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OT: Jim Irsay calls Peyton a politician


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So you believe an athlete should still cash in on 28 million dollars even though they didn't play one snap?

I understand worker's comp, but 28 million dollars? A true team player right there.

If Payton really gave a crap about the Colts he'd take a cut, a re-structured contract, allow the Colts to pay for his injury and medical expenses and free up the money so his franchise could move forward.

Isray's primary job is to worry about his team. Not Peyton.

And Peytons primary job is to worry about Peyton.
 
So you believe an athlete should still cash in on 28 million dollars even though they didn't play one snap?

I understand worker's comp, but 28 million dollars? A true team player right there.

If Payton really gave a crap about the Colts he'd take a cut, a re-structured contract, allow the Colts to pay for his injury and medical expenses and free up the money so his franchise could move forward.

Isray's primary job is to worry about his team. Not Peyton.

I believe that Peyton is entitled to whatever the contract that he signed promised him. The Colts knew that he was injured when they signed him to it, and they knew that this was a distinct possibility. They signed him to it anyways, and there was no gun to their head. If they don't want to pay Peyton $28M, then they already have an out in releasing him.

They can either pay him (and keep him) or not pay him (and release him). Sounds reasonable to me, and once again, those are the terms that they already agreed to less than a year ago.

Strangely enough, I don't recall Brady giving back his 2008 salary either. When a guy gets hurt in service to his team, it's hypocritical, to say the least, for the team to act like the player somehow owes them something for daring to be injured. Especially when they sign him to the contract in question after the fact.
 
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Isray's primary job is to worry about his team. Not Peyton.

Irsay signed the contract.
Irsay is blowing up the organization.
Irsay is tweeting like a schoolgirl,
Irsay is not talking to Peyton.

Me?
I say Irsay is stoned, eh?.

Hope it heats up in Indy.
Eli pestered with questions. by a hungover press crew
anxious for anything to write about.
The general themes are already played out.

Van Pelt is on it now on ESPN radio.
 
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So you believe an athlete should still cash in on 28 million dollars even though they didn't play one snap?
I didn't give a single opinion about what I think Manning should or shouldn't do in my post, did I? I only gave my opinion about what I think is causing the rift we're seeing (and make no mistake, depite today's lame denial by Irsay and Manning, there is clearly a rift).
I understand worker's comp, but 28 million dollars? A true team player right there.

If Payton really gave a crap about the Colts he'd take a cut, a re-structured contract, allow the Colts to pay for his injury and medical expenses and free up the money so his franchise could move forward.
It's pretty easy to get up on your high horse and dictate what people should and shouldn't do when it isn't you or your money being discussed, huh?

Unless he decides he has to retire because of his injury, Manning is in a no-lose situation here. Either he gets $28 million in March or he becomes a UFA. It's easy to sit in judgement of him on some football forum but I bet 99% of people in here, if they were truly faced with this situation, wouldn't walk away from that $28 million. We'd take the same "pay me or cut me" path Manning seems to be taking.
 
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Bird in Boston
Orr in Boston
Bledsoe/Brady in Boston

The celtics already had a dynasty before Bird. They won 11 championships :eek:

The cavaliers were terrible in their entire history. Cleveland as a city is one of the worst sports cities ever when it comes to winning if not THE worst. The Saints were known for wearing bags over their heads. Never won anything. I'm sorry to the Canadian fellow but when you throw in the CFL. I rest my case.

The pats are a tough one because they had a history of losing but the city wasn't a perennial loser like the others. Bledsoe/Kraft/Brady/BB deserve honorable mention tho.

The Bruins and Orr, I admit I am not versed enough to really give a concrete answer. Were the bruins winning before Orr came to town? If not than you still have the C's who were a dynasty already by that point.
 
I believe that Peyton is entitled to whatever the contract that he signed promised him. The Colts knew that he was injured when they signed him to it, and they knew that this was a distinct possibility. They signed him to it anyways, and there was no gun to their head. If they don't want to pay Peyton $28M, then they already have an out in releasing him.

They can either pay him (and keep him) or not pay him (and release him). Sounds reasonable to me, and once again, those are the terms that they already agreed to less than a year ago.

Strangely enough, I don't recall Brady giving back his 2008 salary either. When a guy gets hurt in service to his team, it's hypocritical, to say the least, for the team to act like the player somehow owes them something for daring to be injured. Especially when they sign him to the contract in question after the fact.

