idle thoughts.....and so it begins

[shmessy]

Not to nit pick but saying solder will take the blocking TE role is a bit missleading. Crumpler was great last year because of the fact he also went out there and caught passes... yes blocking was his strength but you also had to assign someone to cover him or he would catch the easy completion. Now unless you are saying solder might catch some balls this year, he is really just another lineman who would take crumps blocking assignment but is no true threat to ever catch a pass.

Solder came into college as a TE:

Nate Solder Biography - CUBuffs.com - Official Athletics Web site of the University of Colorado

2007 (Fr.-RS)-He played in all 13 games including the Independence Bowl, making four regular season starts. He was utilized on special teams and on offense, where he was primarily as a blocking tight end. He did catch three passes for 50 yards, a 16.7 average, with all the grabs coming in the Miami-Ohio game. He earned seven special team points, on the strength of three tackles, one inside-the-20, and three knockdown blocks. He added 25 pounds to his frame since arriving at CU, but it's not affected his speed.

2006 (Fr.)-Redshirted; practiced all fall at tight end, and was a key scout team performer. His teammates selected him for the Special Teams Scout Award acknowledging his effort and commitment.

HIGH SCHOOL-Rivals.com ranked him as the No. 45 tight end in the nation as the eighth overall prospect in the state of Colorado........ He was a two-year starter at tight end and middle linebacker........As a senior, he had 31 receptions for 513 yards and eight touchdowns (and ran one reverse for a short game in the state playoffs), ......... He caught 24 balls for 276 yards and four scores as a .......... As a sophomore, he had seven catches for 110 yards and one touchdown........ He saw spot action late in the year on the varsity as a freshman. For his career, he caught 62 passes for 899 yards and 13 touchdowns, while recording 256 tackles (173 solo, 83 assists) with six quarterback sacks and six fumble recoveries......... He also lettered three times in basketball at center, averaging 15 points and eight rebounds per game as a senior when BVHS was the league and district champ, and lettered twice in baseball, playing first base and pitching (right-hander).

----------------------

Also as noted in this under Armour Sports Science clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv3qhRJB-A0 , his 32 inch vertical leap is 4 inches more than the average vertical in the NBA, yet he is heavier than every player except Shaq (at the time of filming, Shaq was not yet retired).

So, in summation, I believe there IS INDEED a possibility of this guy catching a pass or two.

 

[Fencer]

I realize practices have been closed for a while, but is there any evidence Solder has practiced at #3 TE?

I'd say "getting enough reps at tackle is hard enough", but that's a bit misleading. Once both starting tackles are available to take reps in practicing sub packages, he can be on the field with them at #3 TE.

I also note that there are 3-TE sets and there are 3-TE sets. If you're on the goal line, there WILL be somebody nearby for you to hit; pass catching ability is quite optional. Midfield that might be a little less clear.

I also note that if Dan Klecko can catch short NFL passes when wide open, so no doubt can Nate Solder.

 

[Prefect]

d. Henne has the best passing options he's had since he's been there. For all his problems Brandon Marshall is a match up nightmare and STILL one of the best WRs in the league. Jarvis Best is a productive guy who always has played well against us. He makes the tough catches that would make him a favorite if he were one of ours. And Reggie Bush, say what you will, is an excellent 3rd down back.

Henne had pretty much the opposite luck of Sanchez when it came to interceptions. While Sanchez lucked out with many dropped picks all year, Henne only had one pick dropped. Odds say both should regress to average is such stats much like how teams don't tend to stay lucky recovering or losing fumbles from year to year.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Four Downs: AFC East

At Football Outsiders, one of the statistics our game charters compile is the number of times a quarterback threw an interception that the defender dropped. Although there are still a handful of games uncharted, our numbers currently have Sanchez leading the league with 15 dropped interceptions. No other quarterback has more than nine (our current count for Carson Palmer). So while Sanchez seemingly improved by cutting his interceptions down to 13, the reality is that he threw another 13 passes that easily could have been picked had defenders held onto the ball. The argument for Sanchez's improvement was largely based on the idea that he was playing smarter and limiting his turnovers, but the only thing that Sanchez really improved was his luck.

Who was the unluckiest quarterback this year? Chad Henne. Henne threw 19 interceptions on the season, but he only threw one dropped interception. That's not going to happen again. Henne remains a talented player, and the odds of his experiencing a rebound next season are pretty good. Before GM Jeff Ireland decides to blow a first-round pick on Jake Locker or Cam Newton, he may want to consider investing in more linemen and receivers to help out the guy who is already on the roster.

 

[patfanken]

I realize practices have been closed for a while, but is there any evidence Solder has practiced at #3 TE?

