Is the competitive advantage gained from BB's secrecy on injuries worth it?

[lamafist]

Actually, Belichick has said several times that the reason he doesn't disclose any more information than the injury report requires is that he believes it is a violation of the player's right to privacy, and HIPAA.


That being said, he pretty much follows the injury report rules to the letter.

Right. But what Belichick says is very clearly belied by the fact that in many, many cases players have later said that they wanted to go public with their injuries, but were not allowed to.

This isn't a criticism of Belichick -- I think his answer is a perfectly reasonable dodge of the question.

 

[jays52]

Although in this case I'm not. At all. We are the consumer. How we feel is the business' bottom line.

An emotion that is created solely by wins and losses. Whatever minor advantage there is to be gained creates a better chance of winning, and therefore keeps us fans happy. Frankly, I could care less if Belichick came on TV and called us all out of shape fan boys who are disgusting losers in love with athletes like we were 8 year old boys as long as he kept winning and put an entertaining product on the field. The only things fans are entitled to is the desire to see the team win. Other than that, we really have no right pressuring the greatest coach in NFL history to placate our absurd "feelings".

 

[Deus Irae]

Obnoxious? Really? How so?

If you're not interested by the topic up for discussion, you are free to not post in the thread. If you disagree with an opinion being expressed, you are free to express your own -- as you did, articulately, and without resorting to meaningless posturing, in your 1st response.

When you post stupidity, you should expect to be called on it. "Dividend on our frustration" is utterly moronic in context.

However, if you'd care to quantify both the "frustration" and the "Dividend on our frustration", I'm sure that would be fascinating reading.

 

[Synovia]

When you post stupidity, you should expect to be called on it. "Dividend on our frustration" is utterly moronic in context.

However, if you'd care to quantify both the "frustration" and the "Dividend on our frustration", I'm sure that would be fascinating reading.

Again Dues, thank you for proving how incapable you are of having an actual conversation about football without resorting to personal attacks and flames.

 

[lamafist]

When you post stupidity, you should expect to be called on it. "Dividend on our frustration" is utterly moronic in context.

However, if you'd care to quantify both the "frustration" and the "Dividend on our frustration", I'm sure that would be fascinating reading.

Who's posting stupidity here, really?

I've made salient (if unpersuasive) arguments to back up my opinions. You've come in and offered nothing but insults and attitude.

You also, apparently, posted in a thread the topic of which you found stupid -- and how idiotic is that?

 

[DarrylS]

Who's posting stupidity here, really?

I've made salient (if unpersuasive) arguments to back up my opinions. You've come in and offered nothing but insults and attitude.

You also, apparently, posted in a thread the topic of which you found stupid -- and how idiotic is that?

You have ignored the obvious, and chosen to take the inflammatory route.. there is no way to quanitify your answer... you want some type of a number, and that cannot be provided.. most of us feel if this is what it takes to win, and if it is within the rules of the NFL it is ok..

 

[Deus Irae]

Who's posting stupidity here, really?

I've made salient (if unpersuasive) arguments to back up my opinions. You've come in and offered nothing but insults and attitude.

You also, apparently, posted in a thread the topic of which you found stupid -- and how idiotic is that?

Claiming that you've made "salient (if unpersuasive) arguments" is not the same as actually doing so.

 

[Synovia]

You have ignored the obvious, and chosen to take the inflammatory route.. there is no way to quanitify your answer... you want some type of a number, and that cannot be provided.. most of us feel if this is what it takes to win, and if it is within the rules of the NFL it is ok..

Theres a huge difference between posting a slightly inflammatory thread, and making blatant personal attacks.

This is a message board for patriots fans on the internet, you have to expect some threads about swagger, and other nonsense. That doesn't mean you can go around and making personal attacks.

 

[Synovia]

Claiming that you've made "salient (if unpersuasive) arguments" is not the same as actually doing so.

Then refute them Deus, instead of calling him names. Provide some substance.

 

[lamafist]

An emotion that is created solely by wins and losses. Whatever minor advantage there is to be gained creates a better chance of winning, and therefore keeps us fans happy. Frankly, I could care less if Belichick came on TV and called us all out of shape fan boys who are disgusting losers in love with athletes like we were 8 year old boys as long as he kept winning and put an entertaining product on the field. The only things fans are entitled to is the desire to see the team win. Other than that, we really have no right pressuring the greatest coach in NFL history to placate our absurd "feelings".

