Moss is more valuable than Brady

[bluepatriot]

oh come on, do u think philip rivers can do what brady does if he has moss?

the damn ball has to be thrown to moss so that he can catch it, and brady throws him the ball...everyone just thinks it's simple to just throw the ball but it is because brady makes it look easy

 

[the taildragger]

We can ALL see the impact these receivers, and ESPECIALLY Moss, are having on this team this season.

It's beyond incredible....and it clearly illustrates why some of us have been angry with the front office in years past with their attitude toward the WR position.

If we're measuring value in terms of passing TDs you can make the case for Moss as MVP.

But you can't objectively value high scoring over wins/losses. Obviously the Pats aren't scoring as much without Moss, but they aren't winning as much without Tom.

Bill, Scott and Kraft would sooner part with Moss and half the roster before they ever let the QB get away. Sure, you lose the historic record setting pace without Moss AND Brady, but regardless of the receivers, you lose championships without Tom.

Whitlock sees the records being set and wrongly attributes 100% of it to Randy -- when its the nuclear synergy between Tom and Randy producing these ridiculous numbers. Once you understand that, and realize that they are equally responsible for the records being shattered, then you have to look at positional value.

Great QBs almost always trump great WRs....exceptions? Maybe Hutson, Warfield, Stallworth/Swann, Rice over Young, Harrison/Wayne over Manning (this is becoming obvious)....and those are still debatable.

The MVP is really a popularity contest....we shape and mold the definition of MVP to fit the player we want to win (i.e. this year its stats, or this year its about carrying a scrappy group of overachievers to the playoffs, or this year its the best player on the best team).

Brady has almost inarguably been the MVP of the league since he arrived in 2001....Peyton had the good fortune of being a good player in a great passing system and, coupled with his commercial exposure, became the face of the league for better or worse....like Favre before him, PM won the MVP multiple times.

This year Tom wins every possible definition of "value"....most lopsided MVP race ever. And yet an amazing number of experts are campaigning for other players. There are some major agendas at work...or ignorance....take your pick with Whitlock.

 

[zoostation]

They are both great. Let's keep them together for the rest of their careers.

Tom Brady = living legeng.

ala: Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Ted Williams etc... Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[mb6592]

We can ALL see the impact these receivers, and ESPECIALLY Moss, are having on this team this season.

It's beyond incredible....and it clearly illustrates why some of us have been angry with the front office in years past with their attitude toward the WR position.

If we're measuring value in terms of passing TDs you can make the case for Moss as MVP.

WTF people, THIS IS NOT EVEN CLOSE. Pats & Brady would be having a hell of a season w/ Welker, Stallworth, Watson, Gaffney... Everyone is saying Moss is making it easier for everyone esle, while seeming to discount what Brady,Welker, and Stallworth have meant to Moss. I love Moss but he is a RECEIVER. How many quality receivers are there in the NFL? how many quality QB's?

 

[Ishdul]

I think people are really underestimating Moss' impact. He takes 2 or more defenders with him deep every time, and on those rare occasions in which he gets singled up or even left alone it's basically an automatic touchdown. Despite the extra attention, he's still on pace for 1600 yards and 25 touchdowns. Not to take anything away from Welker and Stallworth, but they're huge benefactors of having Moss on the field. The DBs key on him on running plays, for god's sake. He stretches the field like no-one else and

The thing about Moss in Oakland was that Oakland was a total piece of **** team. Moss was hurt for part of it, and he actually did produce to a decent tune in his first year doing a lot of the same things he always does (their passing game was actually top 10 that year, and not because of anything Kerry Collins/Jerry Porter/Robert Gallery did). Moss made every **** QB that Minnesota could throw at him look good. He made a completely washed up Jeff George look resurgent, a worthless Todd Bauman look like a rising star and Spurgeon Wynn look better than Spurgeon Wynn had any right to be. It's no coincidence that he's been a part of the 2 greatest offenses ever.

Brady is a great player in his own merit, and obviously what he did with Reche Caldwell as the #1 receiver was extremely impressive, but putting up numbers with Todd Bauman is the WR equivalent to putting up numbers with Reche Caldwell. Moss definitely has some claim to the MVP. There's absolutely no chance that Moss wins the MVP, and I highly doubt that he even finishes in top 3 of voting, which is the real shame.

 

[mb6592]

I think people are really underestimating Moss' impact...Brady is a great player in his own merit...Moss definitely has some claim to the MVP...

clueless - f-cking - clueless

 

[Ishdul]

So, what?

