J Jones agrees w/ Venecol on BB not relating w/ young generation

[TheRainMaker]

- Pete Carrol related to the players back in 1997-2000. He even played basketball with guys here. 10-6, 9-7, and 8-8....and off he went to USC to reinvent himself with younger players.

Injuries to key players (Bledsoe, Martin, McGinest, Glenn, Robert Edwards) and horrendous GM moves were out his control. Carroll was a scapegoat.

- It has been documented that BB purposely avoided getting too close to players because he would need to possibly bench, trade, or release them some day. So, he always kept his distance.

As it should be.

- Yeah, Gronk was tired of the grind...and pissed that BB almost traded him to Detroit. Many players were pissed at BB over the years...including Vrabel, Milloy, Bledsoe, Armstrong, Samuel, Meyers, etc...etc.... it is what it is.

You can't make everyone happy. At some point, you have to make tough moves which is going to upset someone.

 

[Hyped]

Why do you think Bill only had one team interview him and all 7 pass on him for HC vacancies?

Carroll and Vrable didn't get one interview at all this cycle as well.

And I think many teams saw BB as a SHORT TERM Coach. I mean, the man is 72 years old...how much longer can he coach? Then there was the dynamic
of having a GM work with BB in the short term.

Really, Dallas was a good match for BB. The Cowboys need to get over the hump and Jerrah is the GM and doesn't have much time left on earth.

It had nothing to do with BB being incapable of relating to today's youth. I mean the military recruits 18 year old kids all the time...and they for damn sure don't coddle kids.....

 

[Hyped]

Injuries to key players (Bledsoe, Martin, McGinest, Glenn, Robert Edwards) and horrendous GM moves were out his control. Carroll was a scapegoat.

As it should be.

You can't make everyone happy. At some point, you have to make tough moves which is going to upset someone.

Yeah, Carroll wasn't a bad coach...I'd agree that Grier did him no favors.

 

[venecol]

Carroll and Vrable didn't get one interview at all this cycle as well.

They both had interviews. Vrable had several.

And I think many teams saw BB as a SHORT TERM Coach. I mean, the man is 72 years old...how much longer can he coach? Then there was the dynamic
of having a GM work with BB in the short term.

I'm sure that was also a factor but apparently BB was only looking to be the HC.

It had nothing to do with BB being incapable of relating to today's youth. I mean the military recruits 18 year old kids all the time...and they for damn sure don't coddle kids.....

The NFL isn't the military which is the point. The military doesn't pay their recruits 100s of thousands or millions to serve.

 

[Hyped]

They both had interviews. Vrable had several.


I'm sure that was also a factor but apparently BB was only looking to be the HC.


The NFL isn't the military which is the point. The military doesn't pay their recruits 100s of thousands or millions to serve.

Had not heard about Vrabes/Carrol getting interviews. Interesting.

And my point was that young people do fine in the military for peanuts...so entitled rich players can suck it up....

 

[patman12]

BB's coaching style didn't spell his demise. His GM style/personnel management (player roster and coaching staff) are what did him in. Reid hasn't changed apart from getting Mahomes.

It did not entirely spell his demise but it probably factored into him being let go.

As far as Reid, he was EVP/GM in Philly for 12 years and after being fired then hired by KC, he let go of the front office roles and adapted his coaching style to give his OC and DC more authority. That was a pretty big shift in his approach to being Head Coach.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Had not heard about Vrabes/Carrol getting interviews. Interesting.

And my point was that young people do fine in the military for peanuts...so entitled rich players can suck it up....

What’s interesting is that some posters still take @venecol at his word. Vrabel intrerviewed with three teams but Carroll did not interview with any NFL team for their HC opening. Florio reported that he was “making a push” for the Chargers job.

Chargers Rumors: Pete Carroll Made A Last-Minute Bid For LA Gig?

The former USC and Seahawks coach did his best to land back in SoCal.

www.si.com

The Los Angeles Chargers did not interview Carroll for the opening job, so there was no interest on L.A.'s side, most likely.

