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Mock drafts - Rang and Reuter

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by dryheat44, Jan 19, 2010.

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  1. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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  2. BelichickFan

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    Given our situation at RDE it's difficult to argue with that. Seems a little high but probably not at DL always seem to go at the upper end of their bounds.
     
  3. ctpatsfan77

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    Looking at mayo's list, Bryan Bulaga is available in both drafts (he goes to GB at 23 in both), Terrence Cody isn't even a first rounder in either of them, and Dan Williams is still available in Reuter's (he goes one spot earlier in Rang's).
     
  4. Nonentity

    Nonentity Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Frankly I hate any draft that doesn't have a QB first off the board going to the Rams. The Rams have no quarterback. You cannot win in this league without someone at quarterback. You have more chance of finding a credible DT in the next round than you do a QB. Not going to happen.

    They have an ok offensive line, now draft a QB (Clausen or Bradford) and get working on that defense with every other pick.


    This is, of course, an assumption that they draft sanely. But there's only one team that I won't assume will do that...the Raiders.
     
  5. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can't agree with you, Uncle Heatster.

    First, I should not that Rob Rang has had Odrick to the Pats in his mock for at least 2 months. I don't think he's really looked at the team in detail and what our needs are. Reuter's drafts have changed as player ratings have changed. Rang's draft has a lot of guys listed in the first round who are very dubious 1st round picks at this point - Syd'Quan Thompson, Patrick Robinson, Brandon LaFell and Ryan Mathews, for example. All are much more likely to be 2nd rounders than 1st rounders right now. Not to mention Rutgers CB Devin McCourty at 19 - that's one from deep left field.

    Second, I'm not sure that Odrick is a true first round talent. I think he's a 2nd round pick as well. I admit I haven't watched a ton of him play, but from what I've seen he's a blue collar worker somewhat similar to Ty Warren. I think he would be a solid 3-4 DE for us, but I'm not sure that I would rate him over Arthur Jones or Corey Wootten. Rang has Wootten going #17 (which is very high for him right now; he has 1st round talent but has been inconsistent coming off injury, and most people consider him a 2nd/3rd rounder pick right now), but Reuter doesn't have him in the 1st round and neither has Jones in the 1st. I don't see a lot of motivation to jump for Odrick at 22 when there are other guys with comparable talent available. At the very least I'd trade back.

    Third, I really want a potential difference maker at 22, and I don't see that in Odrick. Again, I see a Ty Warren blue collar worker. We reached for Warren at 13, passing up guys like Troy Polamalu. Big mistake. I'd hate to pass up blue chip potential for red chip certainty. Brian Bulaga is available in both drafts, and he would be a stud RT for us. Move Vollmer to LT, trade Matt Light, and our OL would be immediately upgraded. Or put Bulaga at RG for a year, and then shift him to RT in 2011. Either way, I think he would make much more of a difference than Odrick.

    Other guys who are available in one or both of these drafts who I would prefer over Odrick include:

    -DT/DE Dan Williams, Tennessee. He goes 21 in Rang's draft, but 32 in Reuter's. Could play NT or 3-4 DE for us in the Haloti Ngata mold, and has much more upside than Odrick. Much more explosive and disruptive.

    - DT Terrance Cody, Alabama. Not in either guy's 1st round. Massive 3-4 DT who would draw double teams and shut down the run, providing insurance if Wilfork leaves and allowing Wilfork to play DE if he stays. I'd take Warren-Cody-Wilfork over Warren-Wilfork-Odrick any day.

    - OG Mike Iupati, Idaho. Going #31 in Reuter's draft, not in the 1st round in Rang's. Could possibly trade back a few spots and still get him. He would start day 1 at RG and upgrade our line. Light-Mankins-Koppen-Iupati-Vollmer would be a huge improvement. He may also be able to eventually move to RT.

    - DE/OLB Jason Pierre-Paul, USF. Not listed in either draft's 1st round. Has more upside than just about anyone in the draft. If the draft fall's this way, we could probably trade back a few spots and still get him.

    - DT/DE Brian Price, UCLA. Going #30 in Rang's draft, not in Reuter's 1st round (that's a joke). A bit short for 3-4 DE at 6-2, 300#, but a tremendous player. For all of those people lamenting that Suh is out of reach, here's the next best thing. He's better as a junior than Suh was, and if he stayed another year he would be a top 10, possible top 5 pick. I'd take him over Odrick any day. But I think he's a sure top-20, likely top-15 pick.

