Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training camp

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

AJ,

I think BB & the Pats have faired pretty well acquiring guys "past their prime" since Belichik came here, don't you?

I can think of Corey Dillon, Junior Seau, Roman Pfifer, Anthony Pleasant, Christian Fauria, David Patten, Brian Cox, Antowain Smith, Otis Smith...should I go on?

I don't think Jason Taylor would be any different.

There is another list of guys past their prime that didnt work out too. But if you look at that list, which ones did we spend big money for that we had players of the caliber of Thomas and Vrabel at the same position?

Sure, taking a shot at an aging vet is part of building a team. But look at your list. I see one player on that list who played as well after coming here as they played before coming here, and thats Phifer. Most were role players. Dillon was the best of the bunch and he had one good year then fell off pretty sharply. The only guy on that list that got anything more than about the vet minimum or that we paid anything in trade is Dillon, and as I said, thank god we did it when we did instead of 1 year later, because he wouldnt have been worth it by 2005.

Again the argument that old guys worked out, isn't a valid argument that old Jason Taylor would work out, and you cannot compare the genius of resurecting an old role player to gfet some good play out of him for the vet min to trading what some people are suggesting should be a 2nd round pick and eating up 6mill or more in cap space.
We havent even begun to address what happens if the Pats offer a trade and Taylor comes back and says I want 4 years and 30 mill or I wont come there. Then what?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Taylors stats last year mean nothing, just like Moss' stats in Oakland meant nothing, and Dillons final stats in cincy meant nothing. When players come to the patriots they become MOTIVATED. They elevate their game because they are playing with the best and have a chance for a ring. If Taylor came here he would blow up, his stats would be through the roof, a hungry Taylor playing on the Pats for a ring are you kidding me? Did you see how 75 year old Seau played for crying out loud? lol. Taylor had a down year last year, his team was in the gutter they went 1-15, he wasnt motivated he was fed up. He didnt play his best ball. He would destroy people here! I love what BB could do with him too, start him at OLB and rotate Vrable in, play some 4-3 looks with Taylor at DE like we do with Thomas, could even play more 4-3 with Mayo in the middle. Only a neanderthal wouldnt want Taylor on the pats, id give up a 2nd or 3rd in the heartbeat. Still hoping he gets cut though and we sign him for free.

OK, so since I object to his character, do not think he is as good as the players we have at the position, and dont think he is worth the contract we would pay him, I am a NEANDERTHAL. I suppose BB is a neanderthal because he choose not to trade for Taylor before or on draft day, right.

You argument is ridiculous. He had a bad year last year but its not his fault. He was on the field as part of 1-15, but somehow he wasnt part of that he was a victim.
Do you know him personally? Did he tell you he didnt play well because he wasnt motivated?

Now you want to take a declining player who has never played 34 2 gap OLB, which is one of the most difficult positions in a shceme for any NFL player to play, and start him so you can send the pro-bowl Mike Vrabel to the bench. Or in the altenative you want to take a guy who has never played 2 gap discipline and have Bill Belichick abandon his philosophy and change the defense to a 43 to accomodate the guy who refuse to show up for his own teams training camp. I suppose you would like BB to abandon the 2gap concept as well, since Taylor is a one gap player, right?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

OK, so since I object to his character, do not think he is as good as the players we have at the position, and dont think he is worth the contract we would pay him, I am a NEANDERTHAL. I suppose BB is a neanderthal because he choose not to trade for Taylor before or on draft day, right.

You argument is ridiculous. He had a bad year last year but its not his fault. He was on the field as part of 1-15, but somehow he wasnt part of that he was a victim.
Do you know him personally? Did he tell you he didnt play well because he wasnt motivated?

Now you want to take a declining player who has never played 34 2 gap OLB, which is one of the most difficult positions in a shceme for any NFL player to play, and start him so you can send the pro-bowl Mike Vrabel to the bench. Or in the altenative you want to take a guy who has never played 2 gap discipline and have Bill Belichick abandon his philosophy and change the defense to a 43 to accomodate the guy who refuse to show up for his own teams training camp. I suppose you would like BB to abandon the 2gap concept as well, since Taylor is a one gap player, right?

