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Initial Thoughts ... (Patriots lose to Arizona Cardinals)


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how about just coming back in general? who did it today? or last february for that matter

Once again, todays games are not the factor that would close the Grand Canyon sized gap between these QBs.
Did Brady miss the kick, or throw 3 picks to cause his team to need to come back?
 
Sure. But not being able to overcome 1 bad call is where the ideas that they deserved to win or didn't deserve to win are both incorrect.
As I said they deserved to be in a close game that could be a win or a loss based upon clutch play, good fortune or uncontrollable factors such as a bounce or the officials.

See, here we part company. It's one thing to dismiss calls that happen early. It's another to dismiss calls that happen at the end of the game.

Then again, I don't consider officials to be these officials to be uncontrollable factors. I consider them to be completely controllable. A real NFL official wouldn't have made that call.
 
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See, you're arguing things that happen in pretty much every game suddenly equal not deserving to win. I don't buy that argument. You don't deserve a win when you come out flat and stay that way, when you benefit from a gift call, you get a lucky bounce, or something like that. That's not what happened today. Today, the lost the player that so many here have been insisting the team is game planning around, had their best receiver seemingly playing at less than 100%, missing their OG1 because he's home on his couch and their OG2 because of injury, and were forced to fight their way out of an early hole.

If they'd won, people would be touting a gritty comeback. Because they lost, their trying to rationalize that loss.

Deus, I don't want to get caught up in the semantics of "deserve". It's obviously subjective, and I've arbitrarily established a high standard. I'm not the universal arbiter of what "deserving" means, so I'm not surprised that others have different interpretations. My guess is that BB holds the team to a pretty high standard, and that he would have been less than thrilled with their execution and performance regardless of whether they managed to pull out a win at the end. I give the team full credit for hanging in and making enough plays to bring the game down to the wire, and I would have been more than willing to take the win if the chips had fallen differently.

I PM'd OTG this morning with what I hoped to see from the Pats out of this game (besides a win, which obviously didn't happen). My list:

mayoclinic said:
1. No signifiant injuries. Folks will get banged up. But it's important to stay healthy and not have any major loses.

I would call Hernandez' injury "significant', though we don't yet know how long he'll be out. Obviously, that was outside of the team's control.

mayoclinic said:
2. Focus, intensity, effort and aggression. I loved the energy and intensity last week on both sides of the ball. I want to see the team bring that week after week. I don't want any signs at all that the team is looking past this game towards the Ravens next week (like the Cleveland game in 2010).

Again, with respect to Andy's comment that it's hard to judge intensity from one's TV speed, I just didn't see the same kind of energy that I saw against Tennessee last week.

mayoclinic said:
3. Line play. The DL should dominate against a weak Arizona OL. I want to see utter annihilation of Kolb and the AZ offense. The Arizona defense is another matter, and will be a good challenge for our OL.

The DL dominated, though perhaps not quite as much as I had hoped for. The OL struggled with a good Arizona defense.

mayoclinic said:
4. Offensive diversity. Loved what they did last week. I want to see Welker more involved and more use of draws, screens, and quick passes to the RBs.

I don't think I'm the only poster who felt that the offensive play calling was not up to expectations.

mayoclinic said:
5. Lack of mistakes and turnovers. The Pats need to finish drives, and not make key mistakes with menalties and turnovers. I loved that the OL had no false starts and no holding penalties last week. That kind of mental toughness will go a long way down the stretch.

The offense made a number of mistakes and one major turnover. They failed to score a TD through 3 quarters, which qualifies as failing to finish drives in my book. A number of other drives stalled in Arizona territory without producing points. Penalties and mental mistakes killed a number of drives.

Suffice it to say that I was disappointed with the team's overall performance, and that it didn't meet my expectations going into the game. Arizona obviously had something to do with that, but there was enough to make me feel that the team's overall performance was sub-par, and therefore "not deserving" in my (admittedly subjective) book.
 
Lots of people getting the blame for the loss but no mention of board fave Nate Ebner and the blocked punt he gave up. If we're going to apportion blame, let's share it around equally (or more sensibly, let's just blame the team as a whole rather than picking out individuals).
 
Lots of people getting the blame for the loss but no mention of board fave Nate Ebner and the blocked punt he gave up. If we're going to apportion blame, let's share it around equally (or more sensibly, let's just blame the team as a whole rather than picking out individuals).

Def lots to go round but I'd give more to the coaching staff overall.
 
See, here we part company. It's one thing to dismiss calls that happen early. It's another to dismiss calls that happen at the end of the game.

