Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Ravens beat the Pats

[goheels22002]

Tell us about Jones' injury, and we'll give you a more informed answer. But, while waiting on that info, let's just say that even reasonable people should at least be noticing cracks in the sky.

There is no question that this edition of the Patriots is not a threat to any team with a capable offense. We knew the Ravens had an explosive attack coming into this one. We also knew the Ravens' defense was completely suspect (and still is.) When you turn the ball over four times and go 2 for 9 on 3rd downs, you're not going get a win. I don't see a coherent approach on offense, especially with a young QB who is very inconsistent with his throws and what appears to be an inability to reliably anticipate what the defense is going to do after the ball is snapped.

I'm fairly comfortable with the capabilities of the defense to keep them in games, but the offense needs a serious re-focus on who their best best players are and what they do well. Four turnovers puts too much pressure on any defense.

The passing game feels right when Mac Jones runs play-action and makes quick reads, although the first INT against the Ravens was play-action and a 20-yard throw into coverage (three defenders around Agholor.) Out of the shotgun, Mac Jones sails the ball consistently putting his receivers at risk and creating interceptions or 50-50 balls. All three INTs yesterday were throws to the defenders - no great plays by Ravens were involved.

I'm wondering if you agree that the Patriots strengths on offense are a) the running game, b) their tight ends, and c) Kendrick Bourne and Devante Parker (when Jacoby Meyers is not in the game.) That's plenty of options to work with. It means they get Bourne on the field as much as possible, find Hunter Henry often, and pound the rock. Their strength lies in moving the chains, chewing up clock with only the occasional shot down the sidelines to keep the safeties honest.

 

[Toofy]

This is gonna sound real dumb but I think the Pats have a better chance to knock off the Packers next week with Hoyer than Mac. Not because Hoyer is better but Mac before the injury was CLEARLY having issues dealing with the new offense and coaching and who the hell knows what. Hoyer is extremely limited and yeah can throw up on himself but he won’t be intimidated by a road game in Lambeau and the Pats can give Rodgers issues on defense and a clock control offense.

That being said it’s still a disaster

How cool would it be if we win a Superbowl with Hoyer and Hoyer turns out to be our nick foles...

 

[venecol]

 

[Dingleberry]

Current line for next week is Packers (-6.0). It opened at (-5.0) so not much movement thus far. Perhaps the perception is that Mac to Hoyer is not exactly a game changer.

We'll see where it goes. I could see it going above 7 though.

For those interested in such things, it is now Packers (-10.5).

 

[Deus Irae]

There is no question that this edition of the Patriots is not a threat to any team with a capable offense. We knew the Ravens had an explosive attack coming into this one. We also knew the Ravens' defense was completely suspect (and still is.) When you turn the ball over four times and go 2 for 9 on 3rd downs, you're not going get a win. I don't see a coherent approach on offense, especially with a young QB who is very inconsistent with his throws and what appears to be an inability to reliably anticipate what the defense is going to do after the ball is snapped.

I'm fairly comfortable with the capabilities of the defense to keep them in games, but the offense needs a serious re-focus on who their best best players are and what they do well. Four turnovers puts too much pressure on any defense.

The passing game feels right when Mac Jones runs play-action and makes quick reads, although the first INT against the Ravens was play-action and a 20-yard throw into coverage (three defenders around Agholor.) Out of the shotgun, Mac Jones sails the ball consistently putting his receivers at risk and creating interceptions or 50-50 balls. All three INTs yesterday were throws to the defenders - no great plays by Ravens were involved.

I think that what we've witnessed is consistent with a young player who's lost faith in his coaching, his offensive line, and his weapons. And I think we started to see the impact of BB taking more control of the offense in the Baltimore game, as the offense was clearly showing signs of improvement. But I'd expect Jones to be a bit of a lagging indicator with that, because it's clear that the offseason did not just lead to him being confused, but also led to him being sped up a little bit.

And, now, with the injury, we could (potentially, depending upon the severity of the injury) be looking at a lost season.

I'm wondering if you agree that the Patriots strengths on offense are a) the running game, b) their tight ends, and c) Kendrick Bourne and Devante Parker (when Jacoby Meyers is not in the game.) That's plenty of options to work with. It means they get Bourne on the field as much as possible, find Hunter Henry often, and pound the rock. Their strength lies in moving the chains, chewing up clock with only the occasional shot down the sidelines to keep the safeties honest.

