OT: Cowboys top draft pick Dez Bryant already causing stir

[Kontradiction]

There is no determinant,

Sure there is. The discussion here is whether or not Williams being a douche about it was a possibility. The determinant of that is whether or not Bryant does it for somebody else. If he does, the possibility that Williams was being an ass goes through the roof. That's the only thing that could determine it being that Bryant probably isn't going to out Williams to the media.

you're reading into things without any facts,

The only facts that we have is that Bryant said he didn't do it. He didn't give any specific reasons why other than stating that he came to the Cowboys to help them win. That leaves the situation open to interpretation. The first could be that he's just a prima donna whose ego is unchecked. The second is that he thought Williams was being an ass about it. In this case, inferring that Bryant is an egomaniac over the situation is just as much speculation as me inferring that Williams was probably being an ass to Bryant.

and you're not even making sense at this point, because production is about as irrelevant as anything can be on this subject.

How is production irrelevant? Let me remind you of what you said...

2.) "Rookies" don't get to choose who's pads they carry. "Rookies" who think they do end up getting crushed in practices and usually don't last long on the team.

Sorry, but I don't see Jerry Jones saying a year from now, "Sorry, Dez. While we appreciate the 1,000 yard season and those touchdowns, we're going to have to let you go. That hazing incident in training camp was just too much for us".

 

[jsull87]

I think everyone's missing the point here with their argument on whether hazing should or shouldn't go on in the NFL.

The point is you have every rookie doing this it's a tradition and all players go through it... and Dez thinks that he is special and doesn't have to do it. You can argue the merits of hazing all you want, but all this says is he has a terrible attitude to being part of a team.

One of his team mates asked him to do a task that every one in the team goes through and Dez said no... It screams of him thinking he is above things that other members of the team have to go through.

 

[jsull87]

And you don't have any idea if it wasn't. The determinant of this would have been whether or not Bryant didn't do the same thing for Romo or Austin or Ware. If he didn't or doesn't, Williams most likely wasn't being a douche about it. If he was, we'll see Bryant carrying the pads and/or getting his eyebrows shaved and/or anything else that comes with the territory. However, given Williams' history and the fact that they're both competing for the same job, I'd be more willing to bet on the fact that Williams was being a douche than I would be to bet that he wasn't.

No we do know... in his interview he said he is here to play football not to carry peoples pads around.

I have been reading the last few pages and i don't get what your argument is. So what if Williams was being a douche you suck it up because ur a rookie and that's what happens to everyone.

I can just imagine everyone's reaction on this board if mayo did this to Teddy B.

 

[ausbacker]

I think everyone's missing the point here with their argument on whether hazing should or shouldn't go on in the NFL.

The point is you have every rookie doing this it's a tradition and all players go through it... and Dez thinks that he is special and doesn't have to do it. You can argue the merits of hazing all you want, but all this says is he has a terrible attitude to being part of a team.

One of his team mates asked him to do a task that every one in the team goes through and Dez said no... It screams of him thinking he is above things that other members of the team have to go through.

That's exactly what comes across.

 

[Joker]

imagine this azzole pulling this crap on a Rugby Union or Rugby League team, Aus?

can't wait until he mouths off about Witten getting too many throws...you KNOW that's coming...

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I think the hazing thing is juvenile and more made for college athletes than professionals and should not be a part of a rookies first season but for a guy who has yet to play a down in a regular season game,he is biting at the bit way too soon and needs to be shot down with authority from Jerry Jones.

 

[Kontradiction]

No we do know... in his interview he said he is here to play football not to carry peoples pads around.

He didn't exactly elaborate on why though. It's very possible that Williams was an arse about it.

I have been reading the last few pages and i don't get what your argument is. So what if Williams was being a douche you suck it up because ur a rookie and that's what happens to everyone.

That's the point. I wouldn't have given him the pleasure of doing it if he had done it in a snide manner. I would have told him to "go to hell" too.

I can just imagine everyone's reaction on this board if mayo did this to Teddy B.

Bad comparison. Bruschi was a legend here. Williams is anything but in Dallas. He cost the team a ton and has yet to produce for them on anything approaching a consistent level to date. In fact, if Williams HAD produced, Bryant wouldn't even be in there to refuse to carry his pads.

