Is Peyton Manning really *THAT* good?

[sieglo]

Where has the Colts defense ranked in all of these other seasons? Because I don't think Manning plays D, and D is 50% of the game.

 

[Fball]

Where has the Colts defense ranked in all of these other seasons? Because I don't think Manning plays D, and D is 50% of the game.

Good offense can make a good defense, though. It's hard on a D when the O is going 3 & out all of the time.

Look at last weeks Jets/Pats game. The Pats ran over 80 plays on O, while the Jets ran just over 50. Reverse that, and it's a different game.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

plus, with Manning out, the coaches actually have to coach which is not their strong suit

Jim Caldwell

Regards,
Chris

 

[sbpatfan]

You could tell that team was bad last year. All of their best players are old and wearing down: Freeny, Mathis, Clark, Wayne, and Peyton. They've found no new stars on offense or defense, partly because their recent drafts were terrible. Manning was the nail in the coffin.

 

[Its_The_Patriots]

Of course he is. Give credit where credit is due.

 

[Jangles]

What would the Pats record be if we had Curtis Painter instead of Tom Brady?

I'd vote for 0-6 or 1-5

 

[Lansdowne]

Re: Brady

The same detractors that hate on Brady by saying he's a product of Belichick, do the same when talking of Belichick ("he isn't as good without Brady"). Well no duh! They're both the best at what they do, and together they have the best W-L record in NFL history of any QB/coach tandem.

Re: Manning

It's a combination of Manning being that damn good (his combination of arm strength and pin point accuracy makes even mediocre receivers look good because he's able to put the ball in the right spot at the right time, just like Brady), and the Colts being arrogant and foolish to think their franchise QB is infallible.

 

[JackBauer]

As Mo said, even if Manning were healthy this year, the team's issues might have reached critical mass to the extent that even his talents couldn't redeem them. That OL, running game, defense... all terrible.

 

[reflexblue]

It has been amazing for me to watch the Colts' implosion this year. Look at their past 9 seasons:

10-6
12-4
12-4
14-2
12-4
13-3
12-4
14-2
10-6

Now this year, they're 0-6, and have looked very bad in the process. Their scores:

at Hou: L, 34-7
vs Cle: L, 27-19
vs Pit: L, 23-20
at TB: L, 24-17
vs KC: L, 28-24
at Cin: L, 27-17

Average score: Opp: 27.2, Ind 17.3

That's a -10 points per game. Their offense is ranked #28 in points, and #31 in yards. Their defense is ranked #28 in points allowed and #26 in yards allowed.

I realize those rankings are obviously going to result in a pretty bad team. But this team went from a 10-win team last year (and averaging over 12 wins a year over the past 9 seasons) to a horrible, horrible team. And, really, the only difference is that they don't have Peyton Manning.

So it makes me wonder: Is he really that good? It would seem like it, if he can make that big a difference.

Is this some kind of trick question?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

yes he is that good...but i also think they (Colts) are smart enough to tank the season for the #1 pick (Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford).

And if they get the number 1 pick, they have two options:
a) Trade that pcks for a boatload of picks and players which leaves them in the same position unless they draft a QB
or
2) Draft Luck and have $$$$$$ tied up in two players at one position and hope that the two can coexist.

 

[Deus Irae]

Starting QB who is stingy about letting backups get reps + inexperienced backup who's not very talented = terrible backup situation

Team in decline + terrible backup situation + significant injuries = current Colts


It's not that Manning is that good, although he's a top shelf QB. It's that the situation behind him is that bad, and part of that is Manning's own fault.

 

[Metaphors]

They have had a boatload of injuries besides Manning. That being said, their problem is more than just losing an elite starting QB. The problem is losing Manning on a team specifically geared to having Manning running the offense. The receivers are great at getting to the right spot at the right time (frisbee dogs). The OL is designed to hold up just long enough for Manning's quick release. The backs do well in space when defenses are spread out. The front 7 is small and fast to defend against teams playing catch up. The DBs are opportunistic zone guys that wait for mistakes.

Plug in Manning and everything makes sense. Plug in just about anyone else and it doesn't work. Not only are the Colts crashing this year but they are forced to face the reality of:

a) Finding someone just like Manning or...
b) Restructuring (scheme and personnel) a good portion of the team

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The Colts have had some very poor drafts. I'd compare them to the Patriots in 2009, trying to cling on to some aging players with no replenishment in sight.

 

[Patstopia]

Things always go better when you have a plan. Now if your plan is to draft your next QB, then you need to make sure you have all your ducks in order. Both the offense and defense need to be off, but not terminal. Lose one season, get Luck, win the next 15.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I havent heard word that Peyton is on IR yet.

I would think once the team loses its 7th game and is all but eliminated from the postseason,Manning's season will be cut off for good.

That could be this week,The Colts look like the early 90s right now..

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Things always go better when you have a plan. Now if your plan is to draft your next QB, then you need to make sure you have all your ducks in order. Both the offense and defense need to be off, but not terminal. Lose one season, get Luck, win the next 15.

If that's the plan Luck will either get off to a rough start out of the gate or get potentially shell shocked watching Manning body parts carted off the field over his first couple of seasons. The 2011 Colts have a lot of needs beyond QB and those only get fixed with extensive roster re-building and more talented/creative coaching and better depth of talent on both sides of the ball.

BTW the suck for Luck campaign could backfire on any team employing it because Luck is a bit of an odd duck...with a season of eligibility left and an aversion to the concept of a team sucking to land him. Remember, under the new CBA he won't get top tier QB $$$ from any team until his second contract...and he'll only have 3-4 years to prove to the what have you done lately league he's worth it...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The Colts not only don't have a Manning replacement, they don't have a BB equivalent to manage their personnel and coaching functions in the interim... Polian is a great builder when he has lots of top 10 picks to work through, not so great when he doesn't. He also has an aversion to FA and he isn't an X's and O's guy - he has subcontract that out to someone who won't ever conflict with him. It's a tough mix to manage through in transition or in crisis.

 

[The_Riddler]

It's so blatantly obvious that this Colts team is purposely tanking games. So damn obvious. The true indicator was the Chiefs game where they somehow, someway miracuously pissed away a massive lead in the 2nd half to the World Beater KC Chiefs and Matt Cassell.

There really should be an investigation into what Polian and crew are doing over there right now in their "Suck for Luck" quest. I mean there really isn't any hiding what's going on over there.

I haven't seen Dallas Clark fumble in like 10 years and not sure if anyone saw the play yesterday, but Clark allowed a football to be taken out of him arms during a tackle. Prepare to see alot of strange and wierd things as the season goes on for this Colts team. Things that you've never seen before, even from some of their core vets. The 2nd half team collapses are a riot also, especially if the Colts have a lead. All of a sudden a 7, 10, 14 pt Colt lead will miracuously evaporate by the 4th Qtr. "Suck For Luck !" Bill Polian has given his orders.

 

[Tunescribe]

plus, with Manning out, the coaches actually have to coach which is not their strong suit

This gets to the key point of what's happening with Indy. Manning is more than just a quarterback, he runs the whole offense and it's completely different in his absence. He's more like a player/coach/coordinator in one. Add to that how the defense is built to feed off his prolific ways and you've got a house of cards propped up by one player.

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

I wonder what would happen if the Bears lost Forte. Can you go 0-50 in a 16 game season?