I'd say "getting enough reps at tackle is hard enough", but that's a bit misleading. Once both starting tackles are available to take reps in practicing sub packages, he can be on the field with them at #3 TE.

I also note that there are 3-TE sets and there are 3-TE sets. If you're on the goal line, there WILL be somebody nearby for you to hit; pass catching ability is quite optional. Midfield that might be a little less clear.

I also note that if Dan Klecko can catch short NFL passes when wide open, so no doubt can Nate Solder.

Since run blocking and pass blocking would comprise 90% of Solder's job if he were to be the "blocking TE, there would be very little change in any of his techniques from what he is doing at T. Really the only routes that would be necessary for him to learn would be the 5 yd out and the seam/hook.

This is a very doable thing. It not only wouldn't hurt his development, it would help in in the long run

 

[ausbacker]

Since run blocking and pass blocking would comprise 90% of Solder's job if he were to be the "blocking TE, there would be very little change in any of his techniques from what he is doing at T. Really the only routes that would be necessary for him to learn would be the 5 yd out and the seam/hook.

This is a very doable thing. It not only wouldn't hurt his development, it would help in in the long run

Wouldn't it be interesting to see a jumbo set of;

Hernandez     Light - Mankins - Koppen - Waters - Vollmer - Solder
                                                                    Gronkowski
                                  Brady
                                Connolly
                               Green-Ellis

 

[Fencer]

Regarding the sudden lack of depth: If one ever does a "Predict the 53" exercise, it's obvious that some positions will wind up scary light. Indeed, at most position groups one goes into the season with the ability to withstand at most 1 or 2 injuries, and with either a lack of proven veterans or else a lack of developing youth.

The DL has a bunch of guys who are proven vets, and enough of them that the question marks in their conditioning or adaptability to the Patriots are outweighed -- as it were -- by sheer numbers. But the developing youth was all let go. At LB there's no age problem, but the "proven" part is very questionable. And so it goes.

 

[Water Boy]

Nice idle thoughts as always Ken. Predicting the 53 man roster is like predicting a BB draft. Its frigging impossible and defies logic.


I think the Pats are dangerously thin at Safety and TE and I'm pissed that Eric Moore got the axe.

 

[bagwell368]

Nice idle thoughts as always Ken. Predicting the 53 man roster is like predicting a BB draft. Its frigging impossible and defies logic.


I think the Pats are dangerously thin at Safety and TE and I'm pissed that Eric Moore got the axe.

I think BB had a problem deciding what DL's to cut, so he kept an extra one on the roster, as soon as the first serious injury to a DL comes across, look for a TE (Crumpler ?), or S (??) to be added. No way BB was going to be able to cut any of our DL's and not lose them.

If it's not a TE, then Crumpler may be a shadow option later if needed, and Mills to.

At S, with Sanders and Meri signed elsewhere, that means there are two other S's cooling their heels someplace that could get a call from BB.

I'm not sure I believe the CB count either. Maybe Butler will be dealt, or Dowling will be lined up at S...?

Ever play go or chess? Or write comprehensive software suites? Plans within plans within plans.

 

[Peachhead]

In response to point 7a of the original post. I would much rather Solder master the LT position (and he ain't close) before BB moves him all around the line or puts him in as a blocking TE in some situations.

I don't think Solder is dumb or anything, but first things first. Every minute you spend teaching him and him practicing the techniques of another position is a minute you take away from his development as a LT. And you don't draft a reserve OG/blocking TE/swing tackle at #17 overall. Hopefully you draft a stud LT.

 

[jsull87]

Solder came into college as a TE:

Nate Solder Biography - CUBuffs.com - Official Athletics Web site of the University of Colorado

2007 (Fr.-RS)-He played in all 13 games including the Independence Bowl, making four regular season starts. He was utilized on special teams and on offense, where he was primarily as a blocking tight end. He did catch three passes for 50 yards, a 16.7 average, with all the grabs coming in the Miami-Ohio game. He earned seven special team points, on the strength of three tackles, one inside-the-20, and three knockdown blocks. He added 25 pounds to his frame since arriving at CU, but it's not affected his speed.

2006 (Fr.)-Redshirted; practiced all fall at tight end, and was a key scout team performer. His teammates selected him for the Special Teams Scout Award acknowledging his effort and commitment.

