Missing pieces on defense not offense: Misunderstood

[JarOfMayo51]

when your offense can only score 13pts, 17pts and 21pts in their last 3 playoff losses after averaging 35+ppg during the regular season there are issues on that side of the ball..

you arent winning anything scoring 13 and 17points against top defenses. while I agree our defense has been lacking. it cant be denied that our offense has let us down as well.

That isn't necessarily indicative of a problem on offense. Naturally, the further you go into the playoffs the better the defenses are going to be. Championship bouts in football aren't always high scoring slug fests, sometimes they can be played tighter to the vest and we need to have a defense that can make stands when it counts. Last years AFCCG came down to turnovers... We turned it over 3 times when we were either in the red zone or very close. Brady had a balled tipped that was caught by the defense for the first int, Ridley got his clock cleaned by Pollard and fumbled, and then Brady threw another int when he had to force a pass with only 16 or so seconds left into the end zone.

It was a day of bad bounces more than anything.. those 3 turnovers destroyed us.

 

[supafly]

Amendola/Sanders is a downgrade from Welker/Lloyd, who accounted for almost 1/2 of the receptions of one of the very best passing offenses in the NFL. What we all hope for is that health at TE will make up for this deficit.

What we seem to continue to ignore (as I suppose we should) is how good the offense would be with Welker/Lloyd and Sanders (or a draftee) in addition to health at TE.

There has to be something that we as fans are not seeing, knowing, or understanding. There has to be more behind the scenes information. It just cannot be as simple as it looks or as you're making it out to be. We also have to take into account that we're talking about a coach who's decisions have led us to consistent high competition for the past 12+ yrs, so even though it appears to be "easy" to determine--common sense also states that there are more variables to the equation than we're giving due credit to.

The bottom line is that these were the choices that Belichick made, and we've been through these periods of concern before. We were upset when Milloy was cut, when Law wasn't resigned, when Samuel wasn't given big money to stay, and when Seymour was traded. Some of these moves have proven to do well, while others have not..but it all has been for the best interest of the team both current and moving forward into the future. As a whole, these choices have proven to lead to high competition deep into the winter. Had it likely not been for a bad break or bounce, we'd have at least split with the NYG and had one more trophy. Sometimes life gives you those crappy bounces, right?

Not meaning to preach to someone whom I respect and admire as a fan and poster, or someone who has the experience in these matters more than myself--just meaning it to be food for thought. There very well may be more than meets the eye to these decisions. Either that or we need to get Belichick looked at by a professional...you decide

 

[supafly]

That isn't necessarily indicative of a problem on offense. Naturally, the further you go into the playoffs the better the defenses are going to be. Championship bouts in football aren't always high scoring slug fests, sometimes they can be played tighter to the vest and we need to have a defense that can make stands when it counts. Last years AFCCG came down to turnovers... We turned it over 3 times when we were either in the red zone or very close. Brady had a balled tipped that was caught by the defense for the first int, Ridley got his clock cleaned by Pollard and fumbled, and then Brady threw another int when he had to force a pass with only 16 or so seconds left into the end zone.

It was a day of bad bounces more than anything.. those 3 turnovers destroyed us.

You have said many good things that I agree with. We always score many pts through the season and always have a good record. Unfortunately there have been weaknesses too, and injuries/bad breaks and bounces have added to that misery. In all honesty, we probably should have split the 2 past SB's, as they were extremely evenly matched; however, our luck seemed to be used up during the close playoff games of the early to mid 2000's.

Often times momentum plays a part in these high powered matchups, as we've seen plenty of times before and particularly in many of the recent playoff losses. Defense and timely turnovers always tend to decide close games, at least more often than not anyway. The inability to create any turnovers in these playoff games have been insane, and the opposition has done a much better job in that regard.

I think we're much closer to being a powerhouse on the offensive side of the ball than the defensive side, especially with TFB at the helm. In the past in may have been the other way around. We seemed to be powerful on defense and needed "just enough" offense to get by for a win, however the opposite is probably happening during the post 2006 Brady era.

We've been close, we all know that. A little more offense OR defense may have gotten the job done, so hopefully we can improve a bit in both departments. I think it's a bit much to ask Brady to always need to win in shootouts, so if the defense can shave a couple of pts off of the 20-21 average, we may be in much better shape.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I expect the 2013 edition of th Patriots to have a much better Defense. Even without any additions. The Defense has had a lot of newcomers play last season, and they will be better with a season of playing together.

The AFCCG was an aberation and was played with out 4 starters on Defense and a couple more on IR. They all are back healthy now, and odds are we won't suffer a rash of injuries just before the big Playoff games, as we have the past couple of years.

The Offense should also be pretty good, but not as prolific as in past years. The TEs are spectacular, as are the RBs and QBs. The Offensive line is where it all starts and should be even better than the superb line from last year, with more experience from the new starters. But the WRs are not as good by their past profiles.