Moss is overrated? Brady is not a good player in his own merit? Moss has no claim to the MVP? What's your point of contention?

Jesus ****ing Christ, I'm rightfully saying that people are being stupid by spouting any part of ''Moss is nothing without Brady'' (thus him being underappreciated). Moss is playing as well as anyone I've ever seen. Brady is too (thus Brady is a good player in his won merit). Moss should be high up on the MVP list, a definite #2, (thus Moss has a claim to MVP) but in all likelihood he won't even get more votes than Manning.

 

[mb6592]

So, what?

Moss is overrated? Brady is not a good player in his own merit? Moss has no claim to the MVP? What's your point of contention?

People aren't underestimating Moss, they just rightly know that Brady is BY FAR more valuable. Brady is not a good player in his own merit (whatever that means) HE IS ARGUABLY THE BEST QUARTERBACK EVER (talk about underestimating someone), MOSS HAS NO CLAIM TO THE MVP, NOT EVEN A LITTLE, NOT EVEN AN IOTA. Pats w/o Moss still favored to beat Colts & win SB (although, obviously, by a much smaller margin than w/ Moss) - Pats w/o Brady would not be favored to beat Colts in rematch and would not be favored to beat Dallas in SB. People need to stop comparing Moss to Brady & focus comparisons to other RECEIVERS - then Moss becomes the man among boys.

 

[MossFan4Life]

I just want to add this. Look at the games that Frerotte, Bouman, Culpepper, Cunningham, and George played with Moss and then look at the games that they did not. See the difference? Hell, Frerotte had been sitting on the bench all year and came in and put up 157.2 qb ratings with Moss. Bouman came in a racked up some big td and passing yard games. Moss even made Culpepper look like a Pro Bowl passer, which is not and never will be without him (actually he's been horrible in 70% of the games without Moss).

Then look at Brady's season td marks compared to this year. What a coincidence that it's a similar huge spike that the other qbs experienced. He's better than all of those guys so it's an even larger difference. Also, he is a humble person unlike Culpepper and he has the guts to throw into traffic unlike Culpepper. He is making the most of it, and it couldn't happen to a better guy. I'm happy for both of them.

So, Moss had done this with many qbs. Brady has done this with one wide receiver, who happens to be Moss. Moss even had a similar season with another team in the 98 Vikings, the highest scoring team ever. They were a perennial 8-8 or 9-7 team before that and they went to 15-1 in Moss' rookie year. That can't be a coincidence. I'm talking about putting up huge offensive numbers, by the way, not necessarily referring to winning which Brady has accomplished throughout his career even though the numbers weren't huge.

I think Brady will get MVP and I'm cool with that, but I think we should all realize that Moss is a huge factor in this offense's explosion.

 

[MossFan4Life]

I think people are really underestimating Moss' impact. He takes 2 or more defenders with him deep every time, and on those rare occasions in which he gets singled up or even left alone it's basically an automatic touchdown. Despite the extra attention, he's still on pace for 1600 yards and 25 touchdowns. Not to take anything away from Welker and Stallworth, but they're huge benefactors of having Moss on the field. The DBs key on him on running plays, for god's sake. He stretches the field like no-one else and

The thing about Moss in Oakland was that Oakland was a total piece of **** team. Moss was hurt for part of it, and he actually did produce to a decent tune in his first year doing a lot of the same things he always does (their passing game was actually top 10 that year, and not because of anything Kerry Collins/Jerry Porter/Robert Gallery did). Moss made every **** QB that Minnesota could throw at him look good. He made a completely washed up Jeff George look resurgent, a worthless Todd Bauman look like a rising star and Spurgeon Wynn look better than Spurgeon Wynn had any right to be. It's no coincidence that he's been a part of the 2 greatest offenses ever.

Brady is a great player in his own merit, and obviously what he did with Reche Caldwell as the #1 receiver was extremely impressive, but putting up numbers with Todd Bauman is the WR equivalent to putting up numbers with Reche Caldwell. Moss definitely has some claim to the MVP. There's absolutely no chance that Moss wins the MVP, and I highly doubt that he even finishes in top 3 of voting, which is the real shame.

I agree that it's a shame that so many of the voters don't like Moss, but I think he will probably still finish 2nd this year. This is an excellent post that you made. I didn't see it before I posted mine, but you are exactly right about Bouman. Moss has always been better with people that would just step back and throw the ball instead of trying to run and be cute. Bouman and Frerotte were much better with Moss (4 td games, 157.2 qb ratings, etc), but Green was too pig-headed to play them because he drafted Culpepper and wanted to show that he was right. He is one stubborn individual.

