Kraft is becoming an embarassment every time he opens his mouth

[Gumby]

The second link from APTA said: "Researchers analyzed statistics from the NCAA Injury Surveillance Program (ISP) and found that between the 2009-2010 and 2013-2014 academic years, the overall SRC rate was 4.47 per 10,000 athlete exposures, or about 10,560 SRCs annually."

I haven't performed a careful analysis of this literature, and I'm not a concussion expert by any means. However, off the top of my head, it would seem that analysis of 10,560 concussions would seem to me to be a fairly decent sample size. And I'm not sure what you mean by the criteria being flawed.

Could you elaborate on why you feel the statistics from this study are worthless, and the sample size and criteria flawed?

Not sure what the other poster's reason was, but I would think any statistical analysis that doesnt control the initial diagnosis and reporting stds is flawed, because it is well known that women are much more likely to go to drs and report injuries/ill health than men by factors of anywhere from 2x-4x.

So just because their 'reported' nmbrs are similar, does that mean anything or not? Devil in details.

 

[IllegalContact]

Because the sports are seriously flawed in terms of reporting concussions and self reporting is notoriously flawed. I'll go back to the Junior Seau example as there was a player who clearly suffered from repeated concussions and never reported so much as one. I do think that an effort is being made to identify and evaluate concussions on a more systematic basis but the history of it would suggest they are still a long ways off, and the more physical sports will continue to have underreported concussion issues as competitors don't want to come off the field and will always maintain they are good to go.

so players of other sports don't underreport concussions?

so other than your claim that the reports are baseless, you have nothing to add?

one guy in one sport? concussions don't go unreported in other sports? there's no relevance in the data of identifiable concussions in comparison to unreported ones? there's no chance that the ratios are the same?

sounds like you think the NFL is the only place where this **** happens

 

[Galeb]

so players of other sports don't underreport concussions?

so other than your claim that the reports are baseless, you have nothing to add?

one guy in one sport? concussions don't go unreported in other sports? there's no relevance in the data of identifiable concussions in comparison to unreported ones? there's no chance that the ratios are the same?

sounds like you think the NFL is the only place where this **** happens

Given the radically different socialization of girls and boys, it is highly likely that females are far more likely to report injury. Females are encouraged to share their feelings while men are encouraged to be stoic and tough.

 

[zydecochris]

Because the sports are seriously flawed in terms of reporting concussions and self reporting is notoriously flawed. I'll go back to the Junior Seau example as there was a player who clearly suffered from repeated concussions and never reported so much as one. I do think that an effort is being made to identify and evaluate concussions on a more systematic basis but the history of it would suggest they are still a long ways off, and the more physical sports will continue to have underreported concussion issues as competitors don't want to come off the field and will always maintain they are good to go.

Well, I have to admit that is a pretty good point, probably college football players are much less likely to self-report and a football training staff is more likely to throw a woozy football player back on the field than would be the case with women's soccer, for example.

I guess I felt that the take-home message from the studies was that women's sports related concussions are much more frequent than I would have expected. There was some speculation in the articles that it could be due to women's smaller bodies and much weaker necks, that would make sense.

Of course, even if that is the case (women' college sport related concussions being higher than expected) that of course does not excuse the NFL as these are men banging heads for years and years in the NFL, and moreover there have been numerous instances of serious cognitive damage and lives lost (unlike women's college soccer).

 

[IllegalContact]

Not sure what the other poster's reason was, but I would think any statistical analysis that doesnt control the initial diagnosis and reporting stds is flawed, because it is well known that women are much more likely to go to drs and report injuries/ill health than men by factors of anywhere from 2x-4x.

So just because their 'reported' nmbrs are similar, does that mean anything or not? Devil in details.

the reports were based on NCAA......same concussion protocols across gender lines......has nothing to do with whether the player actually goes to the doctor as in order to play in the NCAA, you agree to be subject to all of its protocols

the same lack of understanding occurs across all sports......hell, concussions happen without displaying any symptoms at all......the general point is that concussions happen in all contact sports as well as some non-contact ones........divers have gotten concussions simply from hitting the water

the main point of this is the manner in which the NFL is handling the situation since in this instance, there's a ton of money at stake.

as long as guys like deandre levy keep expressing their opinions, there's no point to make other than the actual point that the sport should not be played at all due to its inherent dangers

 

[IllegalContact]

Given the radically different socialization of girls and boys, it is highly likely that females are far more likely to report injury. Females are encouraged to share their feelings while men are encouraged to be stoic and tough.

again, the NCAA follows its own concussion protocol.......they have the same standard for checking potential concussions as they step of the field......