Then again, I don't consider officials to be these officials to be uncontrollable factors. I consider them to be completely controllable. A real NFL official wouldn't have made that call.

An unquantifiable statement that has distinct uncertainty when one looks back over the last 10 years for poor calls by "real" officials.
 
Off topic, but where was the Cards first round pick Michael Floyd? I saw him on the sideline but didn't see him on the field at all. Not good for a high first rounder.
 
Deus, I don't want to get caught up in the semantics of "deserve". It's obviously subjective, and I've arbitrarily established a high standard...

I hear you. I just have been in enough games like this one that the 'deserve' label annoys me unless it's for clear reasons, and I may even be displaying a tinge of homerism here, although I don't think I am. Both teams played well enough to lose, with some big mistakes over the course of the game.
 
An unquantifiable statement that has distinct uncertainty when one looks back over the last 10 years for poor calls by "real" officials.

Yup. I suspect the superbowl Seahawks make take issue with the assertion.
 
An unquantifiable statement that has distinct uncertainty when one looks back over the last 10 years for poor calls by "real" officials.

That's your take. My take would be that it's educated probability analysis based upon the viewing of hundreds, if not thousands, of games since the 1970's.
 
Good post, but I am going to comment on this one point.
I will never understand how a fan determines what the intensity of the team was from their TV set.
The Patriots didn't make as many plays as they needed to today, but why would we need to guess that they were ambivalent or didn't care to focus?
How come whenever we win, we were great, and its not the other team lack focus and intensity?

From Wes Welker's post game transcript:

On what happened:

“I mean we just didn’t come out there firing. We didn’t have a great week of practice and coach made a point of that, that we needed to almost play some catch up. We really didn’t do the things necessary to come away with a win, especially early. We’ve got to start faster than that and come out and play from ahead and do things the way we need to.”

On what he saw during practice that lead him to believe that:

Just a lot of mental errors and things like that, and guys not doing their assignments and doing their job. We talked about the different things that they did defensively and the type of players they had and the people we had to control, and we just didn’t do a very good job of that.”

Patriots vs Cardinals: Wes Welker's PostGame Press Conference :Ian's New England Patriots Blog

That's pretty consistent with the "lack of focus and intensity" that I personally observed.
 
I hear you. I just have been in enough games like this one that the 'deserve' label annoys me unless it's for clear reasons, and I may even be displaying a tinge of homerism here, although I don't think I am. Both teams played well enough to lose, with some big mistakes over the course of the game.

I would heartily agree that "both teams played well enough to lose". The Cardinals probably outperformed expectations but failed to put the game away when they had a chance and made at least 2 major errors (the touchback and the fumble) that let the Pats back into the game.

I would note that Mike Reiss commented:

The Cardinals entered as heavy underdogs, but generally outplayed the Patriots despite giving them a last-second chance to win on a Ryan Williams fumble as they were attempting to run out the clock.

Rapid Reaction: Cardinals 20, Patriots 18 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

And Wes Welker in his post game transcript commented that "We really didn’t do the things necessary to come away with a win". I find it hard to say that the Pats clearly "deserved" to win if they didn't do the things necessary and if a national reportor of Reiss' integrity felt that they were "generally outplayed". Obviously, they had their chances, and they made enough plays to bring the game down to the last play, but not enough plays to win it.
 
Becoming a habit? From the team that wins more often than any other?
Please explain.
I think what you really mean is on the rare occassions that the Patriots rule, it is now a habit for your to categorize it a choke.

Sorry mate, missing the game winning field goal 20 yards to the left is a choke.
 
See, here we part company. It's one thing to dismiss calls that happen early. It's another to dismiss calls that happen at the end of the game.

Then again, I don't consider officials to be these officials to be uncontrollable factors. I consider them to be completely controllable. A real NFL official wouldn't have made that call.

But they still had the opportunity to win the game despite the call.
And 'real NFL refs' miss an awful lot of calls too.
 
That's your take. My take would be that it's educated probability analysis based upon the viewing of hundreds, if not thousands, of games since the 1970's.

Actually that is factual as your statement isn't quantifiable as well as the real refs in fact have made poor or ticky tack or borderline calls late in the game.

The post is actually your take. And while I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion, I just don't think it can be determined with sufficient certainty.
 
Sorry mate, missing the game winning field goal 20 yards to the left is a choke.

That wasn't the point. The point was that you said it is becoming a habit.
If my kid backs my car into a telephone pole after a 10 year perfect driving record and I say 'this is becoming a habit' my defense to that claim cannot reasonably be 'it happened didnt it'
That is perfectly analagous to what you are saying here.
 
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