    I think any of those guys would bring more to our team in both the short and long term than Odrick. And I'm unimpressed by either draft in terms of who they include and don't include in the first round, especially Rang's draft.

    No, I'm afraid I don't agree.
     
  6. BelichickFan

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    You may not like Odrick, and I do think he's a reach there, but he clearly fills a need. As DE are so tough to get and Green is a UFA, a strong argument can be made that a 3-4 DE is our biggest need. It doesn't necessarily make it a good pick but I do think Rang has filled a team need here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2010
  7. mayoclinic

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    It's not that I don't like Odrick. He's a fine player and a solid red-chip prospect who would be a good 3-4 DE for us. If you want to take him at 42 or 47, fine. But I don't see him as enough of a talent to reach for at 22, and there are other options on the board that I prefer.

    Does he fill a need? Yes. But he's a big reach. Jarvis Green was no more than a journeyman for us this year. He may have been a starter in name, but Mike Wright was by far a bigger impact at DE for us. I'm fine with Wright-Wilfork-Warren as our starting lineup, and drafting a developmental 3-4 DE later on in the draft, such as Clifton Geathers or Brandon Deaderick. I think they would end up being significant upgrades from Green within a year or so.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  8. ctpatsfan77

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    OTOH, Green's apparent dream team may not be able to sign him (or trade for him) this year, so maybe he sticks around for another year or two. . . .
     
  9. mgteich

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    3-4 DE's are difficult to find. If we want someone to be an upgrade to Green for 2010, we may need to pay a bit more than 42, but I am fine with reaching a bit when we have such a serious need.

     
  10. BelichickFan

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    I was surprised to see Bruce Campbell available in both mocks, not even going in Rang's first round. Admittedly I don't totally get focused on the draft until now but Campbell would be very enticing to me to go with Vollmer. I also like Gresham a lot, he's there in the Rang draft; also Bulaga goes right after our pick in both mocks.
     
  11. mayoclinic

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    Campbell will be a top 15, probably a top 10 pick. Again, I think both mocks stink overall, which is why I hadn't posted them before. I don't think they are at all reasonable in where they project people. Both have Carlos Dunlap as a top 10 pick, and while he could still end up there I think that's a big reach right now.

    Campbell is a pure LT prospect, and a very good one. A bit raw, but tremendous feet, athleticism and upside. He totally shut down Ricky Sapp earlier this year before missing time with a minor foot injury. I'd be happy to take him at 22 as a LT and keep Vollmer at RT. It won't happen though, which is why I didn't even both to discuss him earlier in this thread.

    Bruce Campbell, Brian Bulaga, Brian Price, Dan Williams, Mike Iupati, Jason Pierre-Paul and Terrance Cody ... and we take Jared Odrick? Doesn't work for me. Sorry.
     
  12. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    While I greatly respect your evaluations and opinions, as good as Iupati may be, it's going to be very hard to justify taking a guard there over a defensive end. He'd better fall somewhere between John Hannah and Logan Mankins, talent-wise, and I'm not willing to put him there. I mean, as good as he's looked, it's still Idaho. Unless we lose Wilfork, and I can't imagine a scenario where we do, Williams doesn't do much for me either. I'm not sure he's better than Pryor. Cody I'm OK with, since we could move Wilfork to DE and have a dominant front 3. I like Pierre-Paul, but he's all potential, and clearly benefitted from playing with Selvie and it's hard to see him at #22. I'd certainly be cool with Campbell or Bulaga.

    Back to Iupati, I'd much, much rather take the best possible LB, DE, or OT there and take a guy like Petrus or Austin later in the draft.

    Granted, I love Oghobaase at DE as much as anyone not named Suh, and right now he's a mid-round guy, so there's some depth at DE.
     
  13. mayoclinic

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    I don't really want Iupati in the 1st round either. I'd much rather take a guard in the 2nd - Iupati if he falls, Vlad Ducasse, Maurkice Pouncey, or Mike Johnson. He would not be at the top of my list for 1st round choices, but I do consider him more of an elite OG prospect and differene maker than I consider Odrick to be at DE.

