Is Peyton Manning really *THAT* good?

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ivanvamp, Oct 17, 2011.

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  1. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

    It has been amazing for me to watch the Colts' implosion this year. Look at their past 9 seasons:


    Now this year, they're 0-6, and have looked very bad in the process. Their scores:

    at Hou: L, 34-7
    vs Cle: L, 27-19
    vs Pit: L, 23-20
    at TB: L, 24-17
    vs KC: L, 28-24
    at Cin: L, 27-17

    Average score: Opp: 27.2, Ind 17.3

    That's a -10 points per game. Their offense is ranked #28 in points, and #31 in yards. Their defense is ranked #28 in points allowed and #26 in yards allowed.

    I realize those rankings are obviously going to result in a pretty bad team. But this team went from a 10-win team last year (and averaging over 12 wins a year over the past 9 seasons) to a horrible, horrible team. And, really, the only difference is that they don't have Peyton Manning.

    So it makes me wonder: Is he really that good? It would seem like it, if he can make that big a difference.
  2. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

    I think you answered your own question. While there are other contributing factors, yes he's that good.
  3. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired Supporter

    #91 Jersey

    yes he is that good...but i also think they (Colts) are smart enough to tank the season for the #1 pick (Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford).
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks Supporter Supporter

    He is really that good, but what ails the Colts now is also a compilation of things that were creeping up on them despite the record the last couple of seasons. Bad drafts, especially in the first round, aversion to FA, top heavy payroll structure that limited depth to late round draft picks and UDFA's, gradual effect of the loss of coaching from Dungy to Moore and Mudd with nothing but weak disciples to fill their roles...and possibly complacency creeping in on the heels of finally winning ONE and getting the stadium deal done. Ownership and the FO kind of lost their drive once their core goals had been achieved.

    What will be interesting to watch now is whether they clean house - from players to coaches, begin to transition to the post Manning era or hang on and try to win one more with Manning...
  5. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan On the Game Day Roster

    No, It's the Colts front office fault for not getting a competent backup QB. If Matt Cassel were QB of the Colts they would be 3-3
  6. Jangles

    Jangles Supporter Supporter

    Yes he is that good, but don't think the gap between him and other good QBs is that large.

    The Colts are terrible because they didn't have a legitimate backup. If you truly think only Peyton Manning could have success playing for the Colts then LOL.
  7. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Pro Bowl Player

    No Jersey Selected

    I think Manning is *that* good, yeah, but I also have to wonder how good a team the Colts would have been this year with him. 10-6 last year, I'm thinking 8-8 this year. What's happening without Manning is a condemnation of the top-heavy way the franchise has been run. (And this is the franchise that some were holding up as personnel/draft geniuses compared to the Patriots before last season).

    Of course, this is also the franchise that literally quit on a 16-0 season (the football gods made them pay for that). My question for the salary cap-adept on the board: How could they possibly pay the salaries of both Manning and a top five or even number one pick next year, and still build a competitive team for the rest of Manning's career?
  8. PatsGirl2011

    PatsGirl2011 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Although I do think they would've been at best 4-2 with him, the Colts were not going to be a serious SB contender regardless.They were slowly but surely becoming average.
  9. cavtroop

    cavtroop In the Starting Line-Up

    #87 Jersey

    I think its somewhere in the middle. Yes, Manning is hella-good. But Im PISSED that he's out for the year - I think that the team sucks except for him for the most part, and I REALLY wanted to see Peyton Manning go to an 8-8 or 9-7 season, which I think he'd have struggled to do with this team.

    The Colts FO has made a mess of that team - the only thing holding it together was Petyon. Even if they do end up with Luck, they have so many needs, it's going to be a while before they compete again I think.
  10. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

    #12 Jersey

    Absolutely. The record show not only how good Peyton is but how important the QB position is overall. The Colts have no one. No one even remotely prepared. Their FO is absolutely pathetic if they just hoped Peyton would stick around forever, uninjured and in his prime.
  11. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    The Patriots won 6 less games going from 16 to 10 without Brady. Now it's doubtful they would have won 16 with him in 08 but that was a serious cream puff schedule nonetheless. Cassel got schooled by the better teams that year.

