McCaffrey joins Fournette, neither are playing in their school's Bowl games

[pdangle]

A smarter way to accomplish the same objective and avoid the negative scrutiny, just pull up early in the week one practice with a "minor hamstring injury", where although you gave it your best shot, "regretfully" you won't be able to play at 100%, so you made the "hard but smart decision" to sit, and not hurt your team's chance of winning by selfishly playing injured. As much as you want to "finish what we started", you made the hard decision that "the next man up" was the smarter football move for your team in this "important and history rich" Chick-fil-a bowl game.

 

[lamafist]

For starters, NFL players are contractually obligated to play in the playoffs.

Colleges could make mandatory parcipation in Bowl (or any other) games a condition of their scholarship, if they wanted... except then they'd be legally admitting that the scholarship is a form of payment for a players services, making the players employees, and thus entitled to organize and collectively bargain for fair compensation.

By insisting that the players are amateurs, the colleges are actively refusing any implied commitment to play on the part of the players.

As for the notion that a player who sits out a bowl game might be inclined to sit out the NFL playoffs in a contract year, the analogy doesn't really hold up. Every NFL playoff team is competing for the SB, compared to only 4 teams in 2 Bowl games out of 41.

The other 39 bowl games are essentially glorified consolation games, like having the losers of the divisional round play for 3rd place in the conference, and the 3rd place teams in each AFC division play the ones in the equivalent NFC division.

Even the NFL doesn't try to force its players to play extra meaningless games after the regular season is over. Not only would players entering free agency not consider it worth the risk, the coaches and owners wouldn't want to risk injury to players under contract.

Think about that for a second - the NCAA values its players' health and career longevity even less than the NFL!

 

[1960Pats]

Bennett and Hightower will both GET PAID extra (just like all the other players in the playoffs) to play in those games. All the student athletes get for playing in a Bowl game is some swag.

Then there are NBA players who get hundreds of millions but need to take games off during the season to rest up.

 

[1960Pats]

Just curious, the Cardinals and Rams play Week 17. How would you feel about a FA to be forgoing a relatively small paycheck to protect himself in a meaningless game ? Maybe Chandler Jones will do it

Can of worms - opened.

Speaking of the NBA.

 

[1960Pats]

Dear god seriously? I think everyone in this discussion knows the context, that there is one game left. If anyone doesn't, then they probably aren't smart enough to be typing letters into words on this thread. Mid-season, by which I mean, the season is not over. If anyone found that obfuscatory or tendentious, then my apologies.

Apology accepted.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Then there are NBA players who get hundreds of millions but need to take games off during the season to rest up.

Not that I watch the NBA, and I see the logic of resting your guys because the regular season is so long and pretty much everyone makes the playoffs ( of course the same could be said for hockey but you dint see Chara taking a night off). But imagine if your a Dad who plunked down all kinds of money for 4 seats to take your kids to see Lebron play, and when Cleveland comes to town, Lebron doesn't even make the flight.

 

[1960Pats]

Not that I watch the NBA, and I see the logic of resting your guys because the regular season is so long and pretty much everyone makes the playoffs ( of course the same could be said for hockey but you dint see Chara taking a night off). But imagine if your a Dad who plunked down all kinds of money for 4 seats to take your kids to see Lebron play, and when Cleveland comes to town, Lebron doesn't even make the flight.

Exactly. They're really saying screw the fans, I'm tired.

I can't imagine players like Brady, Russell or Orr taking time off because they had a tough stretch of games.

 

[meatface]

They can all afford it. If they get hurt the premium comes out of the payment. If they don't get hurt it comes out of the contract. The premium is generally not paid up front.

maybe for the guys who are viewed as top talents

 

[Nikolai]

Yep, NFL players are contractually obligated to play. There are concrete detriments in place when players quit on their team, including possibly forfeiting bonus pay.

There isn't an NFL equivalent to the Joe's Autoshop Bowl. The closest example I could think of is a hypothetical matchup between the Browns and Jaguars to see who really IS the worst last place team in the AFC, or a matchup between two first-round playoff losers for purple 5th place ribbons.

 

[Jack Handy]

They accepted a scholarship to play the full season and then they quit before the last game. I understand the NCAA is flawed particularly for pro bound athletes, but I think it shows selfishness and lack of character. They signed up for it, have a lot of people counting on them, and then walked away.

So a player (say Brady or Julian) should never skip a pro bowl game because not playing would demonstrate a lack of character? Now that I think about it Tom has really demonstrated his selfish side because he doesn't even need the money.

 

[BelichickFan]

So a player (say Brady or Julian) should never skip a pro bowl game because not playing would demonstrate a lack of character? Now that I think about it Tom has really demonstrated his selfish side because he doesn't even need the money.

