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Junior Seau had CTE

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by brady199, Jan 10, 2013.

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  1. brady199

    brady199 Rookie

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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  2. PatsDeb

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    Just terrible for Seau and his family, and not surprising after they described what he was like after football after he died. I hope the NFL can find a way to protect players heads and keep the game great.
  3. serifyn

    serifyn Rookie

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    Brain Disease and Damage is a terrible thing; even if Seau 'got help' it wouldn't have made him feel much better. He couldn't remember anyone's name and was always in a permanent state of depression, sad as it is, he probably saw suicide as the only way out, once his career in football was over, so was his life.
  4. Tunescribe

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    So damn sad. I wish he could've been a Patriot much longer.
  5. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rookie

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    It really sucks seeing what brain damage can do to a guy that seemed like a legitimately great guy on and off the field.
  6. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    I'm not at all surprised. So sad for the whole family. There has got to be way to make this game safer.
  7. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    After a 20 year career in the league not to mention his college and HS days it would be astonishing if he didn't have CTE. The league is doing the best it can in hindsight. Time for the players and fans to embrace that. It's not going to be enough until the culture changes, and even then to some extent some of it may be unavoidable given the nature of the sport. Players and their representatives continue to fight anything they perceive as threatening or limiting their careers. There remains a mental health issue afoot here that drives not only the aftermath in some cases but drives some to hang on recklessly and absorb ever increasing damage in an increasing state of denial. We saw an example of that just this weekend.
  8. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is, obviously it won't help those at the end of their careers or previous generations who played with inferior helmets. But, the league could force the players to wear helmets rated high in concussion testing i.e. Riddell Rev 360 and Rev Speed and Rawlings new helmet or Shutts Ion 4D. Or better yet the players could actually choose to wear them. Instead many players choose to wear an inferior helmet with a traditional look because they don't like the way they look in the newer style helmets.

    I coach/help run an AYF youth football team in Virginia and our Riddell rep also fits incoming rookies for several NFL teams and he says that they give a briefing on the helmets and the benefits of using a highly rated helmet etc... and he says every time a player chooses the old school helmet it is do to how he looks in the mirror.

    I personally bought my son, a freshman in high school, a Rev 360. It is the highest rated helmet on the market at this moment. It wasn't cheap, but if it prevents just one concussion it is worth every penny.

    So IMO, if the NFL and NFLPA are serious about reducing concussions then requiring the players to use the best helmets available is a no brainer. And for this reason, I don't take either side serious when they talk about player safety.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  9. Darrone

    Darrone Rookie

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    This is garbage. The league "is doing the best it can" is crap. The league has put this problem entirely on the players. It claims these "big hits" and "illegal hits" are the cause, when every bit of research on CTE says otherwise. Major concussions are bad, but CTE is most commonly linked to REPETITIVE and SUB-CONCUSSIVE injuries. It's the frequent hits to the head that are causing this, not James Harrison launching off his feet.

    Hines Ward said it best when he was talking about Brian Westbrook : The league gives guys every incentive to claim they don't have head trauma. They give them colorful euphemisms like "he got his bell run" to understate the fact that these guys are killing themselves for our entertainment. The guys that do come forward, admit they have been concussed are labeled "injury risk" or a "concussion risk", and they suddenly drop is value. They lose there paycheck.

    There are plenty of ways to make the game safer, the ones the NFL has chosen are the opposite of safer:

    Add 2 more games to the season
    Require players to sit out 1 game after a major concussion (giving them every reason to lie)
    Determining what a concussion is on a field sideline
    Not releasing concussion statistics

    Hell, we don't even know if they are doing a good job, because they won't tell us how many concussions are being suffered. The league is doing what the Goodell run NFL does best: blame the players, make meaningless rule changes, and spend tons of money telling everyone your fixing the problem.
  10. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is not unexpected I don't think given everything he had to live for. Healthy children and great family, I met his brother and nephew last year at the AYF national championships. His nephew is a hell of a QB who is a freshman this year. JR also ran Successful business etc... Depression had to play a huge part in his suicide and he really didn't have anything to be depressed about, from an outsiders point of view.

