New MSNBC article calls for BB's suspension

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Chargers fan here. I'm not here to troll....I come in peace. Just wanted to see what you guys were saying about this videotape issue. I dont know if this whole story is true or not, I will defer any judgement until the league investigates. However, if it is true, this is really bad. Im not just saying that as a fan of an opposing team. It would be just plain bad for your organization, the league, and football in general. In fact, I really hope it's NOT true. We're not talking about an individual cheating (Merriman, Harrison, Bonds, etc.)....we're talking about an entire franchise. Hopefully, this will not be the case and this will be a non-issue by Sunday. Here's to a good game! Cheers!

Nice to see one Chargers fan not here to troll. You'll have to forgive the anti-Charger sentiment on this board; your brethren make it difficult for us to take any Chargers fan seriously.

I'm shocked someone is actually willing to wait until the facts are known. What's wrong with you? That's downright reasonable.

My take is this: you cannot have franchise-wide cheating in sports. There is way too much movement and your players, executives, coaches, everyone is going to end up on other teams. There's no way to keep things secret.

In order for there to be any cheating it would need to be kept quiet. It's why I thought Hobbs's comments were perfect. He doesn't think the team cheats but he understands that he wouldn't know if they did.

Considering the fact that the coach of the Jets is a former NE DC who has brought in many former NE players and staffers, NE cheating in the game doesn't make any sense. This leads me to think that NE didn't consider what they were doing to be cheating (and it also explains why they made so little effort to be covert about it). As an aside, the "red herring" theory would make sense were there any reason for NE to do it, which there really isn't.

I am looking forward to this progressing with the NFL because all of the speculation is silly right now. We know that there was a guy with a camera, which was confiscated by the NFL. We know the NFL is investigating. That's all we actually know. If you listen to Jets fans BB should be banned for life already.

 

[PatriotsReign]

You're comparing a uniform violation to possibly taping another team's signals? It's not petty....it's a serious issue. I know it's frustrated that forum members are jumping ship, but this would be a significant blow to the Pats. Im not saying members shouldnt support your team (they should), but even if you support your team and coach, it would be a black eye for the organization.

Regardless, it is nothing but foolish to have so many discussions on something that has not been determined. We can discuss a thousand what-if's, but it is both foolish and irresponsible. At least until we know the FACTS.

And you can't say it's not petty until this is resolved. If the accusations are proved to be wrong, then it's 100% petty now isn't it?

 

[upstater1]

Why is cheating (possibly by an entire franchise/team) bad?? Do I really need to clarify that?

Yes. Explain in specific as to why stealing signals is bad.

 

[upstater1]

He looked pretty agressive to me. Funny, I dont see other NFL coaches feeling the need to behave in that manner.

Belichek - Good? Yes, absolutely

Classy? No

That's because he's the best coach in the league and no other coach has ever had a gaggle of reporters waiting to see him touch another man after the game. Norv Turner will never get to experience this.

You guys don't know anything about class since you root for thugs.

 

[upstater1]

You're comparing a uniform violation to possibly taping another team's signals? It's not petty....it's a serious issue. I know it's frustrated that forum members are jumping ship, but this would be a significant blow to the Pats. Im not saying members shouldnt support your team (they should), but even if you support your team and coach, it would be a black eye for the organization.

You haven't read all the articles here on the subject, have you? You're missing the big piece of this that blows your theory out of the water. The NFL has specifically said that it's OK to steal signals off a videotape and employ them in a game. The NFL does not believe this is cheating.

The only thing that's at issue here is whether a cameraman was taping on the sidelines. If I were taping from somewhere else, stole those signals, employed them in a football game, the NFL would be perfectly fine with it.

Do you understand that?

 

[Mack Herron]

You haven't read all the articles here on the subject, have you? You're missing the big piece of this that blows your theory out of the water. The NFL has specifically said that it's OK to steal signals off a videotape and employ them in a game. The NFL does not believe this is cheating.

The only thing that's at issue here is whether a cameraman was taping on the sidelines. If I were taping from somewhere else, stole those signals, employed them in a football game, the NFL would be perfectly fine with it.

Do you understand that?

What is your source for these alleged facts? I think that you are wrong, and the team is not allowed to do any videotaping during the game. If you want to talk facts, get your facts right before being so smug.

 

[MiChargers]

You haven't read all the articles here on the subject, have you? You're missing the big piece of this that blows your theory out of the water. The NFL has specifically said that it's OK to steal signals off a videotape and employ them in a game. The NFL does not believe this is cheating.

