is too much trust being put into josh mcdaniels???

[ctpatsfan77]

Belichick is not making every decision. He may have in the past but not anymore.

So are you claiming that BB has just turned over the offense to McDaniels, or are you claiming that Kraft has stripped authority from BB, or are you claiming that McDaniels has Jedi mind powers and is making decisions without consulting either of them?

 

[Rob0729]

Maroney, Jackson, O'Connell are McDaniels picks

He ruined Denver (lost 16 straight), then St Louis (worst offense in the league that yr)

Greg Salas to NE was his call. Freezing Welker the first few games was his call. Getting Amendola and 3 other Rams players is his call

McDaniels is calling a lot of these decisions

Belichick is not making every decision. He may have in the past but not anymore


.

Jackson was a Belichick pick. Belichick scouted Jackson himself when he went to visit his friend Urban Meyer in FL. Are you saying that Belichick scouted Jackson himself and didn't like what he saw and let McDaniels overrule him.

Belichick has a history of going against scouts advise when it came to Florida players. Urban Meyer stated that Belichick not only ignored scouts, but Meyer himself when it came to picking Jermaine Cunningham and he was infatuated with his potential.

Also, Belichick has final say in everything. You are kidding yourself if you think Belichick is handing off personnel decisions to McDaniels. It seems pretty clear from his offer to Welker, that he had a lot of say in the decision to phase out Welker if there truly was one.

BTW, Salas would still be on the team if the Pats didn't gamble on putting him to sneak him on the practice squad. They gambled wrong because the Eagles immediately signed him off of waivers. The mistake wasn't trading for him. The mistake was trying to put him on the practice squad.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Multiple books were written from people who followed the team for years

It's clear decisions were made, over scouts, because the coordinator wanted certain guys

It's silly to even argue this point, it is fact or at least printed in books as fact


.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

So are you claiming that BB has just turned over the offense to McDaniels, or are you claiming that Kraft has stripped authority from BB, or are you claiming that McDaniels has Jedi mind powers and is making decisions without consulting either of them?

None
You're twisting things

Belichick isn't a dictator
He makes decisions based on opinions from his staff

He has made multiple decisions where one specific guy, McDaniels, got HIS guys he liked (Maroney, Jackson, O'Connell, Lloyd, Greg Salas, 3 Rams players now on the roster)

.

 

[Rob0729]

None
You're twisting things

Belichick isn't a dictator
He makes decisions based on opinions from his staff

He has made multiple decisions where one specific guy, McDaniels, got HIS guys he liked (Maroney, Jackson, O'Connell, Lloyd, 3 Rams players now)

.

Again, you are speaking of things you know nothing about. Belichick scouted and drafted Jackson himself. That wasn't a McDaniels' pick. It was Belichick's.

Even O'Connell may not be a McDaniels pick, They sent McDaniels to work out with him, but that may not mean he was the one who made the decision. He could have been sent to check him out because they wanted to confirm the decision.

 

[Rob0729]

Multiple books were written from people who followed the team for years

It's clear decisions were made, over scouts, because the coordinator wanted certain guys

It's silly to even argue this point, it is fact or at least printed in books as fact


.

There were decisions made over scouts because BELICHICK wanted a guy. He might have valued coordinator's input over scouts at times, but Belichick made his decisions.

And not one single book ever said McDaniels chose either Jackson or O'Connell or even Maroney. The only thing ever written on any of the three have been what I stated - McDaniels' brother recommended Maroney and McDaniels was sent to work out with O'Connell. We don't even know if McDaniels pushed for O'Connell or even liked O'Connell when he worked him out.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

This thread starter asked a very simple question

The answer is a very emphatic YES

McDaniels is not a good talent evaluator.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Again, you are speaking of things you know nothing about. Belichick scouted and drafted Jackson himself. That wasn't a McDaniels' pick. It was Belichick's.

Even O'Connell may not be a McDaniels pick, They sent McDaniels to work out with him, but that may not mean he was the one who made the decision. He could have been sent to check him out because they wanted to confirm the decision.

Not true

It isn't worth searching since you'll ignore it anyways but there were articles when they were drafted that McDaniels personally worked out Jackson and O'Connell and were his recommendations

.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

You're twisting things

He makes decisions based on opinions from his staff

This is what you wrote:

Belichick is not making every decision.

What was I twisting in that statement?

 

[Rob0729]

Not true

It isn't worth searching since you'll ignore it anyways but there were articles when they were drafted that McDaniels personally worked out Jackson and O'Connell and were his recommendations

.

LOL! You have this imaginary proof, but you won't share it. Why is it with your girlfriend who lives in the Niagara Falls region?

BTW, the source you are talking about is War Room by Michael Holley and if you read the book, you are mixing up Holley's stories. Holley actually credits Urban Meyer for convincing Belichick to take Jackson. I couldn't find the exact quote, so here is an exerpt on a synopsis of the book:

War Room also drops a few nuggets, which I don't recall Patriot Reign doing at all. The biggest ones come from draft day deliberations, where the Patriots picked noted busts Laurence Maroney and Chad Jackson in the first and second round over the objections of their scouts. They had instead been endorsed by people outside the building, namely Josh McDaniels' brother Ben at Minnesota for Maroney and Belichick's close friend Urban Meyer for Jackson.

Residual Prolixity: Book Review: War Room

So technically, McDaniels didn't influence either pick.

 

[DaBruinz]

He ruined Denver (lost 16 straight), then St Louis (worst offense in the league that yr)

McDaniels did not ruin the St. Louis offense the year he was there. Do you know what happened? Let me tell you.