Just like Venecol making a push to get fellated by someone/anyone during those lonely weekend nights at the local tavern, Pete really wanted the Chargers job but they weren’t interested. More agenda-driven fake news.

 

[venecol]

What’s interesting is that some posters still take @venecol at his word. Vrabel intrerviewed with three teams but Carroll did not interview with any NFL team for their HC opening. Florio reported that he was “making a push” for the Chargers job.

Chargers Rumors: Pete Carroll Made A Last-Minute Bid For LA Gig?

The former USC and Seahawks coach did his best to land back in SoCal.

www.si.com

The Los Angeles Chargers did not interview Carroll for the opening job, so there was no interest on L.A.'s side, most likely.

Just like Venecol making a push to get fellated by someone/anyone during those lonely weekend nights at the local tavern, Pete really wanted the Chargers job but they weren’t interested. More agenda-driven fake news.

I read Carroll was being interviewed by Chargers before they hired Harbaugh but thanks for correcting the record.

 

[p8ryts]

“I think when I came in it was, ‘Show up, do your job.’ And that worked. That worked for a while. That worked for a very, very long time, but this generation, I don’t think that works for them.

Doesn't reflect very well on the new generation. Actually, it probably reflects the Gen Z sentiment of entitlement and lack of responsibility.

 

[venecol]

“I think when I came in it was, ‘Show up, do your job.’ And that worked. That worked for a while. That worked for a very, very long time, but this generation, I don’t think that works for them.

Doesn't reflect very well on the new generation. Actually, it probably reflects the Gen Z sentiment of entitlement and lack of responsibility.

Maybe, but it's easier for the NFL Owners to dump old HCs than to bypass an entire generation of players.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Actually, it probably reflects the Gen Z sentiment of entitlement and lack of responsibility.

I blame their parents.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

“I think when I came in it was, ‘Show up, do your job.’ And that worked. That worked for a while. That worked for a very, very long time, but this generation, I don’t think that works for them.

Doesn't reflect very well on the new generation. Actually, it probably reflects the Gen Z sentiment of entitlement and lack of responsibility.

No "responsibility" for Belichick?

Seems pretty "entitled" for a coach who has had a prior history of not relating well with older players

 

[venecol]

No "responsibility" for Belichick?

Seems pretty "entitled" for a coach who has had a prior history of not relating well with older players

I know right? It's OK for a 72 yo HC to tell an entire generation of 20-something yo players that they need to change to adapt to his ways, despite the 42 yo GOAT QB saying he'd had enough. Lol

 

[jimnance]

I blame their parents.

100%. My twins,are college freshmen. Or is that freshpeople? One boy,one girl.
They are both extremely responsible, very appreciative of everything, the opposite of entitled, with great work ethics and are both very kind and polite.
They're both light-years better humans than I was at their age.
It ain't the generation, upbringing has a lot to do with it. I give my ex wife the lions share of credit since we divorced when they were younger. But we always were on the same page with the kids.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

I know right? It's OK for a 72 yo HC to tell an entire generation of 20-something yo players that they need to change to adapt to his ways, despite the 42 yo GOAT QB saying he'd had enough. Lol

Exactly. People act like there weren't anecdotes of players in the 80s and 90s on the Giants and Browns who didn't have similar comments about Bill.

Unless they're just being entitled too?

100%. My twins,are college freshmen. Or is that freshpeople? One boy,one girl.
They are both extremely responsible, very appreciative of everything, the opposite of entitled, with great work ethics and are both very kind and polite.
They're both light-years better humans than I was at their age.
It ain't the generation, upbringing has a lot to do with it. I give my ex wife the lions share of credit since we divorced when they were younger. But we always were on the same page with the kids.

Yeah, people love bringing up generations like as if there weren't entitled narcissistic kids back in the day.

If kids these days are somehow uniquely bad, then it says a lot about their parents and the older people around them and the world they left them.

 

[venecol]

100%. My twins,are college freshmen. Or is that freshpeople? One boy,one girl.
They are both extremely responsible, very appreciative of everything, the opposite of entitled, with great work ethics and are both very kind and polite.
They're both light-years better humans than I was at their age.
It ain't the generation, upbringing has a lot to do with it. I give my ex wife the lions share of credit since we divorced when they were younger. But we always were on the same page with the kids.