    NEPatriots and I have had this argument. He's had the Pats taking Iupati in the 1st in the past several drafts. I was the first person on this board to bring up Iupati as a possible target for the Pats, but I think that's too high for us to take an OG, unless we think he's John Hannah II.
     
  14. cstjohn17

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    Tell me if this sounds cliche and maybe I am being too harsh in my criticism but I would lean towards highest ranked* player from any positional group except (QB, K). All other units could be improved.

    Hopefully obvious holes are filled during free agency so the draft can be used to improve depth. If the Patriots go into April without at least a borderline starter at every position then the draft will be a disaster.

    Some free agents to consider:
    OL - I think they feel ok with the current group as long as Mankins remains an RFA**
    QB - Not a priority
    WR - all dpends on Moss, expect a Galloway, Caldwell, Stalworth, Gaffney type player to be signed**
    RB - top 3 starters return **
    TE - Sign any mid-tier veteran and the group is ok, pretty weak but ok

    DL - Warren, Wilfork, Wright can be starters, more depth needed, maybe Chris Canty from Dallas
    OLB - pretty much the worst unit in the NFL, at least one impact free agent is needed
    ILB - Mayo and Guyon are starters **
    CB - weak unit with top players as a UFA, signing a player like Bodden or of similar quality is a priority
    S - Top 4 safeties return, low priority in round 1

    * - biggest potential impact or highest potential of being a probowl player
    ** - Not saying these units cannot be improved but they can at least run a unit out there, albeit in some cases a very bad unit
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2010
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    spoken like patchick who (along with us) wanted us to draft Eric Wood in the 2nd

    As I get more into the analysis of this offseason, I too am coming to agree that we won't draft an OG in the first (no matter how well this worked when we drafted Manikins). BTW, Mike Johnson seems to be on his way up.

     
  16. mayoclinic

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    That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me. I'm touched. And I would have loved Eric Wood in the 2nd last year. If we had gotten Wood instead of Brace at 40, I would have been doing cartwheels.

    I very much want an OG in the 2nd round, and I want it to be one of 4 guys, at least one of whom will almost certainly be available: Mike Iupati, Vladimir Ducasse, Maurkice Pouncey and Mike Johnson, in roughly that order. I'm undecided between Ducasse and Pouncey - Pouncey has nice positional flexibility at center, Ducasse at RT. It depends what our priorities are and who is considered a better player and a better fit. I rate Johnson slightly behind the first 3, but I think he's very solid and I'd take him at 53 or anytime after, depending on who else is available. The only exception is that I would consider taking Brian Bulaga at 22, and using him at RG in 2010 with the plan to eventually move him to RT.

    I'd ideally like to see us get a "difference maker" in the 1st round. I've given my list in another thread - Rolando McClain (with a trade up), Joe Haden (if CB is a need, again, with a trade up), CJ Spiller, Carlos Dunlap, Dan Williams, Brian Bulaga. Get me any of those guys and I'm happy. Trade up from 42/44 and 47/8 to get me a 2nd one of those guys and I'm ecstatic. Then add one of those OGs at 53. Then preferably figure out a way to get into the 3rd round and pick up some high upside guys like Austen Mason, Jared Veldheer, or Dexter McCluster, bring in a couple of key FAs, and we'll have a team ready to seriously compete for the next 3-5 years.

    Now don't get practical and ask me how to do all of that. Just do it.
     
  17. mgteich

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    Part of my point was that Eric Wood WAS INDEED that difference maker. We needed a guard and center for the future. But the first was too early for us to draft a guard (who was not as good as hannah), so we passed on Eric Wood at 23 and then again at 26.

    Most of us wouldn't be discussing the OL if we had Wood on the squad instead of Ohrnberger.

     
  18. mayoclinic

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    Wood at 26 would have been a reasonable choice, and a solid one. I don't think anyone really expected Buffalo to take him at 28. I suspect he might have been the choice at 34 if he had lasted, but when he was gone at 28 and Delmas went at 33 BB reached for Patrick Chung.
     
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    With Mack long gone, it seemed quite possible that both Wood and Delmas would be gone by 34. presuming those were his top choices. Belichick had already lost the chance for Maclin and Harvin who were picked right before our pick at 23.

     
  20. Box_O_Rocks

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