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Moss is more valuable than Brady

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by sanvara, Nov 21, 2007.

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  1. sanvara

    sanvara Rookie

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    Moss is more valuable than Brady
    Jason Whitlock

    No offense to Tom Brady, one of my favorite NFL players of all time, but Randy Moss is the MVP of the National Football League.

    It ain't even close.

    Seriously, denying Randy Moss this year's Associated Press MVP award would be borderline criminal. If Allen Iverson is the answer in basketball, Randy Moss is the question that no one in football can answer.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7472596?MSNHPHMA
  2. Disco Volante

    Disco Volante Rookie

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    Uh, Moss w/out Brady last year = Joke season.

    Brady w/out Moss last year = Great, as usual.

    We could still win without Moss.

    Good luck winning without Brady.
  3. Nordy

    Nordy Rookie

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    Brady gets injured for the season.
    Moss gets injured for the season.


    Which scenario makes the Patriots the worse team? I think the clear answer is Brady here.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2007
  4. NYPatsFan

    NYPatsFan Rookie

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    I agree.

    Brady - Moss = 3 Super Bowls
    Moss - Brady = 0 Super Bowls
  5. Xzibit23

    Xzibit23 Rookie

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    Moss is performance last year was more about Oakland, their pathetic Offensive line, QB and overall coaching. Both of these players have proven that they are great WITHOUT each other, so no need to go down that road.
  6. patsonmyback

    patsonmyback Rookie

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    I agree man, Brady wouldnt be putting up the numbers he is putting up without Moss.

    Brady is more valuable to the team, but Moss is the nost valuable player on the field when the ball is snapped. Injury wise, of course losing Brady would be big b/c he has to get it to Randy, but from play to play, Moss is the MVP on the offense.
  7. Patriots4Life83

    Patriots4Life83 Rookie

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    Moss has been the MVP in two games (Colts and Bills), the rest go to Brady.
  8. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What Horse crap.
    These 2 players ARE making each other more than they ever were before.
    I'd like to see a co-mvp for those 2. They both deserve it
    Not even Close?????This guys credibilty sinks further into the toilet with every new column he writes.
  9. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

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    Where do these guys get their brains from? Seriously, WHERE DO THEY GET THEIR BRAIN??????????? Man, it's just absurd. I love Moss. He's great. Best receiver(when he comes to play) that I have ever seen. Having said that, he has won jack in this league. Brady has 3 rings. You think the Pats win the super bowl with Brady winging it to Stallworth, Welker, and Watson? I say yes. You think Cassell can with it with Moss, Stallworth, Welker, and Watson? I say NO. Case closed. Class dismissed.
  10. Patriots4Life83

    Patriots4Life83 Rookie

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    This is exactly why the MVP award is a joke.

    You could argue all day about what one player couldnt do without the other and vice versa, but it might as well be called the "Who Put up Most Impressive Stats" Award.
  11. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    I've been saying co-mvp all along. It goes hand in hand. If they both end up breaking records, how could you pick one over the other. Co-MVP seems like the best option. They both deserve it.
  12. Xzibit23

    Xzibit23 Rookie

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    I think its hard for a great WR to be more valuable than a great QB because the nature of football dictates that a QB has a lot more say in your team's fortunes. That being said, Moss is a HUGE reason why the Pats are having a record breaking season and is more than just "one WR".

    -Without Moss, the Pats are still a SB contender but they dont go undefeated and their lack of a running game becomes a big problem that needs fixing.

    -Without Brady, the team is still a playoff team but probably not a legitimate championship contender. They would be a Denver/Jacksonville level team.
  13. Xzibit23

    Xzibit23 Rookie

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    It should also be noted that if the Pats had a better backup QB, this question becomes more realistic. While Brady is obviously extremely valuable, the fact that Cassell hasn't proven himself makes him even more valuable.
  14. patsonmyback

    patsonmyback Rookie

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    I don't think Moss is more valuable than Brady from a team aspect. But play by play, on the field, in the game, wev'e always been able to win, hell we've got three rings without moss,

    But be real with the situation. We've never destroyed opponents like this, and that is directly related to the signing of Randy. Tom is the Best, but Randy makes us a cheat team.:D
  15. Patriots4Life83

    Patriots4Life83 Rookie

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    This is just a "come up with a new angle" story. They have talked about Brady's greatness at nausium and now they are bored.
  16. Charlotte Pats Fan

    Charlotte Pats Fan Rookie

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    Easy, Brady is the one throwing the balls to Moss. Looking at the stats Brady has thrown 22 TD's to people not named Moss.