    Going in it wouldn't have been improbably to say the Manning-less Colts would go down 6 games as well. Given the way this entire scenario has played out however I think two better questions would be:

    1. Is Jim Caldwell that bad? My answer is yes. He is inept and that team pretty much gave up out of the shoot. As Parcells once said if you give a team a reason to quit they will.

    2. Has Bill Polian been that overrated? Again I answer yes. The Patriots proved to have at least a decent plan B to Brady. Polian realized his plan B was crap so he brought in his plan C which was crap so now they've reverted to plan D which is plan B all over again with the hope of getting Luck thrown in.

    Given the age of their stars they either need to blow it up including trading Manning if you can or keep Manning and trade the Luck pick down several times hoping to have one of those drafts for the ages or they aren't making another run.
  12. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale In the Starting Line-Up

    Yes. One of the all-time greats.

  13. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

    I honestly don't know how they could swing both Manning and Luck and still pay enough other guys to be good. Here's Manning's contract:

    2012: $7.4 million base, $17 million against the cap.

    2013: $8.4 million base, $18 million against the cap.

    2014: $9.4 million base, $19 million against the cap.

    2015: $10.4 million base, $20 million against the cap.

    Would they draft Luck expecting to pay him and Manning so much, while Luck sits for *four years*? Or would they trade that pick? If Luck truly is an elite talent, which sure seems to be the case, how much would he fetch in a trade? I would think that, for a true franchise QB like him, the Colts would be able to get a TON - future picks, quality players, the works. It might be enough for them to be set up for the last 4 years of Peyton's contract.
  14. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired Supporter

    #91 Jersey

    plus, with Manning out, the coaches actually have to coach which is not their strong suit
  15. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    a) yes, he's that good.
    b) yes, the Colts have a ton of their salary cap tied up in a few aging stars
    c) yes, Painter and Collins are that bad.

    It's some combination of all three.

    If at any point in the past few years the Colts had gotten around to cultivating a legitimate backup, things might look a little different. I've only seen 3 Colts games, and Painter's been missing open receivers left and right.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I think Manning is really good, but I felt this team was going to be middle of the pack with him and miserable without him. I thought they were an 8-8 or 9-7 team with him and a 5 win team without him. I overestimated how good they would be without him. They are a 1-3 win team now.

    Granted they probably would have gotten 4-5 wins if they took Manning's injury seriously and got a real QB option without him other than Painter and a last minute hail mary in Kerry Collins.


    #12 Jersey

    When you are making jags like Pierre Garcon and Collie look like all pros you are a special QB - I always thought those 2 were defeinately a product of Peyton's special gift.

    Would guys like David Patten,David Givens and Deion Branch ever became names worth signing on other teams if not for Brady?...same thing
  18. ScottieC

    ScottieC In the Starting Line-Up

    The simple answer? Yes, yes he is.
  19. condon84

    condon84 In the Starting Line-Up

    Coaching staff is to blame for this debacle. It's their job to get their team prepared for games. It's not like that team doesn't have any playmakers. They still have all the components of a good enough team to win games. If Painter can't run the same offense as Manning, then change your game plan to fit what he does best.

    If the San Fran coaching staff had the Colts players, thet would be in a lot better shape.
  20. PatsFan24

    PatsFan24 In the Starting Line-Up

    Mannig is the MVP of the league. That does not mean he is the best player, but nobody is more valuable to their team than Manning has been to the Colts. It is in part because he is one of the best ever, but also because the Colts were not prepared for a life without Manning. It's true the Pats were 11-5 without Brady, but they also had a backup that played well. They were, somewhat, prepared in case it did happen. You did notice though that in 08 they lost to all the best teams they played that year. So maybe Brady is more important that some people want to say.
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