I also think you are ridiculously misunderstanding the competitive nature of female NCAA sports.......sounds like you're stuck back in the day where boys play rough and girls play with dolls....there are no rhonda rouseys in your world, right?

girls play nice

 

[ReverendMaynard]

Not sure what the other poster's reason was, but I would think any statistical analysis that doesnt control the initial diagnosis and reporting stds is flawed, because it is well known that women are much more likely to go to drs and report injuries/ill health than men by factors of anywhere from 2x-4x.

So just because their 'reported' nmbrs are similar, does that mean anything or not? Devil in details.

I agree with this and was surprised that reporting bias was not mentioned at all in the report. Made me seriously question the conclusions of said report, as it is such an obvious flaw in the data.

 

[zydecochris]

Not sure what the other poster's reason was, but I would think any statistical analysis that doesnt control the initial diagnosis and reporting stds is flawed, because it is well known that women are much more likely to go to drs and report injuries/ill health than men by factors of anywhere from 2x-4x.

So just because their 'reported' nmbrs are similar, does that mean anything or not? Devil in details.

Also a good point (as was Ivan's). I guess my reflex is that more data and more scientific analysis, even though not complete, helps to shed light on reality. If the sample size is limited, you confirm the study with a larger sample size.

However, I admit that my experience is with research in the "hard" sciences (I'm a physicist). I guess the reporting of concussions may still have significant subjectivity to it until a truly accurate non-biased test for concussions is developed (perhaps based on sophisticated analysis of eye response and movement).

 

[Ivan]

so is your opinion

the numbers bear out in government research

A 7-year review of men’s and women’s ice hockey injuries in the NCAA

Great analogy. Any study as accurate as my opinion is a great study indeed...............

 

[IllegalContact]

Great analogy. Any study as accurate as my opinion is a great study indeed...............

you should just admit that your claim has no basis other than to serve your preconceived notion

 

[Ivan]

you should just admit that your claim has no basis other than to serve your preconceived notion

Any study that relies upon self reporting is inherently flawed, and you can't get accurate concussion data when many never acknowledged even getting them. If they want to condition it by acknowledging they are only going upon reported data that's fine but in the instance of concussions it is well known that manyhave them and never acknowledge them. So the basis of my claim is the reality that many never report their concussions, and many concussions often go underreported because people don't even realize they have one. If you don't realize this dynamic you really don't know what you are talking about.

 

[IllegalContact]

Any study that relies upon self reporting is inherently flawed, and you can't get accurate concussion data when many never acknowledged even getting them. If they want to condition it by acknowledging they are only going upon reported data that's fine but in the instance of concussions it is well known that many hours then and never acknowledged them. So the basis of my claim is the reality that many never report their concussions, and Miller concussions often go underreported because people don't even realize they have one.

which may increase the margin of error without invalidating the numbers

it does not provide the basis to have people believe what they want

 

[Ivan]

so players of other sports don't underreport concussions?

so other than your claim that the reports are baseless, you have nothing to add?

one guy in one sport? concussions don't go unreported in other sports? there's no relevance in the data of identifiable concussions in comparison to unreported ones? there's no chance that the ratios are the same?

sounds like you think the NFL is the only place where this **** happens

I'm starting to believe you have deep seeded comprehension issues, reading in particular.

 

[IllegalContact]

I'm starting to believe you have deep seeded comprehension issues, reading in particular.

of course you do

 

[Galeb]

again, the NCAA follows its own concussion protocol.......they have the same standard for checking potential concussions as they step of the field......

I also think you are ridiculously misunderstanding the competitive nature of female NCAA sports.......sounds like you're stuck back in the day where boys play rough and girls play with dolls....there are no rhonda rouseys in your world, right?

If you think the players' willingness to divulge injuries doesn't affect the statistics because of league protocols, I have a bridge to sell you.

I never even implied that women can't be as competitive or tough as men. In fact, I believe that women, physiologically, have more of a capacity for pain tolerance than men, which at that level plays a significant role in playing through injury.