 

[redster]

Tom Brady is having MVP season because of Moss. Prior to this year, Brady hardly ever had any statistically great season. Sure, he has won a bunch of superbowls, but when exactly did Pats beat their opponents with such a huge margin. Last I heard, you guys have a margin of victory of about 25 points. Patriots, while they have been good in the past, have never been this good. So, one has to ask the question: what changed? The answer is simple. You traded for Moss, who is probably the best receiver of all time. Since Brady is having MVP season because Moss catches whatever is thrown to him, the real MVP is therefore Randy Moss, not Tom Brady. Winning superbowls doesn't make you MVP if you don't have a statistically great season to go with it.

 

[ddotderek]

hey idiots, here is the difference..brady has won 3 SBs without Moss, true, that was in a different time you morons, by the way, if moss would of been on any of those superbowl teams, the point differential would of been higher then 3pts avg for those superbowl victorys..anyways WITH MOSS, pats would have won instead of the steelers..WITH MOSS, pats would have won instead of the colts..PATS would have won instead of the TAMPA BUCS!!DUH, we are in a different time..now I am not a wizard so I cant predict the future, but I can guarantee that the Brady wouldnt be putting up records in TDs,Completions,QB RATING if it wasnt for MOSS, and anybody that disagrees is a idiot..I dont even know if they would be 10-0 but maybe they would be, but the margin of victory wouldnt be 25.5 like it is now..Brady is possibly the best QB to ever play the NFL..but he wouldnt of had HALF OF THE STATS he has now if it wasnt for MOSS, plain and simple. dont try denying that...but then again, MVP goes to the chef, and the chef is BRADY.

 

[sanvara]

Actually, Tom Brady is a significantly better player this year. His accuracy is much better than in past years. Not sure why that is...

It's because of Moss drawing 2 and 3 defenders, making plays, and opening up the field for other receivers to get open.

Tom's QB rating for the six years he has been a starter has been between 85 and 92. This year he gets Moss and his rating is 131. Moss is the difference.

 

[mb6592]

Tom Brady is having MVP season because of Moss. Prior to this year, Brady hardly ever had any statistically great season. Sure, he has won a bunch of superbowls, but when exactly did Pats beat their opponents with such a huge margin. Last I heard, you guys have a margin of victory of about 25 points. Patriots, while they have been good in the past, have never been this good. So, one has to ask the question: what changed? The answer is simple. You traded for Moss, who is probably the best receiver of all time. Since Brady is having MVP season because Moss catches whatever is thrown to him, the real MVP is therefore Randy Moss, not Tom Brady. Winning superbowls doesn't make you MVP if you don't have a statistically great season to go with it.

What would his numbers be with Welker, Stallworth, Watson and Gaffney as opposed to what he had last year? The Pats overhauled their receivers. This is not all about Moss - this is about Brady finally having weapons. Moss is great, but Brady would be putting up Manning like numbers if Moss wasn't here but Welker & Stallworth were.

 

[mb6592]

hey idiots, here is the difference..brady has won 3 SBs without Moss, true, that was in a different time you morons, by the way, if moss would of been on any of those superbowl teams, the point differential would of been higher then 3pts avg for those superbowl victorys..anyways WITH MOSS, pats would have won instead of the steelers..WITH MOSS, pats would have won instead of the colts..PATS would have won instead of the TAMPA BUCS!!DUH, we are in a different time..now I am not a wizard so I cant predict the future, but I can guarantee that the Brady wouldnt be putting up records in TDs,Completions,QB RATING if it wasnt for MOSS, and anybody that disagrees is a idiot..I dont even know if they would be 10-0 but maybe they would be, but the margin of victory wouldnt be 25.5 like it is now..Brady is possibly the best QB to ever play the NFL..but he wouldnt of had HALF OF THE STATS he has now if it wasnt for MOSS, plain and simple. dont try denying that...but then again, MVP goes to the chef, and the chef is BRADY.

Hey, dolt derek, wipe the drool off your mouth and pay attention. It's about winning, not winning big. Without Brady we don't win Superbowls, with Brady we won 3 Superbowls and may win another one. Now finish writing "R" on your right shoe & "L" on your left shoe.