Couldn't agree with this post more.
 
I didn't give a single opinion about what I think Manning should or shouldn't do in my post, did I? I only gave my opinion about what I think is causing the rift we're seeing (and make no mistake, depite today's lame denial by Irsay and Manning, there is clearly a rift).
It's pretty easy to get up on your high horse and dictate what people should and shouldn't do when it isn't you or your money being discussed, huh?

Unless he decides he has to retire because of his injury, Manning is in a no-lose situation here. Either he gets $28 million in March or he becomes a UFA. It's easy to sit in judgement of him on some football forum but I bet 99% of people in here, if they were truly faced with this situation, wouldn't walk away from that $28 million. We'd take the same "pay me or cut me" path Manning seems to be taking.

Well I guess I'm in the 1% because I don't know how I would personally feel taking 28 million dollars just the same as if I would have played for them. I would want something to cover my injuries and a little extra, but if I really wanted to stay in Indianapolis like Peyton says he wants to, I would take a cut.

You should see what Arian Foster said in the ESPN interview about his upcoming contract with the Texans. Jacobs, Giants RB, he also took a paycut to stay with the Giants, even though he was healthy. They needed cap room and he understood.

Not all players are like that. My thing is if you're going to judge Isray, then why not Peyton? Don't the other 53 players on the roster need money? Don't the fans need a good football team?

Not to mention the fact that Peyton has plenty of other avenues to make money so if he really wanted to be a Colt, I'm sure that could be arranged. If not, and you wanna keep the money, then Isray is right...stop acting like a politician and doing sob story interviews with newspapers. No reason to try to paint Isray as a bad dude for doing something he's boxed in to have to do.
 
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Well I guess I'm in the 1% because I don't know how I would personally feel taking 28 million dollars just the same as if I would have played for them. I would want something to cover my injuries and a little extra, but if I really wanted to stay in Indianapolis like Peyton says he wants to, I would take a cut.

...

I guess you're not in the 1% =)

Personally, in Peyton's scenario, how on earth do you walk away from 28 mil? I wouldn't.
 
Well I guess I'm in the 1% because I don't know how I would personally feel taking 28 million dollars just the same as if I would have played for them. I would want something to cover my injuries and a little extra, but if I really wanted to stay in Indianapolis like Peyton says he wants to, I would take a cut.

You should see what Arian Foster said in the ESPN interview about his upcoming contract with the Texans. Jacobs, Giants RB, he also took a paycut to stay with the Giants, even though he was healthy. They needed cap room and he understood.

Not all players are like that. My thing is if you're going to judge Isray, then why not Peyton? Don't the other 53 players on the roster need money? Don't the fans need a good football team?

Not to mention the fact that Peyton has plenty of other avenues to make money so if he really wanted to be a Colt, I'm sure that could be arranged. If not, and you wanna keep the money, then Isray is right...stop acting like a politician and doing sob story interviews with newspapers. No reason to try to paint Isray as a bad dude for doing something he's boxed in to have to do.

Irsay built the box. In 2004 he wildly overpaid Manning raising the bar on QB deal by more than $4M in average value and nearly doubling the amount of bonus money. Then rather than work out an incremental deal (as all of Tom's have been even after he'd won 3 rings in the process) he kept blathering about how he wanted to make Peyton the highest paid player in the league (I think because that somehow fluffed his own Colts ego). You reap what you sow.

Manning did actually give Irsay a break this time around with an AAV deal equal to Brady's. And had they done it as a straight deal rather than option based, Irsay would be on the hook for too much bonus money to even cut Manning this season. He essentially gave Irsay a year to conclude whether he could still play at a level that warranted the investment, and the cap space to acquire additional talent (which they didn't) but the caveat was if he didn't think so then Manning was free to go wherever he wanted to if he could in fact still play at that level.

The existence of Luck and the way the season unfolded changed the landscape that existed when they did the deal. Tweets to the contrary, Irsay has moved on and Manning knows it. Irsay doesn't want him back any more than he wanted another Polian as his GM because he's already seen how the story ends. He's intent on writing a new story since the opportunity to has presented itself. I think Manning would prefer Irsay be honest about that or at least (Please be quiet - edited) about his situation in public. He remains in limbo while Jimmy is staging a palace coup complete with twitter feed like some exiled royal who just wrested control of his kingdom back from the evil generals - who brought Indiana a Lombardi... Irsay has replaced Manning as the face of the franchise. And he intends to replace him as the QB of the franchise in April. And he doesn't want to face any heat for making those decisions.

