Hypothetical-Where Would You Draft Jaylon Smith?

[ViperGTS]

You have seriously gone off the rails this year..
Yes, they have a LT signed for 2017. Solder.
And, since you missed it, the Patriots currently have only $95.5M committed to players in 2017. And the cap should be north of $165M. They'll probably keep $7M free for injury stuff, but that still means north of $60M to sign players.. If you think that won't be enough to sign Collins, Hightower, Butler, and Ryan, then you really shouldn't bother to get into the conversations..

Furthermore, Comparing the Pats cap situation to that of Denver's is ludicrous. Especially since you can't be bothered to look at the entire picture.

I will pacify you. Danny Trevathian is worse than Collins and he got a contract with the Bears for an initial 6.3 cap hit. Collins would get about 1-2 mill more per year CAP hit wise. Malik Jackson (Keuchly is closer I'm using a major D free agent from this ear) has a cap hit of 10 next year and jumping to 15 the next year. I would imagine Hightower would be in line for another 10-11 cap hit from some team. Finally Butler. I'll use Patrick Peterson as an example. His first year CAP hit was 6.3 back in 2014. It will be 2017. So I'll got with his second year CAP hit of 14. If he (Butler) develops this year that's what you are looking at. Maybe a tad under. Say 12.5.

The cap goes up, the more the contracts are. So, by my rough calculations you are committing 31-33 million to those 3. I think both High and Collins' cap numbers I gave are somewhat low too. So add another 2-3 mil possibly that leave you with 20-25m to sign everyone else. I didn't even get into Ryan. Or the dozen of other FAs this team has, as I posted a link to in an earlier post. All the FAs they signed this year? One year deals. If any stay then thst will uptick their cap hits with new contracts. Plus, will they redo Gonks contract? Edeleman? Maybe their cap hits go up by 3-5.

Point is the whole roster needs to be looked at. Sure seems like a lot until you start seeing the deals and start shaking your head. There will be teams with silly money that will pay more than the Pats will (hello Aquib) so there's no shame in that. I predicted they will sign 2. Maybe they do 3 but I don't see how that will be possible. If they were negotiating with themselves then fine. I bet the Dolphins thought it was a no brainer they would keep Vernon. How did that work out?

BB will do what's best for the team. What anyone here says doesn't matter. This is what I feel. You are no more right or wrong than me, but keep up the insults, big boy.

 

[varjao]

I'm ok using one of the 7th's , nothing higher than that. 7th's don't usually make the roster anyway.

 

[ViperGTS]

I think we've seen plenty of examples where Belichick had money to spend but passed on signing key players. It's going to be about whether or not Belichick agrees with the value and current market. He isn't going to pay Jamie Collins 11-12m dollars a year just because there's cap space available.

Hell, Belichick barely retained Randy Moss only a year after he set the WR record and scored 23 touchdowns. He actually had to take a hometown discount to stay by passing up better offers, and what he got (9m a year) was certainly in line with the market for top end WRs.

We've seen guys like Ty Law, Asante Samuel, and even Darrelle Revis leave because he didn't agree with their demands. I don't believe that's it's realistic to assume that players will be kept just because there's money available, as there are other variables in play. It'd be great to keep all 3, but I'm only expecting to keep 2.

Shhhh. You are off the rails. You have no idea of the facts so therefore stay out of conversations that only adults can have. You make too much sense!

 

[Ivan]

If I'm not mistaken Butler won't be an unrestricted free agent until after the 2017 season and a lot can happen between now and then. He's had one very good year and is no where near the stature of guys like Revis and Peterson yet. So right now the focus needs to stay on Hightower and Collins as they are the impending free agents for 2017. Hightower is the key imo, it they can get him in the 50-60 million range then they should offer Collins a similar deal. If Collins refuses the deal then tag him and revisit it after 2017. If Butler wants the money early offer him 4 for 32 with 20 guaranteed, if he won't take it then try again in 2017 and if that fails tag him for a year, that gives them 3 more seasons with him and he will be closing in on 30 by then, and that will make the numbers come down. So really it they can get Hightower done they will keep them together for at least two more seasons, possibly longer. They don't have to sign all three for 80 million apiece this coming year, that's just fans panicking. If they sign Hightower and the other two don't deal they can use the 50+ million in call space and the next two drafts to find their replacements and continue building the team. Belichick had around 15 million to use this Free agent period and has the best free agency in football, I can't imagine what he could do with 70 million. For the next few years it will still be Belichick, Brady, and a really good cap situation so I'm not worried at all and an in fact looking forward to it.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think we've seen plenty of examples where Belichick had money to spend but passed on signing key players. It's going to be about whether or not Belichick agrees with the value and current market. He isn't going to pay Jamie Collins 11-12m dollars a year just because there's cap space available.

Hell, Belichick barely retained Randy Moss only a year after he set the WR record and scored 23 touchdowns. He actually had to take a hometown discount to stay by passing up better offers, and what he got (9m a year) was certainly in line with the market for top end WRs.