I was pointing out that the dramatic difference in socialization is likely to have an effect on the rate at which players report perceived injuries. Reporting an injury doesn't make you less tough, and with today's knowledge, reporting a concussion is clearly the wiser decision. If anything, it is more of a knock on men's socialization than an knock on the socialization of women. If you need to twist that into some male chauvinist, barbaric viewpoint to strengthen your argument, it says a lot about your argument.

Whether we want it to or not, our socialization plays a huge role in who we are. The dramatic difference in the way boys and girls are razed results in significant differences in behavioral tendencies.

PS. I once dated a girl that could strike me out 90% of the time with a softball. Women can be as competitive as any man, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[XLIX]

Study Looks at Concussion Rates Among NCAA Sports

The studies you quoted look exclusively at college athletics, from Division I to Division III. It's laughable how you think that those statistics are relevant to concussions in the National Football League. Division III football is barely a step above high school level.

We are talking about the National Football League in this thread, not Amherst and Framingham State.

 

[Ivan]

easy there, tiger

Kraft did acknowledge he screwed up

and anyone who is not a village idiot knew at that moment that he didn't have any options....which is why he admitted he screwed up

real simple.......the hating is baseless and is only heaped on Kraft because blaming the rest of the NFL owners and commissioner is even more pointless

what did I say about Jonathan?

You don't even know what your own thread was about?


You started a thread called " Bad news for Kraft haters." And then claimed "now they will have to hate the son as well..."


The only problem was that in the lengthy thread that followed no one went after Jonathan Kraft because their real issue wasn't that they didn't sue to try and get the picks back, it was with Robert Kraft going out of his way to tell everyone over and over how great he thinks Goodell is, otherwise your thread would have reflected the same anger at Jonathan as they did with Robert, as he made it clear there was nothing they could do, and most realize that.

 

[IllegalContact]

If you think whether the players' willingness to divulge their injury doesn't affect the statistics because of league protocols, I have a bridge to sell you.

I never even implied that women can't be as competitive or tough as men. In fact, I believe that women, physiologically, have more of a capacity for pain tolerance than men, which at that level plays a significant role in playing through injury.

I was pointing out that the dramatic difference in socialization is likely to have an effect on the rate at which players report perceived injuries. Reporting an injury doesn't make you less tough, and with today's knowledge, reporting a concussion is clearly the wiser decision. If anything, it is more of a knock on men's socialization than an knock on the socialization of women. If you need to twist that into some male chauvinist, barbaric viewpoint to strengthen your argument, it says a lot your argument.

Whether we want it to be or not, our socialization players a huge role in who we are. The dramatic difference in the way boys and girls are razed result in significant differences in behavioral tendencies.

I'm not turning it into anything other than the sport.....you are relying on stereotypical BS which is very innacurate

I've coached girls/women at a reasonably high level in sports.........I can tell you much of what you say is ********.......athletically competitive people are more similar than different when it comes to gender.....in fact, some of the women are nastier than any men

 

[IllegalContact]

The studies you quoted look exclusively at college athletics, from Division I to Division III. It's laughable how you think that those statistics are relevant to concussions in the National Football League. Division III football is barely a step above high school level.

We are talking about the National Football League in this thread, not Amherst and Framingham State.

so the laws of physics and biology change?

you're actually helping me make my point about concussions in general........that they happen in all contact sports...........somebody falling and hitting their head (with helmet) on the ice in hockey is simply a tougher impact on the head when it comes to concussions than anything in football

the whole point is that singling out NFL football when it comes to concussions is flat out stupid

 

[IllegalContact]

You don't even know what your own thread was about?


You started a thread called " Bad news for Kraft haters." And then claimed "now they will have to hate the son as well..."


The only problem was that in the lengthy thread that followed no one went after Jonathan Kraft because their real issue wasn't that they didn't sue to try and get the picks back, it was with Robert Kraft going out of his way to tell everyone over and over how great he thinks Goodell is, otherwise your thread would have reflected the same anger at Jonathan as they did with Robert, as he made it clear there was nothing they could do, and most realize that.

of course not........you missed the point.......fact is that Jonathan could say the exact same thing as Bob and the haters will all still hate the same way


carry on