Given your position on Taylor, and the actual known 'facts' of the situation, you shouldn't be calling anyone's argument ridiculous.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Given your position on Taylor, and the actual known 'facts' of the situation, you shouldn't be calling anyone's argument ridiculous.

So what are the facts that prove that trading for Taylor would be a genius move? And YOU said FACTS so lets not deal in things like 'the poor guy has a right to do show up for his job' or 'i can name a player who was 33 and changed to a position that he had never played before and it worked out for him, so it will work out for Taylor' and so on.

By the way if my argument that trading for Taylor is a bad idea was ridiculous BB would have already pulled the trigger.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

So what are the facts that prove that trading for Taylor would be a genius move? And YOU said FACTS so lets not deal in things like 'the poor guy has a right to do show up for his job' or 'i can name a player who was 33 and changed to a position that he had never played before and it worked out for him, so it will work out for Taylor' and so on.

By the way if my argument that trading for Taylor is a bad idea was ridiculous BB would have already pulled the trigger.

Wow.... where to start:

1.) The move doesn't have to be 'genius' for you to be wrong. Anything better than 'absolute disaster' would be enough for that.

2.) Your character argument has been based upon speculation, since Taylor didn't say he wouldn't be available.

3.) Belichick may think it's a great idea to get Taylor, and he may think it's a terrible idea to get Taylor. However, the notion that Belichick not 'pulling the trigger' somehow proves your argument is not ridiculous is, itself, ridiculous.

4.) In 2002, after becoming Super Bowl champions in 2001, the Patriots failed to make the playoffs. So, Brady must have been washed up, right? That makes as much sense as your argument about 1-15 and Taylor. Taylor may, or may not, be in the midst of a rapid decline, but last season is certainly not proof of it either way.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

I still believe that Jason Taylor will be a Patriot. Whether its from him being cut or the Pats trading for him.

 

[cstjohn17]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

While I am sure that most Taylor supporters think that he comes in here and gets a dozen sacks and it was a great move. That is not correct. While a one gap 43 DE can be defined by his sack total, and that scheme accepts his run D failures, if we brought him in and put him at OLB, those sacks are about 20% of his job, and he will be awful at the other 80%.

Andy, I think others have stated it and I will say it again. Our OLBs do not play 2-gap style of defense, they do 3 things:

1. Rush the passer
2. Set the edge against the run
3. Drop into the flat in coverage

Taylor can do all of these at a top level, and he doesn't have 1/1000 of the baggage that Dillion or Moss brought to the table. People can sugarcoat it, but on the day before the 2007 draft the consensus in this forum was that Moss was trouble, washed up and a punk. Amazing what a change of laundry can do.

If Taylor comes here (and I don't think he will) then we will have to suffer through watching one of the best front sevens in NFL history.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

I still believe that Jason Taylor will be a Patriot. Whether its from him being cut or the Pats trading for him.

You'd better tell that to the Dolphins because rumor has it that they are in negotiations with the Ravens as we speak.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

You'd better tell that to the Dolphins because rumor has it that they are in negotiations with the Ravens as we speak.

The Ravens? What's then to become of Terrell Suggs?

 

[BRiZ]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

OK, so since I object to his character, do not think he is as good as the players we have at the position, and dont think he is worth the contract we would pay him, I am a NEANDERTHAL. I suppose BB is a neanderthal because he choose not to trade for Taylor before or on draft day, right.

You argument is ridiculous. He had a bad year last year but its not his fault. He was on the field as part of 1-15, but somehow he wasnt part of that he was a victim.
Do you know him personally? Did he tell you he didnt play well because he wasnt motivated?