HIGH SCHOOL-Rivals.com ranked him as the No. 45 tight end in the nation as the eighth overall prospect in the state of Colorado........ He was a two-year starter at tight end and middle linebacker........As a senior, he had 31 receptions for 513 yards and eight touchdowns (and ran one reverse for a short game in the state playoffs), ......... He caught 24 balls for 276 yards and four scores as a .......... As a sophomore, he had seven catches for 110 yards and one touchdown........ He saw spot action late in the year on the varsity as a freshman. For his career, he caught 62 passes for 899 yards and 13 touchdowns, while recording 256 tackles (173 solo, 83 assists) with six quarterback sacks and six fumble recoveries......... He also lettered three times in basketball at center, averaging 15 points and eight rebounds per game as a senior when BVHS was the league and district champ, and lettered twice in baseball, playing first base and pitching (right-hander).

----------------------

Also as noted in this under Armour Sports Science clip Sport Science: Nate Solder - YouTube , his 32 inch vertical leap is 4 inches more than the average vertical in the NBA, yet he is heavier than every player except Shaq (at the time of filming, Shaq was not yet retired).

So, in summation, I believe there IS INDEED a possibility of this guy catching a pass or two.

Yes i understand he was a te at highschool and early in college and he could pop in on goal line situations with a vrable like moment. I think you mis interperated my post... yes he is capable of catching a pass... so is mankins or vollmer or brady.

The point i was making is, Crumpler was every time he went out there a threat of catching the ball (he also had been running routes all his career, some years at a pro bowl level). Solder, hasn't ran one single route in training camp. My point was saying solder will take crumplers role is a bit missleading as crumpler being out there in a 2/3 TE set means that you have to have a defense for him catching a ball 1 and blocking 2. If you see solder out there you can safely assume that he will be blocking on that play.

It's great to get all of his athletic videos and stats but that really doesn't have much baring on the discussion of him taking over crumplers role as i can put good money on Solder not catching a single ball this year outside the red zone.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I am excited to see this new defense. One thing is clear to me, BB is fully committing to this aggressive scheme once he cut loose both of our previous starting safeties. Last year Chung and S. Brown often were used to cover the slot, but sanders and merriweather almost exclusively covered the deep half of the field. The best part of merriweather's game was covering the deep ball and they let him go so that tells me the safeties this year are going to be more aggressive. But it does expose us to the potential onslaught of deep balls completed against us more so than in recent years. I feel that our defense is going to be feast or famine with no in-between.

 

[bagwell368]

In response to point 7a of the original post. I would much rather Solder master the LT position (and he ain't close) before BB moves him all around the line or puts him in as a blocking TE in some situations.

I don't think Solder is dumb or anything, but first things first. Every minute you spend teaching him and him practicing the techniques of another position is a minute you take away from his development as a LT. And you don't draft a reserve OG/blocking TE/swing tackle at #17 overall. Hopefully you draft a stud LT.

Well, as a slight nitpicK: Every minute he plays or trains at another spot (OG) besides LT is NOT a total waste/no-op W.R.T. LT. OTOH, I agree that he would advance quicker if the TE was dropped and G was dropped or lessened.

I do think he needs to work out at RT a lot. If Light goes down, or just can't play after say game 3, are you going to plug Solder into LT right away? I would think Vollmer who as played LT well in the past and is a vet in this league would be moved to LT, and Solder put at RT.

Solder has looked very good enough times and in enough situations that the Solder is a bum/bust club attitude mystifies me (not you Peachhead). Looking forward to when Solder bumps Light out of the way on skill, not due to injury.

 

[aluminum seats]

Your post is far more negative than is warranted, considering the talent on this roster.

The first two preseason games showed what the Pats will be able to do--after that, Belichick totally pulled in the reins. Vanilla is an exotic flavor compared to what the Pats showed the last two games.

I'm not worried about the Miami game in the slightest.

 

[Fencer]

In response to point 7a of the original post. I would much rather Solder master the LT position (and he ain't close) before BB moves him all around the line or puts him in as a blocking TE in some situations.

I don't think Solder is dumb or anything, but first things first. Every minute you spend teaching him and him practicing the techniques of another position is a minute you take away from his development as a LT. And you don't draft a reserve OG/blocking TE/swing tackle at #17 overall. Hopefully you draft a stud LT.

Point of order -- it's not just LT. Solder is also the game-day backup to Vollmer.

 

[ralmat55]

here is the one thing I truly worry about. TOUGHNESS. As it's been noted on many occasions, some where along the line, our offense suddenly became the Colts....so did the D. Back during the superbowl era, the Pats were a team of extraordinary toughness, both physically, AND mentally, regardless of the various degrees of athletic talent they had on the field.

When you played the Pats, win or lose, you knew you were in a football game the next day. IIRC there was a stat that showed, that during that period (2001-2005) Teams who played the Pats USUALLY (again, win or lose) did not fair well the next week. I'm not sure of the exact numbers but they were revealing.