The only thing that's at issue here is whether a cameraman was taping on the sidelines. If I were taping from somewhere else, stole those signals, employed them in a football game, the NFL would be perfectly fine with it.

Do you understand that?

Exactly. He was on the sideline using a videotape. What theory? If it's not cheating, then why is it making so much news and why are Pats fans is such an uproar? There's no excuse if what is alleged, is verified to be true.

 

[belichickaholic]

If stealing signals is as old as football itself, when did it become cheating? Ten years ago? ... Five years ago? ... Two years ago? ... Or after Mr Polian said it was?........

 

[Mack Herron]

for the record:

"The rule is that no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game," the league said in a statement from spokesman Greg Aiello. "Clubs have specifically been reminded in the past that the videotaping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals on the sidelines is prohibited.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3012989

 

[upstater1]

What is your source for these alleged facts? I think that you are wrong, and the team is not allowed to do any videotaping during the game. If you want to talk facts, get your facts right before being so smug.

What facts are you referring to, Mr. High and Mighty? Let me know which facts you're taking issue with, and I'll provide you the source.

I even agreed with your last point. The NFL is against videotaping the opposition's signals. But at the same time the NFL is saying it's OK to use the information about stolen signals taken from a videotape, and to employ those signals in a game. So, this can't e classified as cheating if the NFL is ok with taking signals from a videotape and using them in a game. It can only be classified as breaking the rule about videotaping.

You're a Patriot fan and you don't know the history behind this videotaping incident?

 

[upstater1]

Exactly. He was on the sideline using a videotape. What theory? If it's not cheating, then why is it making so much news and why are Pats fans is such an uproar? There's no excuse if what is alleged, is verified to be true.

I never said that's not against the rules. It is. I only said that use of the videotape to steal signals and hen employ them in a game is NOT against the rules. The NFL is fine with it.

Why is it making so much news? Are you really asking that question? Patriots fans are explaining to you that it's bogus.

You don't seem to understand this: The NFL is fine with what you're calling "cheating," if by cheating you mean taking signals from a videotape and using that knowledge to your competitive advantage in a game.

I encourage all of you to read all the links on this issue on the board today before commenting.

 

[MiChargers]

If stealing signals is as old as football itself, when did it become cheating? Ten years ago? ... Five years ago? ... Two years ago? ... Or after Mr Polian said it was?........

Stealing signals (just like in baseball) is fine as long as you can do it within the white lines. Blatantly videotaping over the coaches shoulder is not. How can you possibly try to excuse that? It's essentially one step short of this "employee" standing in the huddle or swiping a playbook.

 

[upstater1]

Re: for the record:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3012989

Mack, Can you read? You seem to have a problem with my posts where I've said the NFL has prohibited videotaping. But it has not prohibited with taking stolen signals from a videotape and employing those signals in a game. In fact, the NFL has come out and said, it's perfectly fine to do that. So how is it cheating? If the Patriots disobeyed a rule against videotaping, then that's one thing. B ut if the NFL specifically allows you to take information from a videotape and use that in a game, then that's NOT cheating. Any team in the NFL could do it (and they do) and it's called legal.

 

[MiChargers]

I never said that's not against the rules. It is. I only said that use of the videotape to steal signals and hen employ them in a game is NOT against the rules. The NFL is fine with it.

Why is it making so much news? Are you really asking that question? Patriots fans are explaining to you that it's bogus.

You don't seem to understand this: The NFL is fine with what you're calling "cheating," if by cheating you mean taking signals from a videotape and using that knowledge to your competitive advantage in a game.

I encourage all of you to read all the links on this issue on the board today before commenting.

Already read 'em, but thanks for the suggestion. I actually have found only a small handful on these boards trying to rationalize this conduct. The rest are very much embarassed. You keep mentioning the "use" of the videotape is OK....and that's fine. But the issue is "how it was obtained."

 

[upstater1]

Stealing signals (just like in baseball) is fine as long as you can do it within the white lines. Blatantly videotaping over the coaches shoulder is not. How can you possibly try to excuse that? It's essentially one step short of this "employee" standing in the huddle or swiping a playbook.

Again, you're out of your element. The NFL said the videotape was taken from a guy on the Patriots sideline wearing Patriots' gear and credentialed by the Patriots.

And be more specific, what white lines are you talking about? Is it OK to steal signals by using a videotape? Answer that.