To compare this to the pro bowl is missing the point entirely.

 

[scott99]

They accepted a scholarship to play the full season and then they quit before the last game. I understand the NCAA is flawed particularly for pro bound athletes, but I think it shows selfishness and lack of character. They signed up for it, have a lot of people counting on them, and then walked away.

Imagine if the colleges asked for their scholarship money back (prorated for the time they played) ? I think players would quickly change their minds about not playing in bowl games.

Personally, I'm not a fan of these guys sitting out. I understand it, but bottom line, they're going to college to get an education, and their physical talents in sports gave them a free ride. Now they are holding themselves out of something that gave them their free ride in college. I guess I'm too old fashioned, but if I was a GM, I wouldn't draft either of these guys, be worried about them being dependable.

 

[Jack Handy]

To compare this to the pro bowl is missing the point entirely.

How? Which is:

played after the regular season is over;
Does not count towards the standings
if the player gets injured they run a huge financial risk;

 

[BradyFTW!]

ohhh $32,000!!!!!!! Said a player in a contract year about to get 10-30 million guarenteed, EVER.

Well the core of the issue is that these guys aren't paid at all. Being underpaid is one thing, being unpaid is another IMO. If the NCAA not only won't pay these guys, but won't allow anyone else to pay them either, then to hell with all of that. I wouldn't jeopardize my future paid career in the name of enriching a bunch of guys who have prohibited me from ever getting any kind of a cut.

Any player who looks at the NCAA as a launchpad to a future real career and nothing more will find no objection from me. If you want people to risk their future earnings on your behalf, then you should probably pay them. In any other field that's just common sense.

 

[Jack Handy]

Imagine if the colleges asked for their scholarship money back (prorated for the time they played) ? I think players would quickly change their minds about not playing in bowl games.

Personally, I'm not a fan of these guys sitting out. I understand it, but bottom line, they're going to college to get an education, and their physical talents in sports gave them a free ride. Now they are holding themselves out of something that gave them their free ride in college. I guess I'm too old fashioned, but if I was a GM, I wouldn't draft either of these guys, be worried about them being dependable.

For them to play in the bowl game is beyond stupid and would be an insult to their college education. Options

• Skip a meaningless game and make millions or

• Take the risk. If you get injured at least there is the BS in communications which will help you land a similar paying job.

Oh by the way the school won't pay for your healthcare if it is needed beyond the time in the hospital, can drop your scholarship for that last year, your tutors are gone, move out of the good dorms, you probably didn't have time to do a semester in another country or do work study ...............

 

[chasa]

Well the core of the issue is that these guys aren't paid at all. Being underpaid is one thing, being unpaid is another IMO. If the NCAA not only won't pay these guys, but won't allow anyone else to pay them either, then to hell with all of that. I wouldn't jeopardize my future paid career in the name of enriching a bunch of guys who have prohibited me from ever getting any kind of a cut.

Any player who looks at the NCAA as a launchpad to a future real career and nothing more will find no objection from me. If you want people to risk their future earnings on your behalf, then you should probably pay them. In any other field that's just common sense.

They don't get paid cash, but they do get something.

1.) They get a world class education, for free.
2.)They are investing in themselves long term, so while they are not able to sell things while in college, they are able to collect and sell once they graduate.

How do you manage how much these college players should get paid? How to do manage a college salary cap? Soon as you start down the slope of "oh well pay you this much" players are going to eventually say nah we want more.

if they don't like playing, in exchange for an education, and the ability to sell memorabilia after they are done playing, They can take the same road all us un-privileged people did and go into debt to get a college degree, or in a lot of cases, just not go to college and work hard to get a decent job.

I'm not going to feel bad for a kid on a athletic free ride, because hes not getting paid. And if that kid wants to not live up to his agreement and sit out the most important game, I WILL feel negatively towards them.

 

[BelichickFan]

How? Which is:

played after the regular season is over;
Does not count towards the standings
if the player gets injured they run a huge financial risk;

The bowl game is a game with their team mates, that affects the final standings, sometimes the coach's status, is the last game many team mates will ever play and is a big deal to the fans.

The pro bowl isn't even with their team.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I guarantee you won't hear a peep from teammates or coaches bc both the unquestioned leaders of their team and two of the most professional prospects coming out. Nobody works harder than McCaffrey and LF7 on their squad to prepare themselves for practice, game and season.

This is such a non issue it's not funny.