We've seen guys like Ty Law, Asante Samuel, and even Darrelle Revis leave because he didn't agree with their demands. I don't believe that's it's realistic to assume that players will be kept just because there's money available, as there are other variables in play. It'd be great to keep all 3, but I'm only expecting to keep 2.

Sorry, Supa. The Patriots have never had $65M is free cap space during the Belichick era. Nor have they ever had 3-4 elite players on defense.

Your claim that the "barely" retained Randy Moss is ridiculous. Moss wanted to stay because he wanted to be with this team. It's funny that he barely lasted 18 months after that contract was signed..

Ty Law was let go because his contract was significantly higher than market value and was coming off a career threatening injury.

Asante Samuel was walked because the Eagles paid significantly more than the Pats were offering and the Pats didn't have the cap space. Not to mention that Asante seemed to be becoming issue in the locker-room.

Darelle Revis? Really? With a cap hit of $25Million if he were to have stayed? WOW. You are really grasping at straws there. Especially since the Pats didn't have that much cap space. Imagine what last year would have been like if they'd kept Revis? With all those injuries..

 

[DaBruinz]

Shhhh. You are off the rails. You have no idea of the facts so therefore stay out of conversations that only adults can have. You make too much sense!

Unlike you, Supa hasn't been a jag-off the entire off-season making ridiculous after ridiculous remarks. You've been called out by so many people in regards to your posts being so out of whack it's been amusing.

But if you actually care to step up and debunk what I said above instead of just marking disagree and not bothering to answer why, feel free. It will be interesting to see how far your understanding of the situation here and the situation in Denver really goes.. BTW, make sure you find out how much Cap space Denver had entering this off-season..

 

[JPPT1974]

A lot of players that are great on the field. But a cancer off it!

 

[ViperGTS]

Unlike you, Supa hasn't been a jag-off the entire off-season making ridiculous after ridiculous remarks. You've been called out by so many people in regards to your posts being so out of whack it's been amusing.

But if you actually care to step up and debunk what I said above instead of just marking disagree and not bothering to answer why, feel free. It will be interesting to see how far your understanding of the situation here and the situation in Denver really goes.. BTW, make sure you find out how much Cap space Denver had entering this off-season..

See your first mistake is you think you are smart. Newsflash: You are not. So, by your supposition my posts have been ridiculous. That's your opinion. Look at my ratings. Not exactly terrible and a far, far better percentage than yours. Also, since someone posted the same basic premise as mine, yet you don't take issue with that, yet you do mine is lunacy. Shows who you are. Unbelievable and useless.

All my posts are based upon thought and perception. Again, if you don't agree, don't comment or care. Instead you are the big internet though guy. Bravo. I broke down what I believe are potential cap numbers yet you gloss over that to try to take another shot at me. Just because I see through your internet tough guy my way or the highway persona isn't a reason to go full ******. Yet you do, time and time again. It's actually comical.

 

[supafly]

Sorry, Supa. The Patriots have never had $65M is free cap space during the Belichick era. Nor have they ever had 3-4 elite players on defense.

Your claim that the "barely" retained Randy Moss is ridiculous. Moss wanted to stay because he wanted to be with this team. It's funny that he barely lasted 18 months after that contract was signed..

Ty Law was let go because his contract was significantly higher than market value and was coming off a career threatening injury.

Asante Samuel was walked because the Eagles paid significantly more than the Pats were offering and the Pats didn't have the cap space. Not to mention that Asante seemed to be becoming issue in the locker-room.

Darelle Revis? Really? With a cap hit of $25Million if he were to have stayed? WOW. You are really grasping at straws there. Especially since the Pats didn't have that much cap space. Imagine what last year would have been like if they'd kept Revis? With all those injuries..

I respectfully disagree with some of these examples and we have a difference of opinion on this one, but like you, my fingers are crossed that we'll sign all of the key free agents.

The idea that it goes way beyond available cap space is quite valid, though. There are lots of variables that go into having both team and player agree on a new deal.

For what it's worth, the Pats did not have to absorb a 25m dollar cap hit to keep Revis. They were still in play to sign him (if they wanted) after they refused to pick up the 2nd year option. Like many of our past good players, another team offered more money and we refused to pay that amount, which is certainly a possibility with any of the upcoming free agents, and is my point.

And yes--Randy Moss almost left and stated as much. There were several teams that were interested in paying more money, and the negotiations lasted much longer into free agency than any of us expected. He also was not here for "only 18 months" afterwards. He went into the last year of his 3 year deal and stayed about 2.5 yrs after he signed in Feb/March 2008.

At any rate, like I said, we're both hoping for the same thing, so no use going around in circles. You just happen to believe the odds are higher than I do, that's all, and I totally understand your reasoning.