Even without the full complement of WRs yet defined, I think the 2013 team will be more balanced, then the 2012 edition.

 

[Kontradiction]

Missing pieces on defense not offense: Misunderstood. And it's still all good. And if you don't know, now you know *****.

 

[Jangles]

That's the thing, I don't understand how the offense is only managing those amount of points with the weapons we've had against top defenses.

Rob Gronkowski - best all around TE in football and better than both Christian Fauria, Daniel Graham and Ben Watson..

Aaron Hernandez - top 5 TE, maybe even 2nd best? but also better than all three tightends mentioned above, AND he can play receiver and the "X" man on O..

Wes Welker - best slot receiver ever, put up more numbers than Patten, Givens, Branch and Brown combined from 01-04.

Brandon Lloyd - more ability, talent and athleticism than all four receivers mentioned above..

I just spit water all over my computer.

Best joke I've ever heard. Thanks for the laugh.

And the offense scores that few points because they're playing a defense that can rush the passer, and crowd the middle of the field. Which is the only area the Patriots offense really has any success anymore.

 

[Snake Eyes]

In the post season we have become the passing game version of 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

Smash-mouth passing.

 

[Claremonster]

In my honest opinion we currently have enough offense when all healthy to easily win another 3 superbowls. We've had that for some years now. The Goat at the trigger, a healthy Danny Amendola, Gronk, Hernandez, those running-backs, Edelman, possibly Emmanuel Sanders, a retooled and reschooled Donald Jones and well respected receiving TE Jake Ballard .. along with that O-Line and the offense clearly needs NO MORE attention. I think all of these years we've been missing two things obviously and that's pass rush and coverage. Two things that were our strengths during the championship years. Now we've answered some questions through draft and free-agency the last few years but what about answering for all the lost pieces?

For example, linebacking corps.. The big 5, we had at least 4 strong pass rushers (including Tedy).. And a superb cover guy in Tedy although I don't think coverage is an issue. As long as they let Ninkovich play LB in those situations lol we should be ok. Additionally, Spikes has good instincts even though he lacks speed and Mayo is solid in coverage .. but still yet, we need those excellent pass rushers. Look below at the names....

Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Willie McGinest, Roosevelt Colvin, Ted Johnson
all got after the passer at different times, and effectively.

As for the defensive line we had one guy that created havoc both inside and out.. which is what Vince does now, but needs to stay fresh. But it's only him. Now we have additional pass rush but Chandler Jones needs to stay healthy and he is learning. Our former championship group.. have all types of players who could line up anywhere and pressure from different directions.

Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Ted Washington, Bobby Hamilton, Jarvis Green... look at these names, got to be kidding me.. have we replaced at least two? Vince Wilfork is great, Rob Ninkovich is outstanding but switches his LB roles often and Chandler Jones looks to be a young phenom when healthy, Kyle Love is also solid but is that enough? Do we need more? The answer is yes, which is why to me Tommy Kelly's signing made sense... But still is that enough?

And last but not least the secondary. We had All Pro Assante Samuel, Rodney Harrison, Ty Law, veteran Tyrone Poole, Randall Gay and Eugene Wilson who sometimes played the corner position. Since we haven't had a good corner until Aqib Talib, and a solid opposite before Alphonzo Dennard.. and an impact safety since Rodney Harrison.. until Adrian Wilson arrived.. but my question to you is.... do we still have enough? What are we missing?

Opinions.......

The answer is both sides need to be addressed. Bottom line. That and Kraft needs to pay off his homeland mafia more money.

 

[Claremonster]

Pats need another physical tall target on offense when Gonk gets hurt. When he goes out, the Pats are just a mid level threat. Dink and dunk can only get you so far in the post season. Way too predictable and easy to stop. I think this reason was why BB didn't lose any sleep over moving on without Weklah.

I do think that BB will finally address wr in the draft early this year. He has to realize that something needs to change there.

However, the defense also needs to be addressed as well.

Wr (x2), dl, cb, ss, coverage lb, ol should suffice.

 

[Brady6]

Surprise Cut

We usually have one or two players cut every year that would come as a surprise to most of us.

Based on our current roster which surprise player or players do you see not making the final roster?

My prediction is Kyle Love.

Discussions? Predictions?

 

[tonyto3690]

Pats need another physical tall target on offense when Gonk gets hurt. When he goes out, the Pats are just a mid level threat. Dink and dunk can only get you so far in the post season. Way too predictable and easy to stop. I think this reason was why BB didn't lose any sleep over moving on without Weklah.

I do think that BB will finally address wr in the draft early this year. He has to realize that something needs to change there.

However, the defense also needs to be addressed as well.

Wr (x2), dl, cb, ss, coverage lb, ol should suffice.

We should probably get an elite QB to backup Brady. You know, for when he tears his ACL.