I think Henry is fine though not spectacular by any means, and that Smith needs to be minimized.

 

[TomPatriot]

I think that what we've witnessed is consistent with a young player who's lost faith in his coaching, his offensive line, and his weapons.

This, especially coaching.

 

[goheels22002]

I think that what we've witnessed is consistent with a young player who's lost faith in his coaching, his offensive line, and his weapons. And I think we started to see the impact of BB taking more control of the offense in the Baltimore game, as the offense was clearly showing signs of improvement. But I'd expect Jones to be a bit of a lagging indicator with that, because it's clear that the offseason did not just lead to him being confused, but also led to him being sped up a little bit.

And, now, with the injury, we could (potentially, depending upon the severity of the injury) be looking at a lost season.



I think Henry is fine though not spectacular by any means, and that Smith needs to be minimized.

You have an interesting take that Mac has lost faith in his coaching, line and receivers. I wonder if that is true of all three, or if it's more that this ain't Alabama, Toto. At Alabama, Mac had the best of the best against just about every opponent and there were few teams he faced (Georgia, Clemson, Ohio State) who could who could match his sideline. Not only is he facing equals, he's facing better teams on a weekly basis. It's a steep learning curve.

On whether this is a lost season, I don't put much weight on being 1-2. Belichick teams always evolve as the season progresses. The OL is showing signs of that already. Yesterday, none of the four turnovers were the result of pressure on the QB. They gave up three sacks, and one of those was on Mac for holding onto the ball too long.

I wasn't sold on the coaching being the problem, but it is certainly disconcerting that the HC has to take a bigger role in play calling so early in the season. Maybe they'll sort some of that out this week, too. Hey if Indianapolis can beat KC and Jacksonville can blow out the Chargers on the road, anything is possible.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Had Bill drafted Lamar, but no RB who was competent, the Pats don’t win the Super Bowl in 2018. Would you trade that for Lamar Jackson? Also, he wouldn’t have played until year 3. In addition, do they tailor the offense around his skill set? If so and he was successful, do they pay what he is currently commanding over $230M guaranteed?

Competent RBs are a dime a dozen. You can pick up good RBs in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

Case in point - Damien Harris 3rd round pick, Rhamondre Stevenson 4th round pick.

You can't tell me that a competent RB > franchise QB in terms of value to a team winning. Especially not in the 1st round.

BTW If BB had drafted Lamar Jackson, how do you know he doesn't find a way to use Jackson, especially seeing how good he is in the run game?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Reviewing the offensive and defensive snaps against the Ravens:

Can't complain about Parker's snaps this game. He finally made himself known in a big way with over 150 yards receiving. It's crazy that Bourne only got 18 snaps when he was our 2nd producing receiver with 58 yards on 4 catches though. Matty P's WR usage still seems very spotty and indicates he still has put Bourne in the doghouse.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

If Dugger plays I think the Pats win that game.

People blame the turnovers but the defense gave up way more points than the offense should be expected to score at this point. Dugger would have helped spying Jackson and covering Andrews so I think he would have made a huge difference.

The offense really took a step forward yesterday, setting a season high for points and yards. If not for Macs injury I would feel good about the progress the offense is making. I have no faith in Hoyer though, so I’d expect the offensive improvement we have seen this far will stall.

 

[captain stone]

Crazy defensive formation and was this really holding on Wynn?

You mean that OH call was against Wynn, and not Henry?

I was at the bar with no audio, so we were all kinda guessing if maybe a wrong number had been called...

 

[captain stone]

So we now know that, as some of us were saying, Parker blew the play ("miscommunication") on that INT in the end zone. Does that change people's mind about how Jones played, even a little bit?

The ball was still in his hands, and he should've known with one look that the corner route was a loser and gone somewhere else... Parker shares in the blame along with his QB & OC.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The idea that we don't win the SB without Sony is so far out there it's in. We ran almost 20 different runs in the SB alone. That was bc of how good the OL was playing at the time not a RB2. Thuney could have got the MVP that game in part bc of his run blocking. Sony wasn't exactly "creating" yards for himself. He ran behind a OL that turn it up. He was a variable in that situation. Like if you're being objective he might have been the 7th best player on offense. He played his part and was good but RB is the easiest position to replace and we've actually done a very good job of finding them in FA/Draft. So it's not like we couldn't find someone to replace Sony lol. I mean how about his teammate Chubb?