We haven't seen that kind of physical toughness in several years...nor the mental toughness. Too many teams that blew out to a quick lead, and then held on for dear life at the end of the ballgame. No enough overcoming adversity late in games. Too much cruising along all fat and happy and then being smacked down when your in the playoffs and there is NO room for error.

IMHO in the Playoffs, the talent is pretty even. Usually they are ALL high quality teams. What separates teams on that stage is MENTAL toughness. A quality the Pats haven't shown the last 2 seasons.

Hopefully BB is building that quality into this team. Building for the PLAYOFFS

Amen, brother Ken. My hope is being more aggressive on defense and a greater emphasis on running the ball on offense will bring back the toughness needed to win it all.

 

[shmessy]

Yes i understand he was a te at highschool and early in college and he could pop in on goal line situations with a vrable like moment. I think you mis interperated my post... yes he is capable of catching a pass... so is mankins or vollmer or brady.

The point i was making is, Crumpler was every time he went out there a threat of catching the ball (he also had been running routes all his career, some years at a pro bowl level). Solder, hasn't ran one single route in training camp. My point was saying solder will take crumplers role is a bit missleading as crumpler being out there in a 2/3 TE set means that you have to have a defense for him catching a ball 1 and blocking 2. If you see solder out there you can safely assume that he will be blocking on that play.

It's great to get all of his athletic videos and stats but that really doesn't have much baring on the discussion of him taking over crumplers role as i can put good money on Solder not catching a single ball this year outside the red zone.

You wrote in Post #18 (the one is responded to), and I quote:
----------------------------
"Now unless you are saying solder might catch some balls this year, he is really just another lineman who would take crumps blocking assignment but is NO TRUE THREAT TO EVER CATCH A BALL." (caps mine)
-------------------

Please tell me where I "misinterpreted" your post.

 

[ivanvamp]

Nice read as always ken, the only thing i would disagree with strongly is that it is a must win game.

It's all about making the playoffs and as a rule you only need 10 wins to do that.

Tell that to the 2008 Patriots (11-5). :bricks:

But in response to the O.P., which was a great read, I would offer a few thoughts....

(1) I love how this D-line looks at this point. There will be injuries (probably more than we'd like, given the relative ages of some of these guys), and that will reduce the depth, but my goodness, there are some playmakers there. A starting unit of Ellis, Wilfork, Haynesworth, and Carter....it's not easy to find a better all-around four-man front than that. Wilfork and Haynesworth alone both command double-teams, and that leaves Ellis and Carter one-on-one, unless they keep a TE or RB in. But that leaves gaps for blitzers like Mayo.

(2) The age factor on the D-line doesn't concern me in the long run at all. Here are their ages:

Anderson - 28
Brace - 24
Carter - 32
Cox - 25
Deadrick - 24
Ellis - 34
Warren - 33
Wright - 29
Haynesworth - 30
Love - 24
Pryor - 25
Wilfork - 29

Average age: 30.6. But they have a lot of quality bodies and will rotate them a lot, so I don't see them getting too worn down. I mean, 11 defensive linemen - great for depth (for the long season) and for keeping guys fresh during a game.

(3) I echo the sentiments of some here who question the safety and tight end situations. I really thought Yeatman would stick and was disappointed he didn't. I think one of the best things the Pats would be doing this year would be coming out in 2 TE sets, which allows them to either pound away (if the D goes small) or go pass-happy (if the D goes big). But if you only have 2 TE on the roster, you can't go 2 TE sets very often, I wouldn't think...injuries come into play too easily.

As for safety, I'm ok with Meriweather being gone, but I have questions about the safeties that remain. I love Chung and have hopes for Barrett. But the depth is not there. I would assume a couple of the CB could slide into the safety position in a pinch, but lets hope that doesn't happen.

(4) I tried to make the case after last season's playoff loss that the Patriots needed to be more balanced on offense, not because it's inherently better to run the ball than throw it, but because if you really only play offense one way, and the other team gears up to stop that, and you can't play it a different way, there's a good chance you are going to lose. I think this team has four quality RB that each presents a different look to the defense, and has the ability to hammer away on the ground. I am concerned about the TE situation, though I absolutely love both Gronk and Hernandez. I'm intrigued by what some here have suggested in having Solder play some TE, but again, I'd like to have seen Yeatman kept. Oh well.

(5) I think the Pats go 13-3 and get the #1 seed in the AFC again. What happens in the playoffs, who knows. But this season will be a great ride. They'll lose one to the Jets, one to an NFC East team, and one game that none of us can believe they'd lose (like Cleveland last year), but heading into the playoffs they'll be one of the favorites to go all the way.

Time to bring home Lombardi #4.