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OT: How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the Hall of Fame?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by RayClay, Sep 19, 2007.

  1. RayClay

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    Just reading about the NFLPA and league trying to do something about a real issue which no one cares about, helping former players get decent health care.

    Ditka or somebody mentioned hall of famer Gale Sayer and I'm thinking, "he was injured, how did he get the stats for the HOF?

    Answer: He didn't. Chicago media and having somebody on his team die with a tear jerking movie about him was enough.

    Sayers didn't die. He had knee injuries like many running backs. Became the CEO of a computer company (probably should have gone into public relations based on this fraud).

    Funny thing is, I saw Sayers. He was wonderful to watch and a huge talent, but like many (200 lbs.) lighter running backs, it seems he didn't have the durability.

    Did he have a Hall of fame career? Not even close. He didn't have half a HOF career.

    Two (2) thousand yard seasons, 4956 total yards. That's it!

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/SayeGa00.htm

    Dillon and Curtis Martin get in twice each by these standards, not to mention the unexceptional Tiki Barber.

    Sorry Chitown, this guy plays in Detroit or someplace with no movie and he's just a local warm memory and trivia question.

    The line to whack RayClay starts here, but I am right.
  2. patriot lifer

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    from http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=188

    Gale Eugene Sayers. . .Kansas All-America. . .Exceptional break-away runner. . .Scored rookie record 22 TDs, 132 points, 1965. . .Led NFL rushers, 1966, 1969. . .Named all-time NFL halfback, 1969. . . All-NFL five straight years. . .Player of Game in three Pro Bowls. . .Career totals: 9,435 combined net yards, 4,956 yards rushing, 336 points. . . NFL lifetime kickoff return leader. . .Born May 30, 1943, in Wichita, Kansas

    i guess we'll have to take the writers' words for it.
  3. RayClay

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Word for what? I saw Gale Sayers when he played. I don't dispute he was a outstanding runner and great to watch.

    Are you saying because the writer used the word "excrutiating" when describing his knee injury that it was different than knee injuries other promising running backs have suffered?

    By the way, you truncated a stat. He was the NFL kickoff return leader when he retired, he retired a long time ago.

    The actual quote "At the time of his retirement he was the NFL's all-time leader in kickoff returns"
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  4. FloridaHerb

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Maybe so, but that movie was so sad.....:(

    Thanks, now I've got that crappy song in my head! :mad:
  5. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Probably because he was the best running back the game had ever seen.

    You're right. He didn't do it over a long career. But there may be a place in Canton for the guy who is the answer to this question: If you had to choose a RB for one game, jut one game, who would it be?

    Gale Sayers
    .....
    .....
    .....
    .....
    Then Jim Brown, Earl Campbell, OJ Simpson, Eric Dickerson.

    I'd say that Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton are a little bit below these top 5.
  6. DarrylS

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Would take Jim Brown any day, big, mean, fast, strictly north south and hit like a mule... he was the greatest RB of all time, no one else is close.. he quit at his prime to pursue other things...
  7. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    He plays in Detroit, he gets taken out in redzone situations. :)

    I have no problem with Sayers in the Hall. Sometimes I think we get obsessed with career totals and end up rewarding guys who were merely good but stuck around for ever. I'll take greatness, even if it was over all too soon.
  8. RayClay

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Sorry, I'm not choosing a 198 lb. running back for one game no matter how pretty he runs.

    The answer to that question is Jim Brown easily and I'd go with Earl and OJ before Sayers also.

    By the way, he didn't do it over a short career either.

    Here's Jim Brown's stats. Please pull out any 3,4 or 5 year period where Sayers was the greater running back.

    I assume you're judgment is solely based on watching both of them run, but remember, I did also.
  9. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Yes, I saw them both. But sayers had a total effect on the game. He was what Reggie Bush was supposed to be but isn't. Kind of a Randy Moss effect. I'd certainly take Brown over the course of a season, but I think Sayers was electrifying for one game the way Randy Moss is.
  10. RayClay

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    You make an excellent point and Sayers was an outstanding (though light, I'm sorry but light running backs don't last long in the NFL) running back and great to watch.

    What does that do to standards though?

    Sayers, pretty runner, CEO, wonderful guy nice movie=hall.

    Dillon: snarling, nasty, tough plays with the bones in his leg coming apart (2005) and hops through games on one leg.=no hall. The press doesn't like him.

    Robert Edwards. Looked good, horrible injury. Excrutiating pain, torturous recovery (adjectives courtesy of NFL hall of fame article on Sayers). If he looked as good as Sayers could we project him to the Hall?
  11. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    I googled top running backs and saw that most users severely overrate Barry Sanders and Marcus Allen (top 3) while completely missing on Earl Campbell.

    Jim Brown was at the top of most lists with Payton. I was surprised to see that so many remembered how good Dickerson was. But Earl Campbell is completely forgotten.
  12. RayClay

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Sayers was exceptional and worth the price of admission to watch. No argument.

    Unfortunately, light running backs often can't endure in the NFL. Bottom line, you either have standards or you don't. Do we project every good looking athlete would have more than doubled their output had they been healthy?

    Do we add to that a bonus for well spoken, obviously intelligent (CEO of a computer company) players that we like?

    Would have, could have, should have. We're on a slippery slope when we veer so far from objectivity into prediction and favoritism.
  13. RayClay

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    When it comes to what wins NFL (as opposed to college) games Earl is second only to Brown. He made you stack the middle to the detriment of your pass defense, then could still plow through.
  14. Maroney TD

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    I met him once... he was a surly guy... maybe I just caught him on a bad day though...
  16. RayClay

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    If you watched Earl your only thought would be "that was only one guy".