 

[SEA_Pat]

1. MVP is a bit of a strange award given that football is probably the biggest team sport there is. In practice it should go for the most important part on the winningest team each year. But it seldom does because it turns into a popularity contest (which is proper, because that is essentially what it is). That it generates such discussion demonstrates its effectiveness to promote the NFL.

2. What's happened in the past or without each other doesn't matter, this is the 2007 Patriots. MVP isn't, or at least shouldn't, be about historical performance, it is about this year. And yes, Brady and Moss should surely have been awarded MVP in at least one of the previous years.

3. The Patriot offense is the most important part of the dominance of this team notwithstanding the amazing and utterly undervalued and unappreciated Patriot defense. Thus, it has to be the offense and that makes it either Brady or Moss.

4. In my opinion, it is closer than people seem to think for the most part between the two. Moss' value is VERY high to this team. Many have mentioned the opening up of coverage and space for the other receivers because Moss requires at least two men. Few have mentioned the lack of pass rush because of defenses having to drop so many more people into coverage directly as a result of this. As a result, Brady has more time to throw and this has directly improved his accuracy and ability to check down to other receivers. Brady has been putting on a virtuoso performance for the ages in these great circumstances.

5. Which is to return to the first point. Football is a team game. The improvement in the performances of Brady AND Moss is the direct result of the synergy between them and the impact it has on the rest of the offense. You can't really discuss the performance of one without the other. Together they are historically great.

Conclusion:

Moss has been astonishingly good and done everything asked of him and done it well. His talent provides problems to defenses that force them to change what they do and makes everyone better. Brady has been as good, not a single bad game overall, clutch as ever, at the top level in the history of football for QBs. In a team game where the guy running the team every offensive down is the QB and he is delivering the ball when and where it needs to be, he has to be the MVP.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. It's just a popularity contest.

 

[FrontSeven]

Since when did Randy Moss carry a team to three SB titles?

One guy is a leader of this team, and the other guy is *the* leader.

One guy raises the level of all the *other* receivers and the other guy raises the level of *all* receivers.

One guy touched the ball on 16 TDs while the other guy touched the ball for 38 TDs.

I'm sorry, I don't see an argument for a receiver to be MVP, no matter what they gave to Deion against the Eagles. Deion wouldn't have even BEEN THERE without that QB.

 

[Rawky77]

For me its BRADY and its not even close....Moss is a super talent, he is smart and a team player but its BRADY who makes this team dominant and here is my reasoning.
1st BRADY is not a super athlete like a Vick or a V. Young he is a slow runner with a decent arm and makes up for these deficiency's with his MIND which is second to none, self discipline and HARD WORK even in this his eighth year when he is making 10 mill plus a year.

In my mind BRADY is like Larry Bird with many of Birds same qualities Hard Work, Leadership, Making other players around him better, and a will to win that infects the entire team.
2nd While Moss is a super talent who has done many of the same things he is doing this year for the Vikes when he was with them yet with the Vikes Moss never won the Super Bowl or even got to the Super Bowl and he never went 19 and 0. Both of which are possible this year with Brady as QB.

3rd ask yourself these questions? Could the Pats go 19 and 0 without Moss, the answer is yes they already went 22 and 0, without Moss. Could the Pats win the Super Bowl without Moss. Yes for they already have, 3 times.

Now reverse it and ask could this team without BRADY go 19 and 0 and win their fourth Super Bowl without BRADY. The answer to this last question is "MAYBE" while the answer to the first two questions is YES. So the MVP must be BRADY without question.

 

[mb6592]

1. MVP is a bit of a strange award given that football is probably the biggest team sport there is. In practice it should go for the most important part on the winningest team each year. But it seldom does because it turns into a popularity contest

It's not incumbent upon real football fans to go along with a bastardized notion of what an MVP is. So for you fantasy fans - argue all you want for Moss - but for us real fans, this is a non-issue.

 

[mb6592]

ask yourself these questions? Could the Pats go 19 and 0 without Moss, the answer is yes they already went 22 and 0, without Moss. Could the Pats win the Super Bowl without Moss. Yes for they already have, 3 times. Now reverse it and ask could this team without BRADY go 19 and 0 and win their fourth Super Bowl without BRADY. The answer to this last question is "MAYBE" while the answer to the first two questions is YES. So the MVP must be BRADY without question.

Exactly, duh. Would we have gone 22-0 w/o Brady (which we ALREADY did)? Would we have won 3 superbowls w/o Brady (which we ALREADY did)? Do these accomplishments speak to this years MVP - no, but they do speak to how valuable Brady has been/is to this team.