Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by PatsGuy, Mar 9, 2012.
I had not heard this before
Freeney's farewell? | National Football Post
They're a little upset in Colts land. I think the concept of a total rebuild is only just beginning to sink in.
Thought this was a nice nod to Belichick's foresight.
I cannot imagine any team trading for him unless they were able to work out a contract extension prior to completing the deal. With such a short amount of time before the start of free agency, that makes the chances of that happening remote. Teams would more likely want to just wait until the Colts cut him and sign him as a free agent, without having to lose anything in a trade.
It's amazing to see a team that managed their roster, contracts and the cap so very well for a long stretch, suddenly in a relative blink of the eye become the polar opposite.
So, Freeney joins Peyton, Carcon and company in Miami then
A 32 year old one trick pony (pass rush only) who's going to need to play on turf for maximum effectiveness is not likely to command much in trade and is probably going to have to adjust his contract to get a trade of any kind.
Why would anyone trade more than a 5th for Freeney? He's due a $14 mil salary that the Colts will never pay. So he's just going to get released.
When the JETS tagged and traded Abraham he was coming off injury and on his second tag and stated flat out he would not play another down for the JETS and the JETS didn't have the cap space to keep him into the season without gutting the roster. Atlanta traded a first for him. Wouldn't trade their original one as it was a top ten. So they traded picks with Denver and then traded the lower first to NY for Abraham and signed him to a 6 year deal.
Freeney wouldn't restructure to help Colts out...wonder if he'd restructure to play with another team. He could help NE out quite a lot.
He wants to play 4-3 DE only though. I think a team that loses out in the Mario Williams sweepstakes might give the Colts a 2nd-3rd for him.
Bills? They need a passrusher.
Considering his cap hit.I have a hard time picturing someone coughing up a 2nd for him. The Colts could sure use a couple of extra firsts and a second.
The Colts are doing one of those good ole fashioned rebuildS...you know, where your entire teams sucks for a while and then slowly, slowly, maybe sees the light. They proved utterly inept at the whole rebuilding on the fly thing.
His cap hit means nothing to a team trading for him. The dead cap ($5M) remains with the Colts and the $14M in salary just becomes part of the signing bonus or guaranteed money on his new deal they sign him to. That said, he may not cooperate with a trade by negotiating a reasonable deal with a new team unless he's getting what he wants from the new team. Then it gets into pissing match territory where he's not traded until most of the FA money is dried up and he knows they can cut him in August and he possibly has to settle for a prove it deal with someone who wouldn't have been his first choice at the 11th hour because he won't have been in that teams offseason and TC.
The Colts have tons of cap room now so they can hang on to him all off season if they choose to. It then just becomes a matter of do you want a potentially, increasingly unhappy camper hanging out in the locker room of a rebuilding team all off season or do you want to move on and potentially use the $14M in cap savings to persue a younger target or multiple ones.
Most teams suck at rebuilding because it can't be done on the fly. Retooling can, but even that takes the courage of your convictions and most HC's and FO's begin to lose those as the losses pile up and their names get mentioned on hot seat lists...
The Colts never ever tried to, which was the unique thing about them... Polian seemed content after that first ring to just go through the motions of fielding a team and assuming Peyton would get them the division and into the playoffs. He was on gravey train time, passing the torch to his idiot kid mattered more to him than insuring Irsay had a blueprint for consistency beyond Manning. And when it didn't pan out even in 2010 as the rot was beginning to show, he blamed the players he cobbled together for just not performing well enough. And began purging long term coaches and scouts who begged to differ. No accountability from a FO who fielded 19 players the year after their SB win who had never played a snap in the NFL because what he was paying to maintain a top heavy roster of select Polian favorites wouldn't allow for quality depth.
It took 2-14 in a Manningless season to expose Polian for the fraud he had become. And Irsay had to do something at that point. What he did was a product of landing the #1 pick on the heels of Manning's unique injury. Not sure he'd have had the stones to move on from Polian let alone Manning otherwise. Now at least he is saying all the right things and initially doing them. The test will come however when they suck with Luck instead of for him. How long Irsay can tweet his way around growing discontent from a fan base that has been spoiled for a decade plus and stay the course will determine whether or not they can do a genuine rebuild. That and whether Luck pans out. Because those are beyond painful and often for 2-3 years which is the average lifespan of new GM/HC tandems. Those guys start to get nervous and want to win because they don't want to do all the heavy lifting just to see some other guy land in their place just in time to reap the rewards.