 

[bbobbo]

They can all afford it. If they get hurt the premium comes out of the payment. If they don't get hurt it comes out of the contract. The premium is generally not paid up front.

the athlete may not have to pay out of pocket up front because they're allowed to take out loans to pay the premiums, using their future earnings as collateral. but make no mistake, the insurance companies get paid up front.

the insurance companies do everything they can not to pay any claims. according to this article, since the Exceptional Student-Athlete Disability Insurance began in 1990, fewer than a dozen claims have been paid out:

Leonard Fournette's $10M policies and the unregulated world of player protection

The proof is in the numbers. The NCAA began sponsoring career-ending insurance in 1990. In the 26-year existence of what is now called Exceptional Student-Athlete Disability Insurance, only a handful of athletes have ever collected.

"Total disability?" asked Juanita Sheely, the NCAA's director of travel and insurance. "More than two and less than a dozen [have been paid] that I know of."

Projected out since 1990, that's approximately 2,000 policyholders. The number of claims is unknown, according the NCAA.

even fewer claims for Loss of Draft Value policies have been paid:

What is commonly called Loss of Draft Value insurance (LOV) has sprung up in the industry as an insurance rider. It is not overseen by the NCAA. It is more an organic evolution of the insurance market to sell more policies.

Only two players have collected on one of those policies. Former Oregon cornerback Ifo Ekpre-Olomu was the latest back in October.

schools can also pay for this insurance out of their Student Assistance Funds. basically it's a cheap way for them to get star players to stay in school for another year:

Insurance Doesn’t Eliminate Risk for Top College Athletes Who Forgo Draft

Entering his senior year at Texas A&M, Ogbuehi was set to move from right tackle to left tackle, a position so vital that there is a best-selling book and a hit movie about it called “The Blind Side.” The Aggies’ starting left tackle in 2012 was drafted second over all and signed a contract guaranteeing $21.2 million over four years. Their starting left tackle in 2013 was drafted sixth over all and signed for $16.4 million.

Ogbuehi could have entered the professional ranks after last season, and he probably would have been drafted around 10th, according to Gil Brandt, a former Dallas Cowboys player personnel executive and a draft analyst.

But Ogbuehi elected to return for his senior year, and shortly after, the ESPN draft expert Mel Kiper Jr. said Ogbuehi could go as high as second over all in this year’s draft. Ogbuehi was reassured, he said, by Texas A&M’s offer to buy him loss-of-value insurance, which aims to restore likely future earnings that are lost to injury.

Asked in October if the insurance had proved decisive, Ogbuehi, who received a bachelor’s degree in August, said that it had. Without it, he said, he “most likely would have gone to the draft.”

But Ogbuehi tore his anterior cruciate ligament in the Liberty Bowl in December, and last week he was selected 21st, by the Cincinnati Bengals. Under the N.F.L.’s rigid collective bargaining agreement, that will probably reduce his contract to about $8 million in guaranteed money over four years, according to the website Over the Cap.

Still, Ogbuehi does not stand to collect on his insurance, his agent, Ryan Williams, said. Because most income is taxable but the insurance’s benefits are not, a player typically must fall precipitously in the draft for the policy to take effect.

 

[lamafist]

Imagine if the colleges asked for their scholarship money back (prorated for the time they played) ? I think players would quickly change their minds about not playing in bowl games.

Read my above post. As soon as you start suggesting that the players owe anything to the colleges in return for the scholarships, you blow up the NCAA's flimsy pretext for calling the players "amateurs."

If the colleges tried to recoup scholarship money if the player sits out a game, they would be treating the scholarships as payments conditional on the players providing a service -- that would be legally acknowledging that the players are not amateurs but in fact employees of the colleges, and entitled to all the rights afforded members of the American workforce, including the right to organize and collectively bargain for fair compensation.

They don't get paid cash, but they do get something.

1.) They get a world class education, for free.
2.)They are investing in themselves long term, so while they are not able to sell things while in college, they are able to collect and sell once they graduate.

How do you manage how much these college players should get paid? How to do manage a college salary cap? Soon as you start down the slope of "oh well pay you this much" players are going to eventually say nah we want more.

In order for the NCAA system to be legal, the scholarships have to be considered, technically, as gifts, with nothing needed to be provided in return. Theoretically, the kid could show up and decide not to even join the football team -- and get a free semester of college before the school just happened to decide it didn't want to give this kid any more gifts. The illusion that this doesn't boil down to a de facto quid pro quo relationship is the pretense on which the NCAA relies.

Your premise that the scholarships are a form of payment or compensation is incompatible with the NCAA's pleasant fiction of amateurism. If the kids are getting something in return for playing, than they are employees, and entitled to negotiate for a fair wage. All of the questions you ask become NCAA's problems to figure out.

(Oh, and let's not kid ourselves about the world class education part -- being a top tier Division I football player is a more-than-full-time job. Vying to establish yourself as a talent worthy of being one of ~250 guys a year who get drafted into the NFL is a year-round full time job.)