I wouldn't say "solely" created by wins and losses, though I do think that wins and losses is by far the most important factor. If I were convinced that there were no way of toning down the reticence on injuries without giving up whatever competitive advantage we get from our relative caginess, I'd be one hundred percent in lockstep.

But I can't help but feel that the degree to which BB takes it goes a bit too far.

No, as for "pressuring the greatest coach in NFL history to placate our absurd "feelings," well, to that I'll say this: if you check my post history, you'll find that there are few more Belichick-defferential than I. If BB wants to trade Seymour a week before the season, I figure hey, he knows more about the needs of this team than I do. He makes a trade, signing or pick that doesn't work out? I figure it was the smart move at the time, and that he's got game tape, not a crystal ball.

But the one area where I won't give BB the benefit of the doubt it knowing when enough is enough when it comes to pushing for that competitive edge. Don't get me wrong -- I'm GLAD that BB doesn't have this sense of perspective, because it's this type of monomania that makes him the great coach that he is. But, after '07, it's hard not to deny that it can have a downside.

Do you think the advantage we got from taping defensive signals was worth incuring the wrath of the league, after having been warned against doing it by the new, clearly authoritarian commissioner?

Furthermore, do you think that BB's cavalier attitude about stymieing and snubbing the press didn't play a big roll in the huge fiasco that spygate became? If St. Dungy had been caught doing the same thing, it would've been swept under the rug, with no loss of a 1st rounder, and no big pre-Super-Bowl distraction.

Now, of course, I'll take dour, sardonic BB over santimonious Dungy any day of the week, and four quarters on sunday -- but in the case of spygate, it was a matter of chickens coming home to roost.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I would appreciate it if you would link it to me.

Awww. But I like being ridiculous.

Although in this case I'm not. At all. We are the consumer. How we feel is the business' bottom line.

Here you go, skippy. Straight from the mouth of the man who bought this franchise when it was a laughingstock and turned it into the cap era league wide blueprint for success.

"Getting to a Super Bowl is tough," Kraft said. "Once you get there it's even tougher to maintain a good team and get back. The whole NFL system is designed so everyone is 8-8 every year. If you make smart decisions, you can beat the system."

"Our mission statement is to make the playoffs," Kraft said. "Once you do that, anything can happen."

 

[Synovia]

Furthermore, do you think that BB's cavalier attitude about stymieing and snubbing the press didn't play a big roll in the huge fiasco that spygate became?

Belichick doesn't stymy the press. He's fully willing to talk to them, and frequently does. The questions just have to be about football. There are plenty of reporters who do long detailed interviews with him. He offers film sessions that the press can come and see. Most reporters are just completely uninterested in the game of football, and are there for the "human interest" story (by human interest, I mean paparazzi angle)

He just won't answer questions about Tom's honeymoon.

 

[jays52]

I wouldn't say "solely" created by wins and losses, though I do think that wins and losses is by far the most important factor. If I were convinced that there were no way of toning down the reticence on injuries without giving up whatever competitive advantage we get from our relative caginess, I'd be one hundred percent in lockstep.

But I can't help but feel that the degree to which BB takes it goes a bit too far.

No, as for "pressuring the greatest coach in NFL history to placate our absurd "feelings," well, to that I'll say this: if you check my post history, you'll find that there are few more Belichick-defferential than I. If BB wants to trade Seymour a week before the season, I figure hey, he knows more about the needs of this team than I do. He makes a trade, signing or pick that doesn't work out? I figure it was the smart move at the time, and that he's got game tape, not a crystal ball.

But the one area where I won't give BB the benefit of the doubt it knowing when enough is enough when it comes to pushing for that competitive edge. Don't get me wrong -- I'm GLAD that BB doesn't have this sense of perspective, because it's this type of monomania that makes him the great coach that he is. But, after '07, it's hard not to deny that it can have a downside.

Do you think the advantage we got from taping defensive signals was worth incuring the wrath of the league, after having been warned against doing it by the new, clearly authoritarian commissioner?

Furthermore, do you think that BB's cavalier attitude about stymieing and snubbing the press didn't play a big roll in the huge fiasco that spygate became? If St. Dungy had been caught doing the same thing, it would've been swept under the rug, with no loss of a 1st rounder, and no big pre-Super-Bowl distraction.

Now, of course, I'll take dour, sardonic BB over santimonious Dungy any day of the week, and four quarters on sunday -- but in the case of spygate, it was a matter of chickens coming home to roost.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that your point is that by being so curt with everyone on injuries he is doing himself a diservice on the PR front? I think that is a valid point, and I certainly think it was the previously wounded sportswriters getting their moment of vengance. So, towards your points, yes I think that they are both correct and valid. Conversely, one must also look at the galvanizing effect media villification has upon a team.