It's kind of like in Denver where they'd have been better off from a long term and business standpoint to suck for Luck too, but Fox couldn't bring himself to leave any potential stone unturned to avoid losing because unlike Elway he's on a short leash. And that resulted in Elway finding himself seemingly stuck with a QB he has no real use for because his randomness just insures you never land the guy you covet. While your fan base fawns over him like a savior. Which is why Manning was in Denver last night... If Elway can't draft a legit #1 QB this season or next, he wants the one veteran QB he believes he could win it all with...who has the cache to make the fanbase forget all this Tebow nonsense.
The Colts were the equal of the Patriots in terms of keeping the team stocked, and had actually kept it going for a longer period of time, right up until Polian started missing on his high draft picks. That, along with the transfer of power from Polian to Jr. Polian, began a decline which eventually led to the housecleaning.
That's not really much different than what was going on in New England until the Patriots turned it around in the draft room. The biggest differences were in the timing of the season long injury to the elite QBs and in the quality of the backup QBs.
A lot of what you say is true. I think there are other factors for Manning to go to Denver. In essence they wrer rebuilding when Elway came on board last year. The Defense is starting to dominate and is fairly young other than Champ. But you can rebuild gracefully with the addition of some pieces if they are not cost heavy and still blend in younger guys. My thoughts:
Fox is a defense coach, Manning offends no one if he comes in an demand the system be changed to play "Peyton Ball". I do think if Elway is smart and his CAP isn't blown to bits by signing Manning, he should sign some security blankets for Peyton. Pro Football Focus who does a great job with Team needs suggest this:
Primary Need: Quarterback
Secondary Need: Center
Thereâ€™s no way around this, J.D. Walton is the worst center in football. Bad as a rookie (-16.3), Walton was literally twice as bad in his sophomore season (-32.9), casting him adrift at the bottom of our center rankings by a distance. Walton surrendered four sacks on the year and his 23 total pressures allowed tied him for the second-worst mark in the league for centersâ€“a particularly bad note for a player in the middle of the line that often gets help. One of the reasons the Broncos found everything an uphill battle on offense was the play of the interior, which was at its worst in the very middle in the shape of Walton. They need a major upgrade regardless of who is at center.
Who better to go to Denver to do the new line calls than Jeff Saturday F.A.? Decker and Thomas can be made stars by Manning, but Royal is a F.A. (Pats anyone? Punt and K.O. and perhaps a WR upgrade over Branch and Ocho. He's bigger than Branch, can play outside at 5'10" and 185, he's only 25 and has been ignored the last couple years after 91 receptions in 2008. He runs a 4.39 40 so there is your deep threat is you play him outside."Mercurial speed. ... Game-changing big-play threat capable of going the distance every time he touches the ball. ... Good quickness off the snap and has the agility, strength and vertical speed to challenge defenders with a variety of routes. ... Can track the ball over his shoulder. ... At his best with the ball in his hands, as he can make defenders look foolish with his ability to change directions and acceleration") but this is for another discussion.
The Broncos just lost their back up TE Green for some games in 2012 because of something he denies he took, so why not bring in comfortable Dallas Clark who just became an FA? The last piece would be Reggie Wayne across from Decker and a very talented Demaryius Thomas who are both young? McGahee is certainly a better back than Adai and perhaps on par with James, so Peyton is stepping into a team that makes sense and the General Manage is a member of the "Quarterback club".
So the dumping of Manning, Saturday, Wayne and Clark, who all might have a year or two left of good ball, works for Elway. Elways' rebuild method is helped by the Colts rebuild method.
As far as Tebow, why does everyone hate him? I wish my Daughters marry someone like him. I wish I had the nads to have his faith. He is the real deal, this is not an act. He is blessed with charisma and why dump him. He's only 24 and if you can get him to study the way Manning prepares, learn defenses and tendencies and become less erratic, you might have a polished QB to take over when Manning leaves in a couple years. He is also insurance. If one QB won't whine and ***** about being 2nd for now, it's Tebow. His arm, strength or leadership is not the problem. It's anal pores who hate him because he is a Christian try to lessen his value, and he has never once attacked those who have attacked him.