Amendola - 1 game - Dislocated Elbow/Torn Tricep
Roger Saffold - LT - Lost to a torn Pectoral Muscle
Greg Salas - Fractured Fibula - Missed 8 games. 2 prior to the Bye week and then 6 with the fracture.
Jason Smith - RT - Suffered Multiple Concussions resulting in 10 missed games.
Michael Hoomanawanui - TE - Torn ACL
Sam Bradford - Missed 6 games due to various injuries.
Danario Alexander - Missed 6 games.
Austin Pettis - Expected to start but missed 1st two games of the season and 1st two games after the Bye week.


So, do you really think that McDaniels RUINED the Rams offense? Or was it injuries that side-tracked them?

 

[Deus Irae]

LOL! You have this imaginary proof, but you won't share it. Why is it with your girlfriend who lives in the Niagara Falls region?

BTW, the source you are talking about is War Room by Michael Holley and if you read the book, you are mixing up Holley's stories. Holley actually credits Urban Meyer for convincing Belichick to take Jackson. I couldn't find the exact quote, so here is an exerpt on a synopsis of the book:



Residual Prolixity: Book Review: War Room

So technically, McDaniels didn't influence either pick.

Here's the money quote I think you were looking for:

As for Jackson, the team had brought him in for several visits and couldn’t agree on what his value was. Belichick had begun to develop a relationship with Florida coach Urban Meyer, who thought Jackson’s skills would translate to the pros. Receivers coach Brian Daboll, who had good instincts when it came to potential divas, disagreed. He said he didn’t want to coach him. Before his first season as receivers coach, Daboll had interviewed University of Pittsburgh receiver Antonio Bryant and had basically sprinted back toBelichick to say that he was not the Patriots’ type of guy. He had that same feeling about Jackson. The scouts agreed with Daboll. They said Jackson had a bad attitude, was a bad route runner, had excellent straight-line speed, and was a “me” guy.

Interestingly, for all the people here who have taken to bagging on Pioli:

Pioli was leaning toward the scouts on the Maroney/Jackson debate and Belichick wasn’t.

 

[DaBruinz]

Multiple books were written from people who followed the team for years

It's clear decisions were made, over scouts, because the coordinator wanted certain guys

It's silly to even argue this point, it is fact or at least printed in books as fact

You need to go read War Room again. McDaniels wanted Maroney and the scouts didn't. That was the ONLY one. Jackson was a Belichick pick. Rob is correct.

The Scouts were the ones who didn't want Maroney. The Scouts and Daboll were the ones who didn't want Jackson. They were over-ruled by Belichick in the end.

Fact is that this was the FIRST TIME that there wasn't a consensus regarding the players drafted.. Which had been the modus operandi up to that point. I suggest you go back and read War Room pages 89-91. Gives a great break down.

 

[Rob0729]

Here's the money quote I think you were looking for:



Interestingly, for all the people here who have taken to bagging on Pioli:

Thanks for the quote. I could find it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not true

It isn't worth searching since you'll ignore it anyways but there were articles when they were drafted that McDaniels personally worked out Jackson and O'Connell and were his recommendations

.

Wrong. McDaniels did not personally work out Jackson. Brian Daboll worked out Jackson and told Belichick that he couldn't coach Jackson. Belichick decided to work Jackson out for himself.

McDaniels did work out O'Connell. That is true. However, there is no information available that states, specifically, that O'Connell was a McDaniels' binkie.. Unless you have something to the contrary.

 

[Patsrock]

McDaniels did not ruin the St. Louis offense the year he was there. Do you know what happened? Let me tell you.

Amendola - 1 game - Dislocated Elbow/Torn Tricep
Roger Saffold - LT - Lost to a torn Pectoral Muscle
Greg Salas - Fractured Fibula - Missed 8 games. 2 prior to the Bye week and then 6 with the fracture.
Jason Smith - RT - Suffered Multiple Concussions resulting in 10 missed games.
Michael Hoomanawanui - TE - Torn ACL
Sam Bradford - Missed 6 games due to various injuries.
Danario Alexander - Missed 6 games.
Austin Pettis - Expected to start but missed 1st two games of the season and 1st two games after the Bye week.


So, do you really think that McDaniels RUINED the Rams offense? Or was it injuries that side-tracked them?

On top of that absolutely no off-season to implement his offense. All had to be done in training camp.

 

[Rob0729]

Wrong. McDaniels did not personally work out Jackson. Brian Daboll worked out Jackson and told Belichick that he couldn't coach Jackson. Belichick decided to work Jackson out for himself.

McDaniels did work out O'Connell. That is true. However, there is no information available that states, specifically, that O'Connell was a McDaniels' binkie.. Unless you have something to the contrary.

BTW, I was wrong about Belichick scouting Jackson personally. At least I think. Obviously Daboll spent the most time with him scouting, but I thought Belichick spent time with him as well as a lot of FL prospects each offseason.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

On top of that absolutely no off-season to implement his offense. All had to be done in training camp.

There is no Pats coach with more excuses given by apologists
At St Louis, in Denver, this past year, the time before

 

[Deus Irae]

There is no Pats coach with more excuses given by apologists
At St Louis, in Denver, this past year, the time before

We just countered your accusations with the book quote. Perhaps you could acknowledge your errors rather than doubling down?

 

[Rob0729]

There is no Pats coach with more excuses given by apologists
At St Louis, in Denver, this past year, the time before

So you chose to ignore all the posts that cited the articles that proved your statement that Chad Jackson was scouted and picked by McDaniels was 100% false and respond to this one. Kinda ironic that you claimed that if you posted the "many articles" proving McDaniels was the one that picked Chad Jackson, I would only ignore them.