    This is just another BS way to downgrade Brady's performance this year.
  17. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    It's an interesting argument. It's like when Shaq and Kobe were on the same team. The feeling at the time was that Shaq made Kobe b/c Shaq always required double-teams, but at the same time, Kobe was the one that would take all the shots in crunch time (and make them most of the time), and wasn't dependent on others to get his shots. Of course, the question can't be answered - it's a chicken and egg thing - but it eventually comes down to whom the sportswriters like more - and that will be Tom every time.
  18. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

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    Again, do we have a better chance at winning the super bowl without Moss or without Brady? It's not even a debate. Puhleaze. As great as Moss is, Brady has 3 super bowl without him. Hell, Brady put up 34 points at Indy last year with Reche Caldwell as his #1 option, LOL! I mean, really, let's get serious. We can play this game all day long. Give the friggen award to Belichick then because Brady and Moss wouldn't be sniffing a ring without him. You can go on and on forever. They all need one another. However, it all starts with #12. He is the Steve Nash of the NFL. He spreads the ball around baby. Would Steve Nash win the MVP is he didn't rack up countless assists throwing the rock to Stoudamire and Marion? Of course not.
  19. patsonmyback

    patsonmyback Rookie

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    and 16 to Moss,

    and how many of Moss' have been spectacular catches. Keep it real.
  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is the same mediot rationale that gave Tom's 3rd superbowl MVP trophy to the immortal Deion Branch...

    Moss is the most freakishly talented WR in the league. But that won him nothing over the last decade. Brady can win consistently without a Moss, can't say the same for Moss with any other QB he's been paired with. And it's not just the accuracy and the good decision making including when not to go to Moss, it's the way Tom has helped the team embrace and incorporate Moss allowing him to achieve his full potential from an athletic as well as leadership standpoint - at a time when the same mediots claimed he had lost a step (which he likely has) and was selfish and disguntled (for no good reason in spite of who he'd ended up playing for and with most of his career...).
  21. BoTown

    BoTown Rookie

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    Yup. Brady would be great as usual but he wouldn't be over-the-top great without Moss. Same goes vice-versa.
  22. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Isn't it really cool that the debate is which Patriot is the league MVP, and not a Patriot vs. a player on another team. :)
  23. sanvara

    sanvara Rookie

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    The author is not downgrading Brady's performance. He said right up front that Brady is one of his favorite players of all time.

    Obviously arguments can be made both ways but Tom has never had a season like this before and a large part of Tom's level of play being so high this season is because of Moss. Not only the plays Moss makes but he opens the field up for Tom to get the ball to other guys.

    Tom's QB rating for the six years he has been a starter has been between 85 and 92. This year he gets Moss and his rating is 131. Tom didn't all of a sudden become a better player after six seasons. He's basically the same QB he was last year, but Moss is the difference.
  24. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    This is a silly discussion. Moss isn't even leading the Pats in catches. Clearly, he's overrated.
  25. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I wonder who Whitlock voted for MVP in 2004?

    Did he vote for Marvin Harrison or Peyton Manning?
  26. Xzibit23

    Xzibit23 Rookie

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    Those of you who are saying "Brady won 3 SBs" or "Brady has won without Moss, what has Moss won"..are missing the point. Brady was great before Moss, there's no debate around that nor is Whitlock trying to argue the opposite. In fact he makes a point to continually mention that Brady is indeed one of the alltime greats.

    Thing is while Brady has accomplish A LOT without Moss, he has NOT put up MVP numbers. So while he experience a lot of success with the Caldwells of the world, he never experienced the individual success he's going through now. Moss on the other hand has had MVP type impact and performances in previous seasons. Actually, if not for the Vikings slowing down the last 5 weeks of the 2001 season, he was the leading candidate. He was also in contention in '98 and '03, where he again fell victim to the team fading down the stretch.

    You see, Brady has showed his true value to the team time and time again, by the SBs and signature moments. But he has not shown MVP value in regards to the award and what it means. MVP value is also dependant on team success but that's secondary, while statistical performance from an individual standpoint is what gives the winners that award, and Brady has done this year that he hasn't in the past.
  27. Xzibit23

    Xzibit23 Rookie

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    Did Marvin break the TD record?? Was that Marvin's first year with the team?? Because that creates a direct correlation between Manning having that season.
  28. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Think about your argument for a second.

    Almost everyone will agree that Pats 2005 receivers > Pats 2006 receivers. But Brady's numbers are--nevertheless--quite similar. Could it possibly be that the effort Brady put in to get those receivers into shape is truly paying off now that he has top-flight receivers?

    Also, if it's merely that he has better WRs, how do you explain the fact that Welker's catch % has gone up dramatically as well (Welker was catching about 65% of his passes last year; now he's catching a league-leading* 80%). Last I checked, Welker's not exactly the kind of receiver that can catch a badly overthrown pass.
  29. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    Stupid thread, move on!
  30. Xzibit23

    Xzibit23 Rookie

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    At the end of the day, BOTH Moss and Brady make those around them better, including each other. It really doesn't have to be an either/or options. They're both HOFers who are among the greatest at their respective positions. I still believe Brady is more valuable because I believe his position is more valuable, but Moss is right behind him and much more valuable that some Pats fans would like to believe.
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