I specifically didn't mention Sony by name for a reason. I am not in that camp that thinks "Sony" is the reason they got to the Super Bowl as I've posted many articles showing how Sony's production was overrated with the O-line/TE's/FB creating Grand Canyon sized holes. The question I had was whether they find someone that could've handled the workload over that season?

Competent RBs are a dime a dozen. You can pick up good RBs in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

Agree.

Case in point - Damien Harris 3rd round pick, Rhamondre Stevenson 4th round pick.

But that wasn't in 2018. The only two options that turned out good to great had they taken Lamar would've been Chubb then Ronald Jones who were both taken shortly after. They would've had to make a trade with some team.

You can't tell me that a competent RB > franchise QB in terms of value to a team winning. Especially not in the 1st round.

I'm in the camp that you take a player you can use while you have the GOAT at QB/win now team.

BTW If BB had drafted Lamar Jackson, how do you know he doesn't find a way to use Jackson, especially seeing how good he is in the run game?

That I don't know which is why I asked you what you thought.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I specifically didn't mention Sony by name for a reason. I am not in that camp that thinks "Sony" is the reason they got to the Super Bowl as I've posted many articles showing how Sony's production was overrated with the O-line was creating Grand Canyon sized holes. The question I had was whether they find someone that could've handled the workload over that season?

Agree.

But that wasn't in 2018. The only two options that turned out good to great had they taken Lamar would've been Chubb then Ronald Jones who were both taken shortly after.

I'm in the camp that you take a player you can use while you have the GOAT at QB/win now team.

That I don't know which is why I asked you what you thought.

This team would have been better off taking Lamar Jackson instead of Sony...even if we don't get ring #6 in 2018. The problem was that Brady wanted to play until he was like 50 and the Pats weren't thinking future QB at that point.

 

[TheRainMaker]

This team would have been better off taking Lamar Jackson instead of Sony...even if we don't get ring #6 in 2018. The problem was that Brady wanted to play until he was like 50 and the Pats weren't thinking future QB at that point.

The question I'd like the board to answer is whether Bill agrees to pay him what Lamar is asking for in guaranteed money above $230M?

 

[captain stone]

Apologies if this has already been asked, but I haven't read the GDT or the first 15 pages of the PGT, so:

Why the **** isn't Marcus Jones returning kicks instead of the ****ing execrable ****ing Myles of ****ing Space Bryant?!?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Apologies if this has already been asked, but I haven't read the GDT or the first 15 pages of the PGT, so:

Why the **** isn't Marcus Jones returning kicks instead of the ****ing execrable ****ing Myles of ****ing Space Bryant?!?

I think i saw marcus return a kickoff and he looked pretty sloow/ indecisive. Same with strong on his return, they might still be a bit jittery. That said, myles definitely needs to be taken off PR. Sometimes one fumble gets people buried, yet hes had 2 and somehow avoids the bench. And while hes had some decent returns its not like they’ve been worth the risk.

 

[State]

Apologies if this has already been asked, but [why the bleepity bleep isn’t Marcus Jones returning punts instead of that waste of space Bryant]?

That’s in part why MJ was drafted. Good question.

 

[PP2]

If Dugger plays I think the Pats win that game.

People blame the turnovers but the defense gave up way more points than the offense should be expected to score at this point. Dugger would have helped spying Jackson and covering Andrews so I think he would have made a huge difference.

The offense really took a step forward yesterday, setting a season high for points and yards. If not for Macs injury I would feel good about the progress the offense is making. I have no faith in Hoyer though, so I’d expect the offensive improvement we have seen this far will stall.

I agree.

Dugger does a lot of cleanup tackling, and that was sorely missing yesterday.

 

[1960Pats]

I'm sure we can find a place for McDaniels again after he goes 4-13 this year.

He's going to get a couple of years. Hopefully if he's 4-13 his place won't be right after the Pats in the draft.