I suppose when your twins made a mistake, you guys berated them in front of the entire family, and they were appreciative and smiled?

That's what we're talking about here. Nobody is saying players can get away with being irresponsible or with having poor work ethics. It's about how to communicate with them to get them motivated. I think the fact Brady (in his 40s) had enough of Bill says it all. How do we expect that style to work with 20 yos? Do you like being embarrassed by your boss in front of the entire office (or whatever your work environment is)?

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

I suppose when your twins made a mistake, you guys berated them in front of the entire family, and they were appreciative and smiled?

That's what we're talking about here. Nobody is saying players can get away with being irresponsible or with having poor work ethics. It's about how to communicate with them to get them motivated. I think the fact Brady (in his 40s) had enough of Bill says it all. How do we expect that style to work with 20 yos? Do you like being embarrassed by your boss in front of the entire office (or whatever your work environment is)?

That's what I was getting at earlier: belichick went beyond "Coaching them hard" - he was just trying to get a power trip

 

[jimnance]

I suppose when your twins made a mistake, you guys berated them in front of the entire family, and they were appreciative and smiled?

That's what we're talking about here. Nobody is saying players can get away with being irresponsible or with having poor work ethics. It's about how to communicate with them to get them motivated. I think the fact Brady (in his 40s) had enough of Bill says it all. How do we expect that style to work with 20 yos? Do you like being embarrassed by your boss in front of the entire office (or whatever your work environment is)?

I was just agreeing with RW that when young people grow up feeling entitled and the world owes them something- a lot of the blame falls on the parents. It has nothing to do with the kids " generation".
There are plenty of Gen Z kids who don't act like the world owes them something, who have their heads on straight.
And there are also plenty of selfish boomers and millenials. What generation anybody grew up in is mostly irrelevant.
Universal positive values translate across all generations, I don't care if you're 20,40, 60 or 80 years old.
Berating anyone in front of others, whether it's a 10 year old kid, a 25 y.o. nfl player or a 40y.o. accountant is never acceptable and doesn't motivate anybody. It's a sign of weakness on the part of the berater. Treat people with respect and you'll be respected

 

[signbabybrady]

You guys are way off base. Picture something like this but with the whole team and minus the cliches. You better know your Ps and Qs and your mistakes from the game and practices will get pointed out.

Berating is not the right term. And to a man just about every player who talks about this talks about how it held them to a higher standard and was about being accountable to your teammates.

Whatever gen Z bullcrap you want to discuss or whatever BBs troubles were your looking in the wrong place with this one.

 

[jimnance]

You guys are way off base. Picture something like this but with the whole team and minus the cliches. You better know your Ps and Qs and your mistakes from the game and practices will get pointed out.

Berating is not the right term. And to a man just about every player who talks about this talks about how it held them to a higher standard and was about being accountable to your teammates.

Whatever gen Z bullcrap you want to discuss or whatever BBs troubles were your looking in the wrong place with this one.

I played sports and I never had a thin skin.
If a coach has the trust and respect of the players, he can call people out, usually using humor or sarcasm. This is the same thing players do with each other. It can be done because the player being called out knows his teammates and/or coach care about him. I believe this was the case with BB for many years. Case in point: Johnny Football at Foxboro High.
Players knew that Bill did whatever he did because it was " in the best interest" of the football team. That is all you want from your coach.
It worked well for many years.
But somewhere around 2019, Bill was no longer making decisions that were " in the best interest of the team" . He was violating his own principles.
And that's when he began losing credibility with his players. It was a gradual process, growing each year and culminating in the mindbogglingly stupid
OC fiasco of 2022. If Bill had any integrity left he should've retired at that point as he was hurting the team. Something he never wanted to do.
Youre way off base. This has nothing to do with Gen Z. This has everything to do with the GOAT nfl HC losing his ability, for whatever reason and not recognizing it.
I've always been one of Bill's biggest supporters here. But you got it backwards,pal.
It's Bill who was acting like the entitled brat.