    Sad for him and his family. Hopefully science and technology can catch up to the problem and help with detection especially early detection.
  11. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That is a very short sighted argument. And the bolded statement is completely counter productive to your entire rant.

    How are you going to obsolve the players of all responsibility and claim the league isn't doing enough and then when the league mandates sitting out at least one game (a very reasonable decision) you claim that it forces the players to lie. Well which is it should the league let a concussed player go right back in and play at his will and be responsible for any further injury? Or should they force the player to sit out until cleared by the doctors to ensure he is as healthy as possible? You can't have it both ways. And until the players themselves take safety seriously I don't see how any one can hold the league responsible.

    Here is a concept: how about the players wear the best equipment available to them. Hell how about starting with wearing all of the basic equipment i.e. a 7 piece pad set. Hard for the players to have any credibility when they routinely choose not wear the most basic of equipment to protect themselves.
  12. Whorod

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    He had evidence of CTE. What do you mean he didn't have anything to be depressed about? He probably woke up days wondering where he was, forgetting names he knew just moments earlier, and would later remember hours into the day. Getting lost on short runs to the store, and not being able to find your car in parking lots, or know your way out of a parking lot you just drove into. He had plenty to be depressed about. Both severe depression and dementia shrink the brain. He very likely suffered from both. Wondering how long before you are a burden on your family and children, is plenty to be depressed about. We can't imagine the suffering these poor men go through at the end.

    ****Sorry missed the "outsiders point of view" part of your comment.********
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  13. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I meant to put in there that it had to be chemical or disease related, because he didn't appear to be going through anything in life that would cause normal (maybe not the right word) temporary depression.
  14. Darrone

    Darrone Rookie

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    Certainly not absolving the players of all responsibility, but let's be serious, they enter the league around 22, have a massive ammount of money thrown at them, and then you want them to consider their health at 40 over their next paycheck? They have some blame yes, but that's pretty clear exploitation.

    And quiet honestly: the decision shouldn't be made by the players. It should be made by doctors, and it shouldn't be made on the sidelines.

    Trust me, I went to medical school, the league is beautifully skewing things in their favor. For starters, they do the test on the sideline of an NFL STADIUM, its the opposite of "ideal conditions", considering you are looking for auditory and visual responses from a player who is surrounded by thousands of screaming people. Do it in the locker room.

    Second, the NFL uses the SCAT-2 test for concussions: a test designed for major head trauma from car accidents, not sports injuries. It's more similar to a DUI test. If a player is able to blink on his own, he is able to pass about 1/5 of the test. A players with a sports concussion could easily pass this test. Want a good article on it? here you go: Why the NFL Sucks at Testing for Concussions | Playbook | Wired.com

    Non-guaranteed contracts: Teams have the ability to cut a concussion risk at any time. Tell me how that isn't an incentive to not have a concussion?

    Lastly - and this is my key point that cannot be argued with - we can't judge the NFL because they won't release concussion statistics. Until they do, we have to assume the worst. You don't hide improvements, you hide shortcomings.
  15. fxkane

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    I find your two posts to be incredibly praiseworthy and informed.

    It is absolute hell to have the condition that drove Seau to suicide.

    One redeeming thing--his sons have dropped football.
  16. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ok that is a cleaner argument. I'm not saying blame the 22 year old. I'm saying blame the NFLPA for not looking out for their own. Players should be given the latest and greatest equipment with the best technology. And the players should be required to wear it. They should not be allowed to wear inferior head gear and they should not have the option to not wear lower pads. The NFL is trying to implement a rule requiring the players to wear lower pads next year and they are getting resistance from the players. In addition every player should have to wear a mouthpiece.

    Where its murky for me is: For all I know the NFL tried to put these rules in place during previous CBA negotiations or on a sidebar with the NFLPA and encountered resistance.

    For me, I can't take any argument against the NFL serious until the players (NFLPA) start to put their own health first.

    I personally don't have any experience with concussion testing, my son's high school requires that all students take a computer based concussion test prior to participating in any sports. They do it for baseline purposes. I'm not sure what they use, but you have peaked my curiousity, I think I will look into it.