 

[patsfan-1982]

#1 the coaching needs to be better in the playoffs

#2 the pass rush and the defense as a whole need to get timely stops

#3 ST the return game needs to do a better job

#4 they need to run the football on first and 2th down a lil more so brady dose not have to be in 3rd and long all the time, this team just gives up on the run to fast if they are down by a TD they go into pass only mode and when they are in 3rd and long Brady need to not lock on to he's top guy and spred the ball more,


I know that's easier said then done but I think the talent is there on both sides of the ball to win a SB if they can get dose big plays when they need them

 

[supafly]

Pats need another physical tall target on offense when Gonk gets hurt. When he goes out, the Pats are just a mid level threat. Dink and dunk can only get you so far in the post season.

We should probably get an elite QB to backup Brady. You know, for when he tears his ACL.

Except Brady hasn't torn his ACL in the last 2 biggest games of the season which could have/should have led to 1 or 2 more Super Bowls, nor is he currently trying to fight off an infection that may lead to his 4th surgery in the last 4 months.

I'm guessing that may have something to do with being concerned about his health and wanting another tall, physical target, I don't know...

 

[supafly]

#1 the coaching needs to be better in the playoffs

#2 the pass rush and the defense as a whole need to get timely stops

#3 ST the return game needs to do a better job

#4 they need to run the football on first and 2th down a lil more so brady dose not have to be in 3rd and long all the time, this team just gives up on the run to fast if they are down by a TD they go into pass only mode and when they are in 3rd and long Brady need to not lock on to he's top guy and spred the ball more,


I know that's easier said then done but I think the talent is there on both sides of the ball to win a SB if they can get dose big plays when they need them

Yep, it's pretty much all around blame for both sides, and some bad breaks and bounces of the ball.

When you turn the ball over and don't cause any turnovers yourself, you're likely to get beat in big games. We all know that turnovers are the single most telling stat in the game of football that can increase/decrease your chances of winning tremendously.

Believe it or not our 3rd down conversion rate in the AFCCG wasn't the problem at all as they were 7/15, which would have led the entire NFL last season. I don't mind the fact that they try and keep the defense guessing, but when they line up in a nickle formation for the duration of the game and dare you to run the ball, you need to take advantage of that. Unfortunately, that has not been the case in 2 of our last home playoff losses vs the NYJ and BAL.

Hopefully we continue to run the ball at a productive rate, especially with a key player like Woodhead being gone who also caught 40 balls last year. I imagine the hope is that Leon Washington and Shane Vereen will be able to do that, but only time will tell how effective they will be.

 

[ATippett56]

#2 the pass rush and the defense as a whole need to get timely stops

That's easier said than done especially when the defensive tackle position is stacked with a bunch of run stuffers.

 

[A man named Brady]

I don't care about being statistically the greatest offense of all time in the regular season when we can't score in the playoffs. SB42 was ALL on the offense

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

We have needs on both sides but I'd rather fix the defense issues then worry about offense. We won 3 super bowls with a championship caliber defense and an offense which lacked this all around threat at WR that is supposedly going to fix everything on offense. We had Randy Moss in 2007 and 2009 where our 'unstoppable' offense was more than neutralized when it mattered. Despite the rule changes, emphasizing offense isn't going to work when you get shut down everytime you play a physical defense which we haven't had an answer to in almost 10 years now.

 

[Nunchucks]

I think people are all too happy to point out the awesome patriots offensive statistics in the AFCC, while ignoring that in the red zone they played liked trash. The Ravens and other good defensive teams play a bend don't break defense on the Patriots and everybody starts pointing to the awesome yards and 3rd down conversion and blah blah blah...

The truth is the Patriots offense stunk it up when the field got short. Why? Because they couldn't run the friggin ball and they threw the ball to Welker too much.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but the Pats worked out FA LB Larry Grant today formerly of SF, per rotoworld.

 

[tonyto3690]

Except Brady hasn't torn his ACL in the last 2 biggest games of the season which could have/should have led to 1 or 2 more Super Bowls, nor is he currently trying to fight off an infection that may lead to his 4th surgery in the last 4 months.

I'm guessing that may have something to do with being concerned about his health and wanting another tall, physical target, I don't know...

1st injury: Bernard Pollard drags him down, his leg gets caught awkwardly. Fluke.

2nd injury: He barely blocks a guy who is pulling up on a PAT. Fluke.


Sometimes injuries just happen and you get unlucky. This isn't Talib who has his calf muscles explode whenever he takes a step. It's good to have backup plans, but you can only do so much. There are only so many resources to go around. You can't go into a season with good backup plans for everyone.

Right now we have very little in terms of long term solutions at S and CB as well as DT and LDE, and none of those positions are exactly loaded with talent. Furthermore, we already have other options on offense behind Gronk in Hernandez, Edelman, Amendola, etc. We don't have many options at CB if/when Talib gets hurt or heaven forbid, Wilfork, and next to McCourty is going to be mediocre all year if we're hoping Gregory/Wilson/Wilson turn out good.