Why not have a package of plays for Tebow on a goal line situation? What if Manning gets injured. Who are you banking on to go in and at least make positive plays? He is not perfect but he overcomes many things.
I thing that Elway feels success breeds success. Perhaps he feels, Lets get some more of our 2012 and 2013 picks developed, because none of those Vets cost me my picks, and because of these added Vets, we don't have to throw the kids off the deep end as the rebuilding in Indy has to be. None of those x-Indys guys should break the bank other than Peyton. Who knows, in the six hour conversation, maybe Peyton was picking out the "groceries" with a list for Elway? It make sense.
As for the main topic Freeney, he has some skills left but I see the Falcons or even the Eagles as a better fit. Cole is not much bigger, but Freeney and Cole would be a tough tandem. Irsay has decided his method is to clean house. I think the Pats do it better by adding a mix of youth and Vets. You don't have to start from the ground which takes many years.
Toys you shock me with your sense here
But I disagree about they'll keep Tebow, whom I respect. Horse Face hates the kid. Denver therefore should trade him to JAX where he'll sell seats and Denver gets a pick to help protect Manning.
Yeah, people love to play the hate card when other don't see what they see or don't see a progression or fit. Manning wouldn't be happy with either a Tebow package or a lingering Tebow following complicating his tenure in Denver. I imagine that will be part of the whatever it takes equation if he lands there. Jacksonville can hold a psuedo competition between Gabbert and Tebow and then Tim can start and put fannies in seats if nothing else for the next couple of seasons and see if either ever develops to anything more than a random starter.
I have nothing against Tim as a human being. Do find his followers annoying though, about on par with Ocho's and Randy's... Just don't think the guy will ever be a bonefide franchise caliber starting QB in the NFL.
One complication with Freeney has been resolved. He now has an agent, just signed with CAA.
Any team considering trading for him would need to work out a reasonable extension because you don't give up draft picks for a one-year rental.
Also increases the chances that the Colts extend him and drastically lower his cap hit for 2012.
If they keep Mathis/Freeney they only need to acquire a few designated fat guys to clog the middle, like Sione Pouha at reasonable dollars or Paul Soliai at bigger bucks or draft a couple of designated fat guys.
There should be plenty of RBs available this year too in the draft even on Day 3 and it is a good year for offensive linemen so not a bad year to rebuild.
I doesn't say he wouldn't restructure. It says he can't restructure because there is only one year left, so it would have to be an extension. The Colts appear to not be interested in extending him as they chose the younger Mathis instead, and really the new scheme can only include one or the other.
I think the Colts are going to make a great case study in rebuidling and would make for a very interesting debate about how they should go about it.
Clearly they are starting with the QB. Interestingly though, we have seen great QB prospects ruined by being surrounded by crap. David Carr and Joey Harrington come to mind.
If the new braintrust is smart, first they realize they have a free ride of at least 2-3 years to start showing results, and probably 5 to contend.
With the current FA situation there are going to be more players on the market than ever so rebuilding has a lot of options.
The first order or business would be to spend what it takes in picks or cap space to built a complete young OL that will be together for years. I would also pay heavily to get a top OL coach to develop young UDFA or cheap signing backups, like Dante has done here.
It would make a lot of sense to get Luck a Welker of his own, meaning a go to guy who can bail him out and be a 100 catch guy that he can build a rapport with. It doesn't need to be a great WR but a versatile one that is smart and can get open and be reliable.
Defensively, many expect Pagano will try to implement a Raven D, but he coached many other places and only spent one year as DC, and implemented the system other DCs had in place for 15 years. So what identity Pagano wants on defense probably dictates which pieces come first and come most expensively. It would only make sense with the way the league has evolved and his background as a DB coach that he addresses the secondary first, then adds the pass rush talent and run D as resources permit.
The easy answer is build the trenches first. But it seems the way the league has changed that if you start with a 3 year plan to have a QB, OL, top WR that have worked together from day 1 and are top shelf, plus an expensive (draft slot or contract) quality secondary in place from as close to day 1 as possible, then spend the next few years using early picks and FA $$ to fill the surrounding holes, its a sound plan.
This will be interesting to watch, much moreso if they do it right.
Separate names with a comma.