    I agree a quick sideline test is not the best that can be done. However, to my limited knowledge about concussions, doctors seem to be better informed about the symptoms and if they have the slightest doubt they should shut the player down.

    And yes I understand the players desire to not be labelled or released. But again that is a personal decision the player has to make. If they are concerned about their health then don't play football. If you want the money then play and live with the risk and consequences. Players have left for health reasons early in their career without making big money prior to retiring. I realize it is a tough decision but one that is ultimately the player's.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  17. BananaRepublican

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    I think it's whistling Dixie to think that technology is the answer. If they have developed helmets for 100 years and still don't have it right then why would anybody buy that line of thinking?

    Actually many of you probably know that the old rawhide helmets were better than today's fashionable ones. They've gone backward.

    Roids have caused the players to go backward with injuries too. Bigger and faster is not better except in a very limited context - collisions. And we are talking about the effect of collisions.

    It's a perfect storm: Bigger and faster plus inferior helmets. It's a wonder that anybody is left standing. Hey, why not have an extra two games a year says the owners. Yeh, they are concerned.
  18. mojocaster.com

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    Very sad indeed. RIP, Junior. I hope you found some peace.
  19. Sicilian

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    You may have more technical info on this than you're letting on, but is it that the old helmets were better, or is it that players were more hesitant to hit someone full speed with the crown of their helmet while wearing a leather hood?
  20. BradyFTW!

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    One of the least surprising headlines that I've ever read, unfortunately.
  21. BradyFTW!

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    It's a well-documented phenomenon; you see it with safety features in cars, too. As people feel safer, they act more recklessly. If players played the way that they play today, but wore rawhide helmets, you'd see deaths on the field.

    Also, the assertion that we've "gone backward" is incorrect anyway:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_issues_in_American_football#Statistics
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  22. Sicilian

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    That's my thought as well. The way he phrased it made it sound like the technology itself was inferior which didn't sound right to me. So I was wondering if he had seen a scientific study comparing the old and new helmets, or if it was only based on stats for number of concussions.
  23. BradyFTW!

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  24. ctpatsfan77

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    I'd agree in the sense of "I wish he had spent more of his career in New England."

    If you mean, "I wish he'd been able to play beyond when he did," I'd say "no."

    I honestly wonder how much worse his time in NE made his condition; it certainly couldn't have improved the CTE itself—although, honestly, it might have staved off the depression.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  25. MoLewisrocks

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    Therein lies the conundrum. The game is what it is. Controlled violence. They can try to make it safer, but it will never be entirely safe. And contracts will never be entirely guaranteed, not that doing so would guarantee anything more than some players grappling with the decision to walk away from guaranteed money sooner... It all comes down to players making the decision to do the right thing, be that reporting injuries, working to reduce them by altering their technique and mindset, or walking away before too much damage has been done.

    Bernie Kosar said in an interview today he has been battling many of the same symptons Junior experienced, but the difference is he has sought treatment and thinks he has found one that for him is improving his situation. Junior's tragic demise was as much about the culture as the violence. He couldn't seek help. Not every player who experiences CTE or even struggles with concurrent mental health issues opts to end his life.
  26. Bella*chick

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    After 17 years in the league as a linebacker, I wonder what Ray Lewis will be like in a few years.
  27. DocHoliday

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    I want to see what effect recent safety rules from the last decade have before changing the game further
  28. rlcarr

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    There are two problems. One is outright concussions and "jack 'em up" head shots, which is what the recent changes are trying to mitigate.

    The other problem is potentially much worse for football -- the data increasingly shows that repetitive head impacts, even if well below the concussion threshold (like in line play), also results in brain damage.

    So the "recent safety rules" will help with the killshots, but they won't do anything to help with the second problem.
  29. DocHoliday

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    Someone suggested bringing the lines closer to each other to force them into wrestling maneuvers rather than crashing repeatedly at sub-concussive levels. The idea is that with less space to build up momentum, you can't attack with force and must instead engage with finesse.

    On one hand it would probably hamper the pass rush somewhat but having more wrestling skill would be incredibly interesting.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  30. Brady_to_Moss

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    Football is going to kill more people than you think
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