country where your free, employed, have clean drinking water, food available to you in every corner grocery or general store. Perfectly ok to have TV shows a plenty, movies at your disposal, internet access everywhere, parks, roadways in which to travel to and from, planes available for you, as a free man, to fly in/out of that same country. A country that is not perfect by any means but is still the greatest in the world! I don't understand the message. I don't - it's hard to wrap my head around it. What's his message? Sitting through the national anthem somehow is an act of courage on his part...? The entire point is that we have that flag and that anthem through years of courage. Sitting through it just feeds the the divide between us it doesn't unite anyone or anything.

That's the irony here- the very symbol of the national anthem is 'we are united'. It's very messed up and sad to me that anyone who is privileged to be an American and live in this country, uses this one rare moment we share mostly at a sporting event, as a message. What message!?!

What people neglect to understand is that there is racial divide in every country across this planet.

 

[Tony2046]

This logic has always annoyed me, why is that if someone points out something is wrong in this country people say they should leave? Someone who really cares about this country points out its problems and tries to change them, nobody wins by just getting angry at anyone who brings them up.

Kappydink did not bring attention to this issue. It has been rightfully plastered all over the media for the last few years.

All he did was further the division and jump on a train that was already rolling along. He may have slowed it down a little.

He didn't start nor add to the conversation.

Basically said, "I won't respect the flag until the flag respects me".

What a freaking hero.

"I don't want to be a part of the team unless we're winning the game. "

 

[Froob]

I agree and it is not the sitting that puts him at risk but the comments made while representing the 49rs and NFL. I do believe he sees the end and pulled this. Puts the 49rs and NFL in a bad spot.

I'm really hoping the uproar causes Goodell to do something and it turns BLM against him basically forcing him to get fired.

 

[Fixit]

Sigh. This still isn't in the PoFo yet?

OMG, this. Despite my own track record and the copious silliness on display, I finally had the good sense to punch out early, and this is the thread that doesn't get moved?

 

[Bombdog]

Im a veteran and fought for the rights of people to be free and express themselves. Do I like or condone what he is doing. No I don't. But it is his right to express himself. Eventually what will come out is he a simpleton and just trying to say look at me. He will be out of the NFL in less then 2 years because he can't play and is not a team player.