 

[Koma]

I think everyone's missing the point here with their argument on whether hazing should or shouldn't go on in the NFL.

The point is you have every rookie doing this it's a tradition and all players go through it... and Dez thinks that he is special and doesn't have to do it. You can argue the merits of hazing all you want, but all this says is he has a terrible attitude to being part of a team.

One of his team mates asked him to do a task that every one in the team goes through and Dez said no... It screams of him thinking he is above things that other members of the team have to go through.

Good point. Bryant isn't taking a stand against hazing. He has no problem with an UDFA carrying shoulder pads for a veteran, but high profile 1st round picks (namely, him) should be exempt. Not exactly the best way to fit in at his new job.

With that said, this is a minor story. If Bryant has a Randy Moss-like rookie season, no one is going to remember that he refused to participate in some benign hazing tradition in training camp. Of course, at the 2011 training camp, Bryant better not expect anyone to carry his shoulder pads.

 

[jsull87]

Bad comparison. Bruschi was a legend here. Williams is anything but in Dallas. He cost the team a ton and has yet to produce for them on anything approaching a consistent level to date. In fact, if Williams HAD produced, Bryant wouldn't even be in there to refuse to carry his pads.

No it is not a bad comparison. Your missing the point. It shouldn't matter if the player is a legend or is the 4th receiver. It's about being part of the team and a tradition not about production on the field.

Secondly yeah you can tell williams to go to hell when he asks u to carry his pads... just like he would any rookie. But then you would be called a bad team mate just like dez... thats called not treating you different based on talent but treating you both the same based on attitude

 

[jsull87]

Good point. Bryant isn't taking a stand against hazing. He has no problem with an UDFA carrying shoulder pads for a veteran, but high profile 1st round picks (namely, him) should be exempt. Not exactly the best way to fit in at his new job.

With that said, this is a minor story. If Bryant has a Randy Moss-like rookie season, no one is going to remember that he refused to participate in some benign hazing tradition in training camp. Of course, at the 2011 training camp, Bryant better not expect anyone to carry his shoulder pads.

I agree that if he comes out and performs this will be old news. In the end the NFL is a business and you perform you get paid and fans love you.

All i am saying is 1st day of training camp and he shows a pretty poor attitude to teamwork in a team sport by putting himself above others.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

The ego and arrogance of Dez shines brightly right here. What makes him think he's better than every other rookie that has gone through hazing? Why should veterans all of a sudden stop rookie hazing for him? Why should a ritual that has been going on for decades be stopped just for Dez?

The guy thinks he's someone special and only a smug POS would do something like this. He hasn't proven ANYTHING yet. I was glad the Pats passed on him because he obviously is another prima-donna who thinks he is entitled to things before he goes out and earns them. I wasn't even all that impressed with his play either. He was a good player in college but he wasn't the "best WR in a decade" to come out like some draft experts were claiming.

Bum. He'd fit right in with the NYJ.

 

[Calciumee]

I bet Dez is hoping he has a brilliant year, otherwise he is going to look an even bigger d**k!

 

[Rob0729]

So you were there? Please let me know how it went. Otherwise, we're all speculating at this point. You have no idea if Williams wasn't a douche to Bryant just like I don't know if Williams was. All we can do is take past instances of a guy's behavior (Williams has been a douche toward the team in the past) and the situation between the two (Bryant is coming in because Williams couldn't get the job done) to weigh out our opinions.

I was not there. I am only commenting on the facts we know. I am not speculating on anything like you are. I am saying we don't know what happened between the two players. Based on Bryant's comments, it seems more like it was that he doesn't want to carry anyone's pad rather than not wanting to carry William's pads. For all we know, Williams and Bryant get along well. Until I hear otherwise, Williams was just following training camp traditions. In fact, Williams has defended Bryant publically about the incident calling it no big deal.

I wouldn't want to give him the satisfaction. I think you're making too big of a deal out of this, personally. But I wouldn't give Williams the satisfaction. I'd rather take my licks during practice (if my teammates can catch me... something that doesn't look like it's the case so far with Bryant) and then let my production speak even bigger volumes for me opening up the season. I do agree with your last sentence though.