    He would routinely drag 3 or 4 LB types for 4-5 yards. Play after play.

    By the way, Sayers was a special player. that has nothing to do with my thread it's more about fairness.

    Enjoy:

    http://www.twincitiesminnesotablog.com/2006/09/gale_sayers_vid.html
  17. jimmyjames

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Don't you think that the fact that he was so electrifying warrants his induction?
    You have to remember that when Sayers was playing the NFL was not the league it is today. Basball was America's pastime and people got their footabll fix from the college game. It was through watching players like Sayers and Joe Namath on TV that brought the league popularity.

    Maybe their stats don't hold up to the modern standards, but these guys are the foundation of the modern league and for that they deserve to be in the Hall.
  18. Deus Irae

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Barry Sanders made defensive players miss. Earl Campbell made defensive players wish they had missed.
  19. RayClay

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    No. His stats are not even exceptional in his time, for 2-3 seasons.

    Do I think an outstanding player with the bare minimum stats should be chosen over a consistent but ordinary player?

    Yes. The Luis Tiant-Don Sutton comparison is relevant.

    2 thousand yard seasons, less than 5,000 total rushing yards. Double those totals and maybe he gets in along with players who have hundreds more.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  20. RayClay

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Or found another line of work.:D
  21. upstater1

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  22. Patsfanin Philly

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    http://www.hickoksports.com/history/hbsayers.shtml

    Thee above link answers your question. On a cold day in his rookie year, Sayers made his reputation. In a game in which he had 14 touches, he had 6 Touchdowns, the last on a ridiculous punt return in which most of the other team missed tackles.
  23. Wotan_the_Wanderer

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    I personally prefer the big, bruising power backs, but in all fairness, the above strikes me as an overstatement. Obviously, three 200lb smurfs who've succeeded in the league and who've won are Walter Payton, Tony Dorsett and Marcus Allen. And if we are to consider Campbell a winner, then the smurf Thurman Thomas needs to also be considered a winner and introduced into the list of winning RBs. But again, no way in hell would I take the helmetless one to Campbell if I'm building a team. This, however, is a personal, subjective preference toward a certain type of runner and a certain brand of football and I'm not so sure there really is an objective formula as to which style of runner or which brand of football is more conducive to winning in the NFL.

    Now, Sayers was way before my time and I regret that I never got a chance to see him play. But I know many people who have lived through that era as football fans and invariably, Jim Brown and Gale Sayers are two names that come up time and time again when an argument on the greatest RB is instigated. This in turn tells me that Sayers, despite the short career and relatively weak career stats he put up, played the game in such a manner that he either changed the game to a certain extent or at the very least left an indelible, lasting impression on the fans. I can't imagine a RB today single-handedly scoring 36 points as did Sayers. And as important as total career stats are when reflecting on a certain player's career, I think it's nearly important to reflect on a certain player's impact on the game itself or a certain era in which he played. Thus, I've no problem with the mercurial Sayers having been enshrined. But you're right. I am somewhat biased because I've seen Brian's Song.

    Lastly, I hope you get around to posting, if you've not done so already, why Lee Roy Selmon or Howie Long are in the Hall over Andre Tippett.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  24. texpat

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  25. Wotan_the_Wanderer

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    ^Yeah, and my favorite Bo Jackson memory: out running a Seahawks defense then bowling over the biggest fraud pro football has ever seen in Brian Bosworth.
  26. kriskanos

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    The Hall of Fame is a joke. Case in point there is a QB in the hall with these stats Career Stats
    TD-INT 173-220
    Yards 27,663
    QB Rating 65.5
    Plus he wore panty hose
  27. RayClay

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    When you throw in less talented guys like Csonka, John Riggins and Bettis, I don't think it's an overstatement.

    Marcus Allen was 6'2" 210, so I wouldn't call him a smurf.

    Dorsett and Payton certainly stood up to the beating and were great backs. I'll still take a guy who can hurt you inside and out.

    I'd take Dillon in his prime (we didn't see nearly his prime yet he's our all time season rushing record holder) over either of them.

    Before you laugh, let me put Corey in our fantasy time machine on the Dallas or Chicago teams and let Dorsett or Payton toil in misery in Cincinnati
  28. RayClay

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Point well taken, although I probably would have voted for him. TD/ int ratio was bad but percentages weren't for the time.

    They had Boozer and Snell accounting for 10-12 TDs a year too.

    They didn't dump off short like they do now.

    No doubt his stats don't hold up but despite two bad knees he did throw for a lot of yards and yards per game.

    I agree you're right just on stats. I would say it's arguable.

    I can't say the same for Sayers. Projecting he would have more than doubled his rushing totals seems a stretch to me.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  29. QuiGon

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    Not to mention the complete lack of pure kickers and/or punters in there. I agree it's a joke.
  30. RayClay

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    Re: OT How the hell did Gale Sayers get into the hall of fame?

    All hall of fames are a joke for this and other reasons. Still, you hope the bad decisions are the exception, not the rule.

    Speaking of which, did you know there is a Boston/New england Patriot on the All AFL team (only a first team) in the Pro Football Hall of fame?:D

    And he wasn't even nominated for the Patriots hall??

    Houston Antwine, best DL in Patriots history up to the present squad.

    2008 Patriot Hall of fame!!:rocker:

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