 

[lamafist]

You have ignored the obvious, and chosen to take the inflammatory route.. there is no way to quanitify your answer... you want some type of a number, and that cannot be provided.. most of us feel if this is what it takes to win, and if it is within the rules of the NFL it is ok..

In no way do I mean to be "inflammatory." I apologize if my post made you in any way inflamed.

As for what I'm asking being unquantifiable -- I disagree. I'd say it is, theoretically quantifiable, though difficult to the point of impracticality. But there are a lot of things that are tricky to quantify -- for example, the value to the team of keeping player X as a 4rd string safety/special-teams, over the value of keeping player Y as a 3rd string runningback.

It's the things that are beyond our ability to quantify that produce the longest conversations, isn't it?

 

[DarrylS]

In no way do I mean to be "inflammatory." I apologize if my post made you in any way inflamed.

As for what I'm asking being unquantifiable -- I disagree. I'd say it is, theoretically quantifiable, though difficult to the point of impracticality. But there are a lot of things that are tricky to quantify -- for example, the value to the team of keeping player X as a 4rd string safety/special-teams, over the value of keeping player Y as a 3rd string runningback.

It's the things that are beyond our ability to quantify that produce the longest conversations, isn't it?

Here is a suggestion why don't you repost this in the form of a poll, and see how it shakes out... think you will be surprised to see how many disagree with your need to know the details, because you are a fan..

 

[patfanken]

Lets be honest here. Doesn't the "fans right to know" cry have nothing to do with his actually wanting to know, and everything to do with his FANTASY FOOTBALL TEAM??????

 

[lamafist]

Belichick doesn't stymy the press. He's fully willing to talk to them, and frequently does. The questions just have to be about football. There are plenty of reporters who do long detailed interviews with him. He offers film sessions that the press can come and see. Most reporters are just completely uninterested in the game of football, and are there for the "human interest" story (by human interest, I mean paparazzi angle)

He just won't answer questions about Tom's honeymoon.

Actually, most sports reporters have a deep, abiding passion for the game of football. Or at least, they did when they got started in their jobs.

It's just that their articles about x's and o's get one tenth the page views (if that) that their pieces about "storylines" and "human interest" do, so if you want to keep your job, and maybe even get a raise, you write the crap.

So in terms of giving the masses the fluff they want, yes, BB does stymie the press.

 

[lamafist]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that your point is that by being so curt with everyone on injuries he is doing himself a diservice on the PR front? I think that is a valid point, and I certainly think it was the previously wounded sportswriters getting their moment of vengance. So, towards your points, yes I think that they are both correct and valid. Conversely, one must also look at the galvanizing effect media villification has upon a team.

My point was twofold: 1st, that, in the instance of spygate, it was, in fact, the "wounded sportswriters" and their ilk who ginned up spygate into what it was, and 2nd, the competitive advantage BB got from having a guy on the sidelines taping the signals vs. having someone in the stands, or having someone in the booth with a notepad, was negligible.

I think, when it comes to injuries, there are times when BB is unnecessarily cagey, and that in addition to being frustrating to the fan, he's also missing out on an opportunity to curry some absolutely free favor with the press.

 

[lamafist]

Lets be honest here. Doesn't the "fans right to know" cry have nothing to do with his actually wanting to know, and everything to do with his FANTASY FOOTBALL TEAM??????

I don't have a fantasy football team, actually. And I never meant to imply that the fans have a "right" to know anything. I'm just saying that if there are times when there's no harm in our knowing, it's be nice if we did.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Actually, most sports reporters have a deep, abiding passion for the game of football. Or at least, they did when they got started in their jobs.

It's just that their articles about x's and o's get one tenth the page views (if that) that their pieces about "storylines" and "human interest" do, so if you want to keep your job, and maybe even get a raise, you write the crap.

So in terms of giving the masses the fluff they want, yes, BB does stymie the press.

Reminds me of this place. Good threads on X's and O's get far fewer views than those geared towards whining and criticizing and turtling.

BB doesn't give a rats ass about the masses. That's Goodell's job, marketing. His job is to win games and remain competitive consistently. That's all real fans want, and that's all his boss wants from him. Bob takes care of our 1/32nd of the PR and league/media politics. That's what the owners job entails, hiring a guy who can win and backing him up so he can focus on what matters.