Manning isn't Favre, and he doesn't want to be cast into that role. He's never ****ed around with them. Other than hiring Condon as his agent, and Polian and Irsay were down with whatever Condon came up with as long as it kept Manning wearing that horseshoe. He's always given them 110%, on and off the field. And he elevated the play of those around him. Peyton intended to play his entire career in Indy. Just signed a 5 year deal to insure that would be the case. If he's not worth that deal to Irsay anymore it's because of injuries he sustained over the last 2-3 seasons in Irsay's employ converging with the opportunity to draft the flavor of the month replacement at a fraction of the cost. That's his choice, but if Manning can still play he wants to and compensated as a franchise player. Irsay has even gone so far as playing the best interest of the player card for cover, and that rightfully pisses Peyton off. Because that decision is his alone and not Irsay's to hide behind. We faced a similar uncharted situation with Tedy and played it the right way.

That said, as a Patsfan I love seeing rivals implode in a big pile of ego. Pittsburgh is up next with Rooney canning Arians - whom they brought in to let Ben be Ben after Cowher and Wisenhut departed - and Ben now wanting a sit down explanation and exchange of ideas as to what direction that organization is going...from the guy who actually thought about canning Ben's ass a year ago.

Then we have the whole debaucle in the swamp.

Meanwhile we're heading back to the show for the 5th time in 11 seasons. And some here wonder why others trust Bill or are reluctant to criticize him. Bill will never let the tail wag the dog, let alone in public. And Brady has set the tone for players here buying all in. In the end that is why this team generally responds positively to all manner of adversity, unlike so many others, and rebounds when it hasn't to contend again. Maybe IBBWT is why.
 
My point is if Peyton takes the money, then he needs to stop acting like Isray is a bad dude and trying to make him look like one for doing the only thing that he can possibly do while he still gets to cash in on 28 million without really playing. Both men are smearing each other, but I don't think Isray was doing anything wrong in keeping quiet and not filling Peyton in on the X's and O's.

It's disrespectful to your GM and your coach and everyone else if you go talk about decisions such as those to your QB who is on IR, before you discuss them with his superiors and he may still be trying to decide what's going on.

"Hey Peyton I'm thinking about cutting you and firing the GM, and coach...thought I'd let you know first!"

He knows damn well he could stay on board if he'd take 5-10 million which is still far too much for what appears to be a quarterback that may just never play another down of football. I don't think this is like the Bret Farve deal at all because I'm not really convinced that Peyton can ever play again.

And I also know it wasn't Isray that started this mess. It was the Mannings. And his father. I remember very well when Archie said his son and Luck would not be starting on the same team and deserve to start on different teams before Isray ever mentioned a word about Luck or draft. That was all part of the same game.

Frankly I don't care. The way I look at it, a quarterback doesn't make or break your team. The rest of your players and coaches do. There have been many teams that have made it further without "elite" quarterbacks, this year's Houston Texans being one of them.

And when you look at what ultimately matters in the NFL, Super Bowls, I'd say Peyton was overpaid compared to a guy like Ben, and apparently even his little brother. He got everything he wanted more than any other quarterback, and maybe, just maybe, that's a terrible freaking idea to start off with!
 
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My point is if Peyton takes the money, then he needs to stop acting like Isray is a bad dude and trying to make him look like one for doing the only thing that he can possibly do while he still gets to cash in on 28 million without really playing. Both men are smearing each other, but I don't think Isray was doing anything wrong in keeping quiet and not filling Peyton in on the X's and O's.

It's disrespectful to your GM and your coach and everyone else if you go talk about decisions such as those to your QB who is on IR, before you discuss them with his superiors and he may still be trying to decide what's going on.

"Hey Peyton I'm thinking about cutting you and firing the GM, and coach...thought I'd let you know first!"

He knows damn well he could stay on board if he'd take 5-10 million which is still far too much for what appears to be a quarterback that may just never play another down of football. I don't think this is like the Bret Farve deal at all because I'm not really convinced that Peyton can ever play again.

And I also know it wasn't Isray that started this mess. It was the Mannings. And his father. I remember very well when Archie said his son and Luck would not be starting on the same team and deserve to start on different teams before Isray ever mentioned a word about Luck or draft. That was all part of the same game.