 

[upstater1]

Already read 'em, but thanks for the suggestion. I actually have found only a small handful on these boards trying to rationalize this conduct. The rest are very much embarassed. You keep mentioning the "use" of the videotape is OK....and that's fine. But the issue is "how it was obtained."

Right. Now you understand. This is a bureaucratic technicality because the NFL is perfectly OK with "cheating" as you defined it. They're just not OK with videotaping.

Personally, I see a sort of illogic there, but that never surprises me when I'm dealing with bureaucrats.

 

[MiChargers]

Again, you're out of your element. The NFL said the videotape was taken from a guy on the Patriots sideline wearing Patriots' gear and credentialed by the Patriots.

And be more specific, what white lines are you talking about? Is it OK to steal signals by using a videotape? Answer that.

You made the point about using videotape already. We get it. What are the white lines? During the course of play. Through the game itself. A player or coach picking up on something during the game. Do you not understand the difference? How much more blatant could cheating be in a game? Walking over to an opposing side line and filming their signs, are you kidding me? By the way, a "rule violation" as you like to put it......is cheating.

 

[DW Toys]

You haven't read all the articles here on the subject, have you? You're missing the big piece of this that blows your theory out of the water. The NFL has specifically said that it's OK to steal signals off a videotape and employ them in a game. The NFL does not believe this is cheating.

The only thing that's at issue here is whether a cameraman was taping on the sidelines. If I were taping from somewhere else, stole those signals, employed them in a football game, the NFL would be perfectly fine with it.

Do you understand that?

Cousin I agree,
If this Head of Security let this guy ("Deep Shorts") stand and take pics all day long, I certainly would not have let the people I work for know that I did
not get rid of this Pats informant (spy) for some time. What was he thinking? Would you admit this? Something stinks pretty bad here. Can I apply for his job? At least all of the other Security dudes that say the Pats have spied, wouldn't admit they actually let him stroll around for some time. Good he wasn't someones husband who a Jets player was having an affair with.

There is not one team in the league that would not welcome BB as their head coach. It's called jealousy.

"Look what they've done to my boy"-Credit, V. Corleone:
1-Wife tampering
2-Handshake tampering
3-Trying to make a reasonable deal with the Vikings tampering
4-Welker tampering
5-Beating Manning and beating up on their WR and the Colts on many occasions tampering
6-Super Bowl wins too many times tampering
7-Forcing Rodney to take HGH tampering
8-Stealing Randy Moss for a fourth rounder tampering
9-Lousy media sound bites tampering
10-Making your quarterback decide to have a child out-of-wedlock tampering
11-Very vague injury reports so the other teams or bookies don't know squat tampering

And now the piece de resistance-
12-A dude in shorts with a great big huge "Fathead" type camera meandering aimlessly to the opposition sideline tampering.

Now the implausible part of this. "Deep Shorts", a supposed Pats "gang member", first thing out of his mouth is he was told to do this by BB? You betcha!!!! Think they (security or the NFL) ripped his nails out? Think BB has had him "whacked" yet for ratting? What's that then, idiot cameraman tampering?
DW Toys

 

[belichickaholic]

Stealing signals (just like in baseball) is fine as long as you can do it within the white lines. Blatantly videotaping over the coaches shoulder is not. How can you possibly try to excuse that? It's essentially one step short of this "employee" standing in the huddle or swiping a playbook.

Please.... If there is a "code of silence" about it. (as the Packer official said there is) Then that "code of silence" should be upheld. Otherwise, you come off as a spineless whiner like Polian. and now Manwha-wha. How come only four teams have complained about it? Three of which have an ax to grind with the Pats.

 

[upstater1]

You made the point about using videotape already. We get it. What are the white lines? During the course of play. Through the game itself. A player or coach picking up on something during the game. Do you not understand the difference? How much more blatant could cheating be in a game? Walking over to an opposing side line and filming their signs, are you kidding me? By the way, a "rule violation" as you like to put it......is cheating.

During the course of play? The NFL is ok with using stolen signals garnered froma videotape during the course of play. That's what this is all about. The NFL is fine with that. Did you not read the article on the Miami Dolphins game?

Next, who walked over to the opposing sidelines? The more you write, the more you're showing your basic ignorance of what happened here. The tape was taken off a guy filming on the Patriots' sideline.

A rule violation is cheating? Huh? Where in the world do you get your information. If I take black magic marker out on the field after I score a touchdown, that's cheating? If I refuse to meet with the press after a game, that's cheating? if I don't show up on super Bowl media day, that's cheating? These are ALL rules violations. They are not cheating. Try again.