Now you want to take a declining player who has never played 34 2 gap OLB, which is one of the most difficult positions in a shceme for any NFL player to play, and start him so you can send the pro-bowl Mike Vrabel to the bench. Or in the altenative you want to take a guy who has never played 2 gap discipline and have Bill Belichick abandon his philosophy and change the defense to a 43 to accomodate the guy who refuse to show up for his own teams training camp. I suppose you would like BB to abandon the 2gap concept as well, since Taylor is a one gap player, right?

yea maybe Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen should go back to their teams too, such poor character quitting on their franchises like that. Who wants a championship anyways. Overrated.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Off season conditioning.

Of course it's voluntary, but he's always been there in the past.

This week was his first full week in Foxboro for Passing Camp.

Brady has been in and out of Foxboro all off-season.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Why would you bring in a guy who doesnt fit the system in order to move Thomas out of position? Thomas is best outside. It makes no sense to reduce his contribution in order tobring in a guy who wont be as good as him outside.
You are expecting Taylor to figure out how to play the run in a 2gap 34 as an OLB at what 32 years old? Come on.

The names look pretty in that post, but football games arent won because of name recognition. Taylor would add next to nothing to this team.

Andy -
When Seau was signed by the Patriots, he'd never played ILB in the 3-4 2 Gap system that the Pats ran. Seau was 36 years old. He had very little trouble learning the system and being productive in it.

Why would it be so hard for Taylor to come in and do the same thing at the OLB position? Taylor had success in Saban's 3-4 system, which is very similar to the one Belichick runs. That being said, the opposite is also true. There is nothing that will guarantee that Taylor will be able to come in and learn the 3-4 OLB system the way that Colvin and Thomas both have done so.

Now, I think you are being unfair regarding your characterization of Taylor. He's a veteran of 10+ years who was told when he re-signed that they would be putting together a winning team and NOT rebuilding. While the Dolphins have been horrid over the last couple of years, it has more to do with the poor drafting, lack of a quarterback, and lack of an offensive line than it does with the defense. You can have the best defense in the world and not win games if the offense can't score points.

If anything, I would say that Dolphins management has let him down and reneged on their part of the bargain. And it was Dolphins management who threw him under the bus since he was trying to keep this situation low key so as not to embarrass them. They chose to report it to the media and let the media have a field day with it.

That all being said, I don't believe that Parcells will trade Taylor within the division. Things between BB and him aren't exactly great and I don't think that Parcells wants to face Taylor twice a year.

Now, another argument against bringing Taylor in is that it would impede the progress of Crable and Woods. I think we will see Woods in the OLB rotation with Hobson, Vrabel and Thomas, unless Hobson ends up starting at the ILB spot.

There is whether or not Taylor could learn the OLB 2-GAP system (which the Patriots DO run, sorry Captain Stone).

And there is whether or not Taylor's attitude is truly poisonous or whether its just frustration (ala Corey Dillon and the Bengals) born out of the lack of success that the team has had because of issues other than on the defense.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Last time we sent a 2nd rounder down to Miami it worked out okay for us.

The difference is that Welker is young and in his prime. JT is over the hill and nobody offered the Dolphins their asking price during the draft. I think the market is LOw on JT, why outbid yourself? We're either getting him for a 4th or he's gonna be cut. If he gets cut, who do you think he wants to go to first?? The team with the best chance of a Superbowl ring, duh.

 

[TripleOption]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Now you want to take a declining player who has never played 34 2 gap OLB, which is one of the most difficult positions in a shceme for any NFL player to play,

He played OLB in Saban's scheme.

ILB is infinitely harder in the 3-4 than OLB. Taylor would likely be brought in as a rush LB.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

You'd better tell that to the Dolphins because rumor has it that they are in negotiations with the Ravens as we speak.

Really? Haven't heard anything about that. Got a link? What do the Ravens have to offer? And why would Taylor want to get traded from one loser to the next?

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Really? Haven't heard anything about that. Got a link? What do the Ravens have to offer? And why would Taylor want to get traded from one loser to the next?

No link. Just 10 or so threads on it at finheaven on Thursday or Friday. There might be some links on some of their threads. You never know untile it happens though.