Frankly I don't care. The way I look at it, a quarterback doesn't make or break your team. The rest of your players and coaches do. There have been many teams that have made it further without "elite" quarterbacks, this year's Houston Texans being one of them.

And when you look at what ultimately matters in the NFL, Super Bowls, I'd say Peyton was overpaid compared to a guy like Ben, and apparently even his little brother. He got everything he wanted more than any other quarterback, and maybe, just maybe, that's a terrible freaking idea to start off with!

You dont appear to even grasp the issues. Peyton can't take the money unless Irsay opts to pay it to him. He did last fall knowing Manning might not play because he determined the reward (cap flexibility while retaining the asset) outweighted the risk (that he would not make it back all season). So they are even. If he opts to pay him for next season whether or not he can play, that too will be on him. Irsay's other option is to let Manning walk, and if he does that they will be even. What Irsay is clearly hoping happens is Manning retires so it won't come down to his choice. He is the one attempting to make it about the rightness of the choices because he already made a questionable one and he doesn't want anyone opining he is making another. The Colts didn't have to sign a new deal with Manning and then not even bother with a physical because they knew the score - they just chose to roll the dice that he'd be back in a month or two. Had he simply remained under the tag at $23M they'd have saved $3.5M and had no dead cap remaining for 2012. Just another choice whether to tag him for $28M (same deal as the option) prior to the start of the new league year. They decided the deal was preferable because it would allow them to lower both the 2011 and 2012 cap hits at the expense of some dead cap and sunk cost. That's they way they rolled for the last 13 years.

Then 2-14 happened. And it both underscored Manning's value to that team over the last 13 seasons and delivered an alternative to playing out the situation. Irsay started tweeting about that pick, if not by name, and his intention to use it on a QB midway through the season as a way to deflect criticism of the finally widespread realization of the situation he had allowed to develop and exist over the last several years. The total reliance on Manning and a handful of players on a top heavy roster to essentially carry a team that couldn't win it's way out of a paper bag in his absence. He began pandering to the peanut gallery in an effort to retain their support for himself as the face of the laundry, the horseshoe as he calls it... He set about to paint himself as the savior of the horseshoe who was going to right the now sinking ship that Polian and Manning had apparently both torpedoed and kept afloat just long enough to land a new stadium and two trips to the Super Bowl and a Lombardi on their watch. Because those things now in hand people would forget he was the same guy who chose that approach rather than lose the team altogether based on years of incompetent management at his and his father's hand.

Manning, Polian and Irsay are each equal parts hero and villian in the Colt's legacy. Irsay is just trying to spin the focus away from his share in any villiancy and attempting to paint the last man standing as the real hero. I don't blame either of the other two for feeling abused in the process. Polian did more to deserve the abuse than Manning did, though. Manning made them pay a premium for his service to the horseshoe, but he also earned it and carried the other two and a largely 2-14 team and organization they'd assembled absent him around him on his back for 13 seasons, the majority of which were double digit division winning and playoff contending seasons.

Feelings are almost always going to be hurt in this business end of the game. Irsay is just rubbing salt in wounds with his penchant for pandering to the peanut gallery. But that is who he is as an owner and an individual, someone constantly craving validation and admiration because he was his father's son and he can't tolerate ever being perceived as that guy whose kid was even mortified to be associated with. He has to be flaky and fascinating Jimmy Irsay, good steward of the horseshoe and nothing like his reviled old man. Everyone is fighting for their perceived place in Colts history... So far it's just a fist fight, but they're all packing knives and maybe more if push comes to shove... If Luck and the new regime flounder, Irsay will eventually get tactically nuked. If Manning doesn't retire and finishes his career on a winning note somewhere else simultaneously, football in Indianapolis will undergo nuclear winter.
 
I think everybody is missing the bigger issue and Isray is right and this is my view of it, point blank.

Peyton's likely going to retire. Nothing from him screams to me "I wanna play and am going to be able to play football". He wants to drag it out, get paid 28 million, then retire. Isray wants Peyton to go ahead and retire, since he's going to do it anyway, and not try to squeeze another 28 million out of the franchise, remain on IR, and then retire anyway.

That's it. That's what all of this screams to be if you read between the lines. Petyon wants a retirement bonus. Isray doesn't want to give him one.
 
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