 

[supafly]

If I'm not mistaken Butler won't be an unrestricted free agent until after the 2017 season and a lot can happen between now and then. He's had one very good year and is no where near the stature of guys like Revis and Peterson yet. So right now the focus needs to stay on Hightower and Collins as they are the impending free agents for 2017. Hightower is the key imo, it they can get him in the 50-60 million range then they should offer Collins a similar deal. If Collins refuses the deal then tag him and revisit it after 2017. If Butler wants the money early offer him 4 for 32 with 20 guaranteed, if he won't take it then try again in 2017 and if that fails tag him for a year, that gives them 3 more seasons with him and he will be closing in on 30 by then, and that will make the numbers come down. So really it they can get Hightower done they will keep them together for at least two more seasons, possibly longer. They don't have to sign all three for 80 million apiece this coming year, that's just fans panicking. If they sign Hightower and the other two don't deal they can use the 50+ million in call space and the next two drafts to find their replacements and continue building the team. Belichick had around 15 million to use this Free agent period and has the best free agency in football, I can't imagine what he could do with 70 million. For the next few years it will still be Belichick, Brady, and a really good cap situation so I'm not worried at all and an in fact looking forward to it.

I'm wondering if a deal that puts money in Butler's pocket right now may not be the best way to go, though?

Assuming that no matter what, his basement money is going to be in the 7-8m dollar range, even if he's "only" similar to guys like Bodden and Arrington. I'm guessing that a 3/25 deal that puts money in his pocket immediately may be worthy of consideration from both parties.

He's certainly not the priority at the moment, but it wouldn't be bad to try and get him out of the way. If we're going to throw around ridiculous top level CB numbers, then I fully agree with you that they should just wait. The problem with that is that it could end up costing much more or pricing him out of our range, altogether.

 

[supafly]

That said I was hoping they would have a huge amount of cap space for 2017 given the number of contracts that run out this year and the needs they will present to fill. It's good to see this confirmed by those who know what they are talking about e.g...Miguel.

It's great to see the available cap space for next year knowing that they'll have options to keep who they choose to retain, but I really don't see it changing Belichick's approach on how he does business.

Some seem to think as though he'll hand over blank checks since he has money available, but he's unlikely to overpay or stray from his value system much more than any other year in my opinion. As long as they keep most of them together, Ill be happy as a fan.

 

[Ivan]

I'm wondering if a deal that puts money in Butler's pocket right now may not be the best way to go, though?

Assuming that no matter what, his basement money is going to be in the 7-8m dollar range, even if he's "only" similar to guys like Bodden and Arrington. I'm guessing that a 3/25 deal that puts money in his pocket immediately may be worthy of consideration from both parties.

He's certainly not the priority at the moment, but it wouldn't be bad to try and get him out of the way. If we're going to throw around ridiculous top level CB numbers, then I fully agree with you that they should just wait. The problem with that is that it could end up costing much more or pricing him out of our range, altogether.

Butler is the best option when it comes to paying early because they control him for 3 years, only one of which it's big money. I would give him 8 for 4 and 20 guaranteed(32 total) and just decrease the offer per year and tag him in the 2018 off-season, which locks him up for 3 If he doesn't take it. I would stop a year and keep the same number as a concession if they wanted that.

 

[Ivan]

It's great to see the available cap space for next year knowing that they'll have options to keep who they choose to retain, but I really don't see it changing Belichick's approach on how he does business.

Some seem to think as though he'll hand over blank checks since he has money available, but he's unlikely to overpay or stray from his value system much more than any other year in my opinion. As long as they keep most of them together, Ill be happy as a fan.

I agree, he will maintain discipline and maximize it, he won't go nuts.

 

[DaBruinz]

See your first mistake is you think you are smart. Newsflash: You are not. So, by your supposition my posts have been ridiculous. That's your opinion. Look at my ratings. Not exactly terrible and a far, far better percentage than yours. Also, since someone posted the same basic premise as mine, yet you don't take issue with that, yet you do mine is lunacy. Shows who you are. Unbelievable and useless.

All my posts are based upon thought and perception. Again, if you don't agree, don't comment or care. Instead you are the big internet though guy. Bravo. I broke down what I believe are potential cap numbers yet you gloss over that to try to take another shot at me. Just because I see through your internet tough guy my way or the highway persona isn't a reason to go full ******. Yet you do, time and time again. It's actually comical.

What's comical is a jag off like yourself relying on "ratings" of the message board to claim how "smart " he is.

Your reading comprehension is atrocious. And I did take issue with the other person's premise. It's as wrong as yours.

Your breakdown was not even half-assed. In fact, it made the Wells Report look factual.

No where did I act Ile the I ternet tough guy. I leave that garbage to people like yourself.

 

[ViperGTS]

What's comical is a jag off like yourself relying on "ratings" of the message board to claim how "smart " he is.

Your reading comprehension is atrocious. And I did take issue with the other person's premise. It's as wrong as yours.

Your breakdown was not even half-assed. In fact, it made the Wells Report look factual.

No where did I act Ile the I ternet tough guy. I leave that garbage to people like yourself.

Here I was thinking after a week you were smart enough not to respond. Furious to be be called out for the truth huh? Just give it up. You and your group of mental midgets would do well to stay away from adult conversations. Why even bother responding a week later?

Because you can't help trying to prove how right and tough you are. You must be a real treat to deal with in real life. So I'm done with you. Comment, disagree do whatever people of your ilk do. You've never put forth anything of much interest anyhow.

DaBruinz internet tough guy.