So you would rather give Williams the satifaction of turning on ESPN and watching former players who are analysts call you imature or a premadonna and out of line for not carrying the pads. The fact that everyone around the country is talking about it tells me that if Williams was trying to demean Bryant, he succeeded more so than making him carry his pads.

You were the one who brought that up as a possibility. I was just responding to your hypothetical.

But you are the one who said that Bryant wouldn't get national attention if Bryant just acted liked a good team player and let Williams hang himself with his own rope. My point is this story should have gone in a way that it never even reached local media attention. Bryant should be concerned with making national news for what he does on the field and not what he does after a practice.

 

[Peachhead]

Can we have a moratorium on the word "hazing" in this thread? Hazing is like something that causes physical pain or discomfort. Like taping a guy to the goalpost for a while in the hot sun or making him sit in the training tub full of ice.

A vet (any vet) telling a rookie (any rookie) to carry his pads is less traumatic than a haircut. It's just deflating his ego and reminding him he hasn't done **** yet.

 

[mgcolby]

I stand corrected. But you still think it doesn't build teamwork or just as easily does the opposite, hence my assumption. .

I didn't say that is doesn't build teamwork, I stated I could easily argue the opposite point. I think some of it is team building worthy, but that is when the whole team is together sharing in it. Not in cases of 1 on 1's where a rookie carries a vets pads. I think some folks on here have over stated the value of hazing in team building process. There are much more affective ways to bond a team.

If I were Dez and a guy that I am competing with for a starting job, especially a guy that no one on the offensive side of the ball including the coaching staff respects, came up to me and told me to carry his pads, I had told him to F off.

 

[mgcolby]

So you're saying that Wilfork shouldnt be mentoring Brace, Welker shouldnt mentor Edelman, Crumpler shouldnt mentor Gronk, etc, etc, because they're in competition for a spot?
Yes, WHILE PRACTICE IS GOING ON, they should be competing.
But what about after the last whistle, is its still supposed to be, "FU, IMMA DO ME!!"?
I think this stuff is just supposed to show that you're able to put aside your ego in the name of helping out a teamate, no matter if its mundane or if he needs the help or not.

edit- I do totally agree on Williams lack of mental talent and he should be nervous

Your comparisons are terrible. First off Wilfork and Welker are not in danger of being cut nor losing there starting jobs any time soon. Especially to two 2nd year players. And Crumpler at this stage of his career knows or should know his role. And that is to compete and get as much playing time as possible, but also mentor the two guys who were obviously brought in to be the future.

I don't see it as a selfish act, I see it as a rookie not allowing a vet to intimidate him. And lets not compare hazing with "helping out a teammate". Helping a teammate in need and being punked by one are two different things.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bryant is now trying to claim that he didn't know about the tradition, so that undercuts the "It's only because it was Williams" crap.

Dez Bryant says he didn't know about tradition | ProFootballTalk.com

Also, note the new development:

Jerry Jones' grandson helped Williams take off his pads today and he carried Dez Bryant's pads.

Williams carried pads as a rookie. This is about Bryant being an ass.

 

[ElReyDeLosReyes]

Good on Dez Bryant. Roy Williams is a crap player and the guy who's replacing him rightfully said "No. I'm not here to be your little b****. I'm here to take your job."

Only way Roy Williams can now get one up on Dez Bryant is by winning the job. But, we know that ain't happening.

 

[TrueBeliever]

Bryant is now trying to claim that he didn't know about the tradition

wait a minute wait a minute WAIT A MINUTE.

Until last year I had never been anywhere near an NFL training camp, and even I knew about that tradition. Puh-leez.

 

[ausbacker]

Bryant is now trying to claim that he didn't know about the tradition, so that undercuts the "It's only because it was Williams" crap.

Dez Bryant says he didn't know about tradition | ProFootballTalk.com

Also, note the new development:



Williams carried pads as a rookie. This is about Bryant being an ass.

In Bryant's defense.